ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 14, 2006 02:46 PM
Find out how to derestrict the newer 32 bit ECU ZX-12Rs for a measly $10
I see there is yet another thread about how to speed derestrict the newer ZX-12s. It appears that there is no commercially available mod.
As many of you know I figured out how to derestrict the 2001 ZX-12 before Muzzy did. The only reason I haven't figured it out for the newer bikes is I don't own one.
So here is what I propose:
A thousand board members send me $10 each so I can go buy a used newer model ZX-12 to use as a research testbed. I will figure out how to derestrict it and then let you all know how to do it.
As an added bonus I will be able to figure if my bluefordbox works on it and if the 32 bit ECUs are programmable.
When I'm done with it Fish and Freek can have a drawing and pick a name from among the 1000 contributors and the winner gets the bike.
If it works we can do it every year when the new models come out. You all buy me a new ZX-12, 14, and/or 6. I hack them, and then we raffle them off.
I don't know about you but I think this is a great plan 
   
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 14, 2006 03:11 PM
 Edited By: VincentHill on 14 Nov 2006 15:13
When I first started reading what you were proposing, I said, this is ridiculous! Then as I read on, I said not too bad! Then when I got to the end, the only thing I was thinking was We need to look around for a good deal on a late model 2004 or 2005 and figure out the cost and maybe if the price was right we could find maybe 100 to 150 ZX12R owners that have 04 & 05 models that would pay $50 which would give the board $5,000 to $7,500 and then when done, "Sell" then Bike and we return $25 to everyone or just send them a "T" Shirt and you keep the difference for your time and effort!
Dealing with 100 to 150 interested parties is a lot easier than 999 that will gain nothing (the 1 that wins would)
Better yet, someone near you loans their bike over the winter time and maybe 20 to 50 people come up with the $25 to $50 necessary to buy a new ECU for you to destroy and extra Money for what ever you need it for. Small numbers for the amount of people and amount needed. Because right now, there is no other game in town! (If I had an 05 and poor as I am it would be worth $50 for you to take a shot at it! WIn lose or draw! What else do these owners have going for them to get this bike de-restricted??)
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 14, 2006 03:22 PM
Well maybe we could sell 'shares' at $10 a shot. If you are really interested then you can buy 15 or 20. I would hate to exclude the little guy who want's to participate but can't afford $100.
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted November 14, 2006 03:41 PM
I'd go for it.
Count me in for $100 if this gets rolling.
____________
"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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drryanscarsella
Expert Class
Posts: 113
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posted November 14, 2006 04:04 PM
Ill go in too, but I have a guy from maxton who has an 2004 model who has already done this and gone 204 on his 04. He agreed that there was no proven option, said that he had traced down the prob and eliminated the rev limiter on his. I was planning on sharing the info when I get it. If I can find his name and how to reach him, id give him a ring sooner, he offered the info for free. Id share if its cool and effective. If I can get it before next maxton, Ill post it up and try and test it as well on a 05 model.
I will keep us posted, maybe Vince knows the gents name. He was on the silver 04 with the 1427 big bore. If hes online Ill shoot him a mail, or hell if we know his name and where hes from maybe we could call.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 14, 2006 05:13 PM
Shares are a lot better idea!
Ryan, all we need to do is look at a picture of his bike, get the number from it, look at the results and you have his name. Then contact the ECTA and get mail information
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted November 14, 2006 05:24 PM
Does anybody have or know what country has a 21175-1064 ECU?. I know that 21175-1065 is European...
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Texas12R
Zone Head
Posts: 545
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posted November 14, 2006 05:34 PM
Ive been very skeptical about any major manufacturer selling de-restricting for the 04/05
Ive even considered selling my 05 to try to find a 2000.
I think it is rooted in the liability of such
Im all for WHATEVER Ridge can do, and will do. I think he deserves something for his efforts.
Im confident that with the knowledge that circulates across the forum a solution
will be found! I will contribute to the cause!!!!!!!
as for me......I'll be watching.....and a sincere THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK!
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ozzy
Needs a job
need guberment cheese
Posts: 3172
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posted November 14, 2006 05:49 PM
lets git er done
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 15, 2006 06:47 AM
Well I guess this is on hold till we hear from the Maxton Man. It will be interesting to see what he came up with.
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capt10ed
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted November 15, 2006 05:15 PM
Edited By: capt10ed on 15 Nov 2006 17:30
I have an 04 that is now a 1290, I ordered the Bear stacks from Mr Hill for it , only to find that out the 04 throtle bores are Larger and will not work. Then we find that the injectors are Larger then previous models. My 04 also has the powercommander, Arata exhaust, BMC race filter. Sealed and enlarged the airbox and I then added Dymag mag wheels to make it handle.....
Count me in for the cure !!!!!!!
I LOVE my 12
____________
2014 Loring AFB 14 runs over 200mph
with a best of 208.1 in 1.5 miles
and 204.5 in the mile.
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stef12rr
Expert Class
Posts: 144
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posted November 15, 2006 06:41 PM
capt10ed how did you enlarged the airbox ?
do you know how much did you lose on the wheel, i change the front rotor and i saw a good difference
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drryanscarsella
Expert Class
Posts: 113
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posted November 15, 2006 07:23 PM
Vince do you have any pics of that bike? I'Ll send a letter if we can get his information. Ill give him a call if he's listed. I was kind of hoping I would get it in the mail by now, but se la vi.
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted November 16, 2006 06:12 AM
Here is the 1427 you are talking about:
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 16, 2006 06:36 AM
Hmm...the faster silver color but with red rims. Maybe that is his secret 
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capt10ed
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted November 16, 2006 12:27 PM
Stef, I removed the access plates and made new ones with 1/4" lexan. Marginal but every little bit helps. The mags wheels lightened the bike by over 15 lbs. because I also have a small rear rotor and a alumunum sprocket. The rear wheel is also a 190. It is now really flickable even at elevated speeds. My bike is also the faster silver color.
____________
2014 Loring AFB 14 runs over 200mph
with a best of 208.1 in 1.5 miles
and 204.5 in the mile.
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havin it
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted November 16, 2006 01:03 PM
that silver bike looks really good
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stef12rr
Expert Class
Posts: 144
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posted November 17, 2006 02:25 PM
capt10ed i know it!!! but did you do with the sensor on right access plate , and your right about little bit help! for my self i do have aluminium sproket galfer front disc, but for the rear tire i love the look of the 200
no dought you are the fastest silver arrow
you have the same exhause as me
no silver in canada i bought a black one look smaller
your small rear sproket wiche one did you buy?
did you lighted your crank?
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drryanscarsella
Expert Class
Posts: 113
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posted November 17, 2006 03:19 PM
Thats the bike! I guess I can email the ecta on mon and see what we can come up with. Shouldnt be too difficult. It should be good for the late model guys. I will help out everyone as needed. I have been working on this for 7-9 months now, rounding third now.
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capt10ed
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted November 18, 2006 07:42 AM
The 1/4 lexan is thick so I was able to tap it for the sensor, added blue lock-tight to be safe. The rar sprocket has the same number of teeth as oiginal but is alumunum. The rear disc is smaller with more holes. I for got to add I had Owen extend the rev limit for me, only using 12,200 for top speed. Nothing wwas done to the crank ( yet).
Dr. please get a hold of the owner of the silver arrow to finally put an end to the 04/05 restriction, so we no longer have to be consodered second class citizens on our more refined, better handling monster.
____________
2014 Loring AFB 14 runs over 200mph
with a best of 208.1 in 1.5 miles
and 204.5 in the mile.
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drryanscarsella
Expert Class
Posts: 113
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posted November 19, 2006 08:56 PM
I inquired with the ecta about his local, info etc. I sent sun night should have some info soon enough. No matter what happens, I am keeping my g pack on, I plan on also adding a yellow box as well just to turn down so ecu never really knows how fast I am going. Also, I am adding a gps to my stable to calibrate yellow box.
As far as the g pack goes, I have hit my limiter in 6th a few times on the highway. I have felt the rev limiter hit at top speed, I will add at Maxton, I did not feel it kick on. When I did it on highway, speedo appeared to be right at 186 if I recall. So it runs off of speedometer I assume. I also recall the FI light kicks on too. Neither of these happened at maxton, The speedo went past 190, and no limiter kicked on, true speed was 186.3.
I am not saying buy a g pack, but something was altered in my opinion so I am leaving it for now. The gpack plugs in down near the output shaft into some plugs down there on l side, so it must read the speed of the shaft and interpret this into speedo reading of 186?
I am no computer whiz or anything like that, but a bigger front sprocket could fool this system then, same rpms equal more speed. But if it reads off of speedo, then this might be negated, unless speedo reads off of output shaft too. I do not know all of the details, but maybe the rev limiter output from the ecu could be resited or bypassed to limit restrictor. Just me thinking, I will keep trying.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 20, 2006 04:48 PM
The speedo sensor is an inductive pickup just like the one that reads the timing wheel on the right end of the crankshaft only it pulses off the teeth of the 6th gear on the output shaft. The gear has 31 teeth and at 186mph in 6th gear that works out to ~3200 Hz or pulses per second.
This signal is routed to the instrument cluster and the ECU. If the GPack is plugged in between the speedo sensor and the wire harness it would change the speed both the speedometer and the ECU saw. The first speed sensor plug has 3 wires. It then combines with the gear selector plug which has 10 wires. Which did you plug the G-Pack into?
You are correct about the sprocket. Just as a smaller sprocket causes the limiter to kick in before 186 true a larger sprocket would make it kick in at some true speed higher than 186.
If you have Excel here is a spreadsheet you can use to calc measured speed vs true speed with different gears. Change the values in red. The answers are in blue.
http://www.olympus.net/personal/mbially/zx12spdcalc.xls
Here are the values
Gears___Measured=True___speed at 11500 redline)
17/46____186=176mph_______188 mph
18/46____186=186mph_______199.69mph
19/46____186=196mph_______210.79mph
20/46____186=206mph_______221.9mph
Also you seem to have a small misconception of how the restircter works. The ECU fires the spark plugs and drives the injectors internally. When the ECU decides the bike is going to fast it simply restricts the amount of fuel and/or retards the timing. There is no rev limiter output from the ECU. Its not like the older systems that would ground out one of the coils to prevent over reving. The ECU does not send a limiting signal to the ignition module, it is the ignition module as well as the fuel injection module.
When you twist that throttle you actually have no physical control over how much gas is going to the engine. You are simply asking the ECU to 'please' give me more speed. If the ECU thinks your going over 186 it says no.
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capt10ed
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted November 22, 2006 07:44 AM
RR here is a little device that I thought you made.
http://www.i-hacked.com/content/view/178/45/
Can' t I use it along with the 6 to 5 gear swap to fool my ECU?
____________
2014 Loring AFB 14 runs over 200mph
with a best of 208.1 in 1.5 miles
and 204.5 in the mile.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 22, 2006 08:39 AM
Good Question. I don't know if anyone has tried it with the 5th gear swap. It basically does the same thing as the Muzzy Bonneville Box. If I had to guess I would say no. As pointed out in the other thread on derestricting...
quote:
f I remember right the hack for speed restriction on 01-03 bikes with RR:s instruction - the actual signal that goes to the speed input of ECU dosen't never show more than 10-15MPH? So maybe in the later model maybe the signal just has to be closer to the actual value of the speed, because it has been stated that adjusting the speed signal on ZX14 works. Maybe they just upped the limit which is considered "normal" operation and so You can't use the tach signal anymore but need more advanced electronics to make the signal slower.
Also after hearing about the 10,900 limit of the G-Pack I came up with this idea.
quote:
We know the G-pack gimmick is traditionally to fake the gear position. We know the old speedo gimmicks don't work
I've been saying for awhile that I think the new ECUs look at both gear (rpm and gear ratio calculated speed) AND speedo sensor to measure the speed. I did some quick math and the G-pack limit kicks in at a 5th gear speedo to calculated speed error of 110%
G-pack tells the ECU it is in 5th when its in 6th. At 10900 rpm the ECU calculates given the 5th gear ratios etc. that it should be doing 173mph. But the ECU looks at the speedo sensor and and because we are actually in 6th it says 190 mph. Whoa the ECU says, the measured speed is 10% more than my calculated speed. Something fishy is going on hold this speed.
So what if the ECU software says in 6th gear your limit is 186 but in other gears there is no limit as long as the measured speed and the calculated speed are within 10% of each other? That in gears other than 6th its not a limit but a fault condition.
That means if you put a yellow box on the speedo line and reduced it 10% and wired the bike for 5th gear you would make 190 in 6th look like 173 in 5th to the ECU. But because the ECU has a 10% fudge factor it will allow you to run up to an apparent 190 in 5th which would be a true speed of 209 in 6th.
I think a yellow box and the 5th gear swap together are the likely solution.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 22, 2006 08:46 AM
AS THE AUTHOR OF THIS THREAD I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST THAT ANY FURTHER POSTS ON THE SUBJECT OF DERESTRICTING THE NEWER 12s BE POSTED IN
What deristrictor for zx12 (05-06models)
WE SEEM TO HAVE TWO THREADS ON THE SAME TOPIC AND I THINK IT WOULD BE BETTER TO HAVE ALL THE INFO IN ONE THREAD.
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