darrmo
Parking Attendant
Posts: 5
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posted August 06, 2007 12:47 PM
 Edited By: darrmo on 6 Aug 2007 13:48
Need some advice regarding engine build
Ok I have a 2000 zx-12r which had about 26,000 miles. I started with an Arkopovic Full exhaust and a Power commander 3. On our Dynojet 250 dyno we made 170.1 Hp and 91 lb tq. (91 degrees with 45% humidity) I purchased the following items:
1287 JE pistons Kit
Muzzys adjustable cam sprocket
Muzzys clutch pack
Muzzys block off Plates
Muzzys Aluminum Fan
All new gaskets top and bottom
All new Bearings
My engine builder is a Busa guy but does good work. We take it down and send the cylinder off to Millennium Technologies to be bored and replated. My man finishes the build and all is running well. He degrees the cams 107/109 with no ignition advance. I break it in for 600 miles with regular oil then switch to synthetic Mobil one. I then go to have it custom mapped. So 40 + pulls later we are all mapped with our peak being 175hp and 96lb ft tq (93 degrees with 42% humidity) . Keep in mind this is the same Dynojet 250 it turned 171/91 with just the full Akro and pc3. We didnt go into the head and we are using stock cams. I dont want to be that kind of complaining whiny customer with outrageous expectations. Question I have is should I have expected a larger gain in power over my previous modifications? So I ask you guys your thoughts on this?
ps. I also noticed the engine runnning incredibly hot. When on the highway at speed temp will remain at halfway mark but stop and one light for a few seconds and the temp is immediately at 2\3 and sit for more than 3 minutes say and its at the top mark. Im currently running engine ice and new fan which seems to make it run cooloer but it still run extremely hot. I even went so far as to check the radiator for air and maybe damage but all was well.
   
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted August 06, 2007 02:40 PM
Cam timing isn't optimum for sure, and I wonder what your bore clearance and C/R are, but if you're sure it's well mapped, I suspect measurement error (correction factors?). You're short at least 10 hp.
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted August 06, 2007 04:02 PM
Yeah your way short on power. I picked up close to 15 HP with the 1270 kit. 181.6 HP and 101.3 for torque.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted August 06, 2007 08:23 PM
107/109 cam timing sounds like something for a stroker.. I would go to more like 105/107 and try that..
you should be making 195 STD or about 190 SAE
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johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted August 07, 2007 05:53 AM
104\103
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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capt10ed
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted August 11, 2007 01:53 AM
Are you recommending the 104/103 for the most top end power for a 1270/ 1290? Or woud that setting give the broadest ?
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted August 14, 2007 07:43 AM
"Broadest" is always best. Shoot for Johnny's numbers. Your comment about "incredibly hot" is also troublesome. Check for air in the system- bleed carefully.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted August 14, 2007 12:08 PM
How goes the 1290? Did you have a chance to bump the cams and or get compression
numbers?
Down here in Texas my little ZX-12 runs really warm also. If I were to get stuck in
any kind of traffic jam I think I would have to turn it off and start pushing, but I'll
fix that right after the Texas Mile with a little larger radiator and maybe a better fan.
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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darrmo
Parking Attendant
Posts: 5
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posted August 15, 2007 07:29 AM
Well I want to thank you fellas for replying to my post. After reading your comments I was armed with better information for my discussion with my engine guy. He is going to go ahead and do a leak down test and check compression as well as redo my cam timing to what seems to be the most recommended settings of 105/103. We will also make sure to check the cooling system for air.
After doing a little research here and on zx-12r.org (search feature is a wonderful thing. lol) If my cooling problems persist I might attempt to retro fit a radiator from 2003 or so that has 2 fans instead of one. After reading so many posts I never actually found anyone who has done this. Anyone familiar with both A1 models and b1 models have any advice on what might be involved?
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted August 15, 2007 07:34 AM
quote:
How goes the 1290? Did you have a chance to bump the cams and or get compression
numbers?
Down here in Texas my little ZX-12 runs really warm also. If I were to get stuck in
any kind of traffic jam I think I would have to turn it off and start pushing, but I'll
fix that right after the Texas Mile with a little larger radiator and maybe a better fan.
When you fix your cooling issues, I'm sure many of us would be interested in the details.
Thanks,
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted August 15, 2007 07:36 AM
quote:
If my cooling problems persist I might attempt to retro fit a radiator from 2003 or so that has 2 fans instead of one. After reading so many posts I never actually found anyone who has done this. Anyone familiar with both A1 models and b1 models have any advice on what might be involved?
If you end up using an 03 rad w/2 fans, let us know how it goes.
Thanks,
____________
We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted August 15, 2007 09:38 AM
First I read this post and agree with Mr. Cheese and what DM and Tony Said! WHere did those cam numbers come from?
I also hope the Power numbers were SAE. What ever you end up with it sure should be over 100 in Torque and 184 in HP. Other than THe wierd Cam timing, the #1 problem I know about is getting the rings to seat because the Oil is soo slipery nowadays it is hard to get anything to break in!
Last, there is a LOT of discussion about the 02 and later fans! Sort of like Kawasaki to know that 1 was not enough and then "Up grade " to 2 fans on the later models. (I do not know for sure but I think the first 14's had 1 fan also! and now they have 2)
From what I have heard, because of some difference in how the engine is mounted (The 02 and later heads will not work either) no one has ever (to my knowledge) mount an 02 fan in the 00 and 01 bikes!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted August 15, 2007 10:15 AM
Those cam numbers sound like the ones Entropy used on his old motors, I
hear he is going to get a little crazy with the new motor!
I'd shoot for the cam timming JC and Mr. Meyer say, as they are very well
versed on ZX-12 motors.
As far as cooling goes, I new I would probably have issues on the street
here in the Texas heat so I just had a custom radiator built at a local shop.
If you were looking at a dual fan setup or aftermarket fan you can always have
a local radiator shop reweld your mounting brackets further back so the radiator
will sit further forward and allow more room for the head/frame mount bars and
header pipes. You will have to trim a little on the inside of the fairings though.
Maybe one of those high volume oil pump gears Mr. Robinson is working on might
help spin things around a little better, you never know it just might spin the coolant
side around a little quicker as well.
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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