Seth ZX12r UK
Expert Class
Posts: 238
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posted September 10, 2007 09:29 AM
Extra two Oil squirters on a stroker
Will it adversely affect the main bearing oil pressure?
any other potential problems?
thanks
   
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted September 10, 2007 01:48 PM
First, I am an Idiot and a Nobody, so you should wait to hear from the big guns............but I'll still give my 2 cents.
First a good number of people say it is not needed and have ran just fine without.
I do not believe it will affect oil pressure enough to have an adverse effect on main bearing pressure.
Most believe you will loose about 1-2HP from the oil slingage and also increase your oil temp. (I believe that as well)
With that said, they are on mine..................But I think you need to take into consideration your engine application.
What do most people say why they opt to run them: to help cool a couple of pistons and have some nice misty affect that might aid in a little lube action.
I have a street bike with a little touch of nos that will occasionally see the TexasMile twice a year, the drag strip 3-4 times a year and hopefully a whole lot of Hill Country riding. I live in Central Texas and it is rather warm here in the summer time. So its not too easy to keep a big motor cool in traffic, as we have our fair share here. I have also added other complimentary things to aid in cooling. Plus the juice can heat those pistons a little too. It just might be a mental thing for me though.
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Seth ZX12r UK
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posted September 11, 2007 03:49 AM
TRNorBRN6001 thanks.
Mine will have similar usage...LSR 2-3 times a year about 20 odd runs at each max air temps we get here in the UK are in the low 30'c's on a good year.
Road riding and 1/4's aswell.
You didn't mention if yours is stroked? A or B model? Mines a B.
Be good to hear Doug's or VH's input on this......
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted September 11, 2007 05:05 AM
4.6mm over stroker.
I do believe Doug does not and VH does, but I could be wrong.
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted September 11, 2007 05:07 AM
By the way, I also believe you all have the venue of choice for tarmac LSR.
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Seth ZX12r UK
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posted September 11, 2007 05:40 AM
We have two great venues for LSR Woodbridge in Suffolk & Elvington in Yorkshire, both runways with good surfaces.
There's an Elvington top speed and world wheelie records event on 23/09/2007 current record is 215mph for the wheelies by Ghost Rider who will be running there this year along with the Flying Dutchman who rumour has it will be aiming for 280mph top speed!!
Checkout 200mph.net for updates on the 23rd
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted September 11, 2007 07:35 AM
Yep I have been keeping an eye on you fellas across the pond. Sure would be nice if
we had a 1.5 Mile paved venue here in the States.
Whats impressive though is that 750 GPZ turbo over there!!!!!!!!!
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KZScott
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posted September 11, 2007 07:45 AM
are you talking about Lorcans bike? if so, he was supposed to be building that thing up again, billet block, 904cc........ srry you got me all excited, i dont have anything to contribute to the thread lol
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00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted September 11, 2007 08:20 AM
yep
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Seth ZX12r UK
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Posts: 238
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posted September 12, 2007 10:10 AM
Don't know what Lorcan is currently working on....but I was there when he did 210 on his Gpz...its a quick bike for sure.
It doesn't look like any of the tech gurus are going to post on this thread...
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted September 12, 2007 11:24 AM
Sorry no tech gurus have responded.
If you do decide to do it, just get the right angle or you might miss the gallery.
Keep us up to date on your build and LSR stuff across the pond!
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VincentHill
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posted September 12, 2007 02:46 PM
I agree with Dr. Gary on all points (Including his first line but for me it is true and for him it is being modest!
I think the Oil pressure will be fine and I have a 6 quart oil pan so plenty of Oil to keep things cool and because MORE Heat is removed from the Pistons, the Oil temp climbs IMHO
For that reason I am adding an Air to Oil cooler because I think the Kawasaki Cooler is not only to keep the oil cool, but to keep it warm also and decrease warm up time. That is not a problem on a race bike because you "USUALLY" do not ride them in the winter and sit in traffic where the extra cooler will help! I am installing them myself!
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entropy
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posted September 12, 2007 11:43 PM
I am certainly not a tech guru, but several years ago i put the extra 2 nozzles in. If there was any difference in oil temp or oil pressure i really don't know. Nothing obvious.
Now, several major rebuilds later, my advice to anyone contemplating installation of those nozzles, would be that they are WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY lower in priority than the basic stuff: clearances & cleanliness, tuning, operating procedures.
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Seth ZX12r UK
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posted September 15, 2007 07:10 AM
Thnx for that.
What do you put your rebuilds down to then entropy?
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entropy
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posted September 15, 2007 08:18 PM
quote:
Thnx for that.
What do you put your rebuilds down to then entropy?
I'm doing experiments. Lotsa experiments. 
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dougmeyer
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posted September 15, 2007 09:37 PM
Tech guru response:
Ever since the inception of this site and the myriad discussions we've had, there has been an undertone in my opinions which, I think entropy is mirroring.
Far to much effort is expended on esoteric details before the most basic elements of engine building are addressed.
I think maybe over time entropy has come to agree with me on this, no?
Regarding the question at hand, if you aren't noticing clear evidence of piston crown overheating why would you introduce more oil into the crankcase which can only COST you power?
Doug
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entropy
Moderator
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posted September 16, 2007 05:01 AM
quote:
Tech guru response:
Ever since the inception of this site and the myriad discussions we've had, there has been an undertone in my opinions which, I think entropy is mirroring.
Far to much effort is expended on esoteric details before the most basic elements of engine building are addressed.
I think maybe over time entropy has come to agree with me on this, no?
Regarding the question at hand, if you aren't noticing clear evidence of piston crown overheating why would you introduce more oil into the crankcase which can only COST you power?
Doug
yep,
As I inch up the learning curve, all of my questions and "experiments", show me again and again that the basic stuff is FAR more important than the esoteric stuff.
Trouble is that the list of "basic stuff" is long and a bunch of it is inter-related. None of this chit is easy to do right.
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entropy
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posted September 16, 2007 05:03 AM
quote:
quote:
Tech guru response:
Ever since the inception of this site and the myriad discussions we've had, there has been an undertone in my opinions which, I think entropy is mirroring.
Far to much effort is expended on esoteric details before the most basic elements of engine building are addressed.
I think maybe over time entropy has come to agree with me on this, no?
Regarding the question at hand, if you aren't noticing clear evidence of piston crown overheating why would you introduce more oil into the crankcase which can only COST you power?
Doug
yep, I did listen to Doug 6 years ago, but i just didn't/couldn't appreciate how critical some of the things he was saying are.
As I inch up the learning curve, all of my questions and "experiments", show me again and again that the basic stuff is FAR more important than the esoteric stuff.
Trouble is that the list of "basic stuff" is long and a bunch of it is inter-related. None of this chit is easy to do right as a system.
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VincentHill
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posted September 16, 2007 05:51 AM
 Edited By: VincentHill on 16 Sep 2007 06:53
On the Oil Squirter question, some basic questions were never answered!
Yes, the Oil temp goes up! But has anyone denied that this is from removing MORE Heat from the Piston crown? Has anyone said that an additional Oil Cooler would not cool the Oil back to and below the temps before?
Yes, the Crown Temp is the Key factor and spraying between 150 to 200 SHOT of NOS does create SERIOUS Heat which is what I am doing. SO I need Serious Piston Cooling and Oil Cooling. I carry 6 Quarts of Motul 10 W 40 oil and installing and bypassing the Oil Temp controller and putting in an Oil Cooler My only Consideration is if I am adding an Oil temp thermo controlled valve to control the flow in and out of the cooler.
(WHen I rebuilt my Porsche 911 Air / Oil cooled Engine, I noticed 2 things, Every Piston had an Oil Squirter, The engine carries 14 Quarts of Oil and all have some kind of Oil cooler. The Standard engines have a cooler by using the Oil tank in the airstream, The Hotter engines run a line to the Front of the car in the right Fender with a Simple Loop of Copper. The Turbo ENgines all get a real Oil Cooler and have a Thermo controlled Bypass Valve.) These are just some of the things I considered when deciding to add the 2 Oil Squirters
So for people running more NORMAL operations I would say it is not necessary but for me, I think it is a Necessity!
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Seth ZX12r UK
Expert Class
Posts: 238
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posted September 17, 2007 05:19 AM
Guess that clears that up then...cheers people...and gurus... 
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dougmeyer
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posted September 18, 2007 09:32 AM
Vincent,
That's because (as you correctly note) that your Porsche was air cooled which results in routine 300 degree cylinder head temps and "severe use" temps up to 400F. EVERYTHING runs hot in there and it takes massive oil flow to keep temps "livable". Piston in air-cooled engines tend to run much hotter than in liquid engines.
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VincentHill
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posted September 18, 2007 09:44 AM
A 150 SHot of NOS will not heat things up a little Extra?
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dougmeyer
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posted September 19, 2007 07:50 PM
Well, sure it might. But I think if it does more than a little, it'll be a lot and those nice little squirters ain't gonna save your ass..... But they can't hurt!
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VincentHill
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posted September 20, 2007 06:53 AM
quote:
Well, sure it might. But I think if it does more than a little, it'll be a lot and those nice little squirters ain't gonna save your ass..... But they can't hurt!
Between the New Schnitz Controller looking at the A/F to stop the NOS when I set it at 12 to 1 and do not allow spikes for more than 1.5 second up to 15 to 1 and "Correct" Setting of the Gasoline along with the "Painted" Instructions on my "To DO" list MAY Help overcome my SOmetimers Disease! These will do MORE for the Piston cooling that the Squirters.
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The Zedhed
Parking Attendant
Posts: 7
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posted September 29, 2007 05:15 AM
I'm looking to install a set of 4 jets for a high hp turbo ZX11 where do I get them from?
Initially thinking of suppling them from the extra oil feed Kawasaki installed to the gearbox as this currently feeds the turbo (via a restrictor)
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