supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted October 02, 2006 08:50 AM
Is the ZX14 Impressive or Not?
After doing lots of mililng around and checking data I have come to the conclusion that the zx14, pound for pound is not impressive for its size. Going on bikez.com the 00 zx12r is listed at 185ps at the crank without ram air. The zx14 is rated at 190 ps. The 01-05 zx12r's are rated at 178 ps and 190 ps with ram air. The zx14 is neutured in gears 1-4, also in top speed, and also with the secondary throttle bodies.
There also doesnt seem to be any factory support behind the zx14. You can get factory intake cam and ecu for the 10r and not a damn thing for the zx14. On average dynos the zx14 is only putting out 6-8 more rwhp stock for stock.( compared to the 12r) The extra stroke is nullified greatly due to the detuning of the ecu and injector in gears 1-4.
With mr9 fuel and a sidewinder brock tuned a zx12r to 189.5 RWHP.. and from the data I saw only 192 on a zx14 with the same set up. On the strip the zx14 IS A SUPERIOR SET UP with the longer wheel base and increased stroke. Otherwise for 12r owners just get a 1270, 1287, or even a 1375 kit.. this is just IMHO. The 14 I was able to walk last week on the roll on didn't impress me at all. Granted he was stock but still. This is of course i.m.h.o.
   
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famous1
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted October 02, 2006 01:45 PM
quote:
After doing lots of mililng around and checking data I have come to the conclusion that the zx14, pound for pound is not impressive for its size. Going on bikez.com the 00 zx12r is listed at 185ps at the crank without ram air. The zx14 is rated at 190 ps. The 01-05 zx12r's are rated at 178 ps and 190 ps with ram air. The zx14 is neutured in gears 1-4, also in top speed, and also with the secondary throttle bodies.
There also doesnt seem to be any factory support behind the zx14. You can get factory intake cam and ecu for the 10r and not a damn thing for the zx14. On average dynos the zx14 is only putting out 6-8 more rwhp stock for stock.( compared to the 12r) The extra stroke is nullified greatly due to the detuning of the ecu and injector in gears 1-4.
With mr9 fuel and a sidewinder brock tuned a zx12r to 189.5 RWHP.. and from the data I saw only 192 on a zx14 with the same set up. On the strip the zx14 IS A SUPERIOR SET UP with the longer wheel base and increased stroke. Otherwise for 12r owners just get a 1270, 1287, or even a 1375 kit.. this is just IMHO. The 14 I was able to walk last week on the roll on didn't impress me at all. Granted he was stock but still. This is of course i.m.h.o.
I.M.H.O.'s are like a**holes....everybody has them and they all stink... lol....
brock's 192 hp bike went over 200 at maxton and has seen a best of 9.07 in the qtr( in 95+ degree heat)... my best qtr mile time on my 05 zx-10 was a 9.39@ 150..thin head gasket, slammed, strapped with an akro pipe,pc and cams degreed..... so far i have a best 9.45 on my 14..piped(not brock--but soon to be..) lowered and strapped... no pc, flies in.... .20's and teens here i come....
you gotta ride one... i guess the differance just don't translate to paper..... but it's there, and it's huge............. i.m.h.o..
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted October 02, 2006 01:46 PM
I couldn't agree more. I've got a 1361, and you'd have to pay me to switch. I stopped by my local Kawi dealer today for some parts when I saw an 04 BUSA sitting next to a 14. Sorry, bu the BUSA is better looking, imho ofcourse....What Big K needs to do is come out w/a 14 that/s built like, and looks like a 10. Big K would have to open new factories just to keep up w/the sales 
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Bently
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posted October 02, 2006 04:09 PM
I'm 216 in shorts and have been 9.48 at 150.29 on my 14. to me thats impressive. Stock wheelbase, Brock Smeg, quickshifter, lowerd, pump gas(87). If I pull my head out my ass and start 60footing I will be in the 9.30's
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megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted October 02, 2006 05:58 PM
IMHO
When I add IMHO, I'm not saying that's the way it is, I'm just expressing my opinion with the understanding that I realize other see things differently, and that they could be just as right as I am. And, BTW, this is the ZX-12 forum, so I think it fair to assume we're not trying to stri thing up...
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Bently
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posted October 02, 2006 06:11 PM
No never thought anyone was trying to stir things up, just telling what I ran so there are some impresive times being ran by 14's. Believe me 12's are fast to as are Busa's.
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megabyte
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posted October 02, 2006 07:52 PM
quote:
No never thought anyone was trying to stir things up, just telling what I ran so there are some impresive times being ran by 14's. Believe me 12's are fast to as are Busa's.
I think I need to keep quiet about the looks of the 14. After all, we're all brothers here, right
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zx12mark
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posted October 02, 2006 08:11 PM
i think the real 14 will appear the year after the new busa.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted October 02, 2006 08:25 PM
fair enough. Keith Parnell ran 205.5 mph with a 1270 kit. So i guess its fair to say that a
that a 1270 zx12r runs equally as well as a zx14 on the dyno, quarter mile and
top speed
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted October 02, 2006 08:35 PM
I usually won't step into a debate like this but i'll throw in my dimes worth.
On most points supra is correct. There is not a big difference in hp between the two. Also the zx14 is nuetered in the torque department down low.
I own both bikes and i'll admit when i first got my 14 i was a little unimpressed in the hp department.
However, once you take out the flies, add a full exhaust(tsukigi for me) and get a pc the bike gains nearly 20 hp and 8-9 ft lb's of torque. My zx14 now makes 181 hp and 107.3 ft lb's of torque with only bolt ons. That's impressive in my book. Additionally, the important part is average torque and hp under the curve.
I'll give you a little food for thought with this example.
My wifes zx12r has these mods:
1. step hindle exhaust(full system)
2. pc3 with a custom tune
3. bmc race filter
4. timing adv
5. bear velocity stacks
6. 17-48 gearing (mile high guys understand)
7. 169 hp and 98 ft lb's of torque
ZX14 mods:
1. muzzy full pipe
2. pc3
3. schnitz map
4. 16 tooth front sprocket
5. flies removed
6. dynoed 170 hp and 101 ft lb's of torque
My friend and i did second gear roll ons from as low as 3k (big advantage for the zx14) to 6500 rpm starts(better for the zx12 but not bad for the 14) thru roughly 5th gear.
At 3k roll ons the zx14 crushes the zx12. From second gear start the 14 pulls a solid three bike advantage thru second gear.
Roll on starts from 6500 rpm and the zx14 still gets a full 1 1/2 bike lead thru second gear.
On all of our roll ons the 14 would get the initial pull and then hold the lead up thru 5th gear.
We switched riders with the same result the 14 gets a quick jump and then holds out its lead.
Now dont panick fellas I also drag race. I dont make any claims at being a pro. Well actually i have my pro licence whatever that means. My point is im a consistant racer. So i take them down to the local dragstrip and run both bikes.
These et's are at a mile high location on a grudge night. So the track stinks and isnt prepped. I also weigh 230 in gear so dont yawn at the times and mph. Stock height and wheel base, foot shifted.
Zx12 ( ive got alot of seat time on the zx12)
1.72-1.75 60 ft's
best et for the night 10.50@135.6 mph
zx14
1.63-1.70 60 ft's
Best et for the night 10.28@ 135.6 mph
The mph is essentially the same but the extra torque the zx14 has is making it easier to et better.
Last, but not least is the switch to the tsukigi pipe and custom tune which netted a 10 hp gain over the muzzy set up with schnitz map.
I love my zx12 I like the looks better than my 14. But as an overall package the zx14 wins. It has better torque down low( removed butterflies) SUPERIOR brakes, smoother engine (barely) more comfortable ride( for us older guys) and maybe better handleing. Is it worth dumping your zx12 to get a 14? The answer is it depends. If your a zx12 diehard then theres no need to buy a new bike. I bought the new bike because i wanted a new bike and see theres alot of potential. When is the last time you could buy a pipe,pc, and a custom tune and make better than 180hp and 107 ft lb's of torque.(remember its about hp and torque under the curve) What is going to happen once a bigbore kit, cams,headwork etc is installed or a turbo kit? I know the same thing can be said about the 12.
My friends the 14 is evolutionary not revolutionary. Pick your poison!
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted October 03, 2006 08:40 AM
Okay cool. A real world comparo. The zx14 is a zx11 with 40 more horsepower. and 20 more foot pounds of torque. The larger stroked motor will jump the short stroke motor every time. Short stroke motors have to be wound up to get the power advantage in the higher rpms.. Thanks for the info..
supra
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Y2KZX12R
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posted October 03, 2006 11:13 AM
I've seen 1 zx14 so far while i was riding. I came up behind him and 2 other bikes and let it be known i wanted him to smack it with some antaganistic moves. It had a Muzzy pipe. He pulled out and passed his buddy (the first bike) and was clearly on it hard. I realed him in and went right past him. It pulled on him about the same as it pulls on piped liter bikes.
And I still have stock cams.
Some day I'll have to ride one to see what it feals like "seat of the pants".
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GUNNER
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Posts: 5778
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posted October 03, 2006 11:16 AM
quote:
I've seen 1 zx14 so far while i was riding. I came up behind him and 2 other bikes and let it be known i wanted him to smack it with some antaganistic moves. It had a Muzzy pipe. He pulled out and passed his buddy (the first bike) and was clearly on it hard. I realed him in and went right past him. It pulled on him about the same as it pulls on piped liter bikes.
And I still have stock cams.
Some day I'll have to ride one to see what it feals like "seat of the pants".
You Bullie you!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted October 03, 2006 11:19 AM
Well Y2K you probably have minimum 30 RWHP on him.. Your wrenching was well worth the effort. With the technology changes finally coming to bikes.. No more need for strokers or big bores, Variable Valve Timing takes the need for increased displacement away to a large extent..
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butterthegreat
Expert Class
Posts: 329
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posted October 04, 2006 07:31 AM
Biggest difference between the 12 and the 14 is one key work.....Aerodynamics. It may be ugly, but it sure as hell is functional.
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Phantom Menace
Expert Class
Posts: 169
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posted October 04, 2006 01:34 PM
quote:
I usually won't step into a debate like this but i'll throw in my dimes worth.
On most points supra is correct. There is not a big difference in hp between the two. Also the zx14 is nuetered in the torque department down low.
I own both bikes and i'll admit when i first got my 14 i was a little unimpressed in the hp department.
However, once you take out the flies, add a full exhaust(tsukigi for me) and get a pc the bike gains nearly 20 hp and 8-9 ft lb's of torque. My zx14 now makes 181 hp and 107.3 ft lb's of torque with only bolt ons. That's impressive in my book. Additionally, the important part is average torque and hp under the curve.
I'll give you a little food for thought with this example.
My wifes zx12r has these mods:
1. step hindle exhaust(full system)
2. pc3 with a custom tune
3. bmc race filter
4. timing adv
5. bear velocity stacks
6. 17-48 gearing (mile high guys understand)
7. 169 hp and 98 ft lb's of torque
ZX14 mods:
1. muzzy full pipe
2. pc3
3. schnitz map
4. 16 tooth front sprocket
5. flies removed
6. dynoed 170 hp and 101 ft lb's of torque
My friend and i did second gear roll ons from as low as 3k (big advantage for the zx14) to 6500 rpm starts(better for the zx12 but not bad for the 14) thru roughly 5th gear.
At 3k roll ons the zx14 crushes the zx12. From second gear start the 14 pulls a solid three bike advantage thru second gear.
Roll on starts from 6500 rpm and the zx14 still gets a full 1 1/2 bike lead thru second gear.
On all of our roll ons the 14 would get the initial pull and then hold the lead up thru 5th gear.
We switched riders with the same result the 14 gets a quick jump and then holds out its lead.
Now dont panick fellas I also drag race. I dont make any claims at being a pro. Well actually i have my pro licence whatever that means. My point is im a consistant racer. So i take them down to the local dragstrip and run both bikes.
These et's are at a mile high location on a grudge night. So the track stinks and isnt prepped. I also weigh 230 in gear so dont yawn at the times and mph. Stock height and wheel base, foot shifted.
Zx12 ( ive got alot of seat time on the zx12)
1.72-1.75 60 ft's
best et for the night 10.50@135.6 mph
zx14
1.63-1.70 60 ft's
Best et for the night 10.28@ 135.6 mph
The mph is essentially the same but the extra torque the zx14 has is making it easier to et better.
Last, but not least is the switch to the tsukigi pipe and custom tune which netted a 10 hp gain over the muzzy set up with schnitz map.
I love my zx12 I like the looks better than my 14. But as an overall package the zx14 wins. It has better torque down low( removed butterflies) SUPERIOR brakes, smoother engine (barely) more comfortable ride( for us older guys) and maybe better handleing. Is it worth dumping your zx12 to get a 14? The answer is it depends. If your a zx12 diehard then theres no need to buy a new bike. I bought the new bike because i wanted a new bike and see theres alot of potential. When is the last time you could buy a pipe,pc, and a custom tune and make better than 180hp and 107 ft lb's of torque.(remember its about hp and torque under the curve) What is going to happen once a bigbore kit, cams,headwork etc is installed or a turbo kit? I know the same thing can be said about the 12.
My friends the 14 is evolutionary not revolutionary. Pick your poison!
Nice write up! Good to see you did a PERSONAL comparo to see how they stack up.
It's no shocker to me that the ZX-14 pulled away from the ZX12R from low and midrange roll-on's. It's simply a matter of power at those particular RPM's and although the ZX-12R spins more RPM, there's just not enough extra RPM to counter the 153 extra cc's of the ZX14. I would however be curious to see how they compared from a high RPM roll with both bikes already in their peak power range.
In the real world (street racing).... there isn't always such defined "races". Both riders usually drop into the gear that puts them in their peak power according to the speed that they're traveling at. I know if I'm cruising down the highway at 80mph and I come up to a ZX14, I'm surely not going to slow down to 30-40mph to begin a race. I'll most likely drop it into whatever gear I know will put me closest to 9,000-10,000rpm where I will get the best drive.
On that note, the ZX-12R is a much smaller displacement bike at nearly the same weight. The fact that you're MPH in the 1/4 was identical says A LOT about the efficiency of the ZX-12R. That being said, a simple 1287cc piston kit will without doubt leave the 1352cc ZX-14 in the dust.
Quick question..... is your ZX-12R lowered or stretched at all? If not, perhaps the better ET on the 14 may be due to you being more comfortable launching the 14 out of the hole. We all know the peaky ZX-12R motor needs to be launched like a literbike, which is hard due to it's tall height and shorter (compared to the 14) wheelbase. It's no suprise you're able to 60' the 14 better than the 12R without so much seat time. One of the key advantages the Busa had over the 12R's was it's launchability.... something Kawasaki worked hard to mimic in the ZX14.
For the 12R to get out of the hole like a 14 or Busa... it needs to be significantly lowered and preferably extended to 60".
Enjoy your new 14 brother! I haven't had the pleasure of riding one yet, but from what hear and read.... It's A BAD MUTHA.... shut yo mouth!
p.s.- The "evolution not revolution" comment was spot on.
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zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
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posted October 04, 2006 08:58 PM
 Edited By: zx12adam on 4 Oct 2006 22:00
I'm obviously NOT a drag racer(see sig) but a street rider looking for curves, how does the handling compare? So far I've heard the 12 out handled the Busa and more recently a Busa out handled a 14.
With the 14 being lower, wider, and with a longer wheelbase plus 10-15lbs more weight I wouldn't see it doing as much in corners as the 12. But the 14 has newer brakes...
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CBR1000RR
Best Literbike: Performance Bikes, Superbike, BIKE, MCN, Road Racing World, and Motorcycle USA
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted October 05, 2006 04:47 AM
I'd have to agree that the clutch is bigger better. And the radial brakes may be better. All thou the later 12rs had radial brakes as well.
But the integral block and cylinder sucks and the smaller throttle bodies suck.
They tried to make the engine more "busa like" with more grunt down low with the smaller throttlebodies and longer stroke. I think that was a huge mistake. They shouldnt try to follow, they need to leed.
Suzuki has set the standard sence 1999 with the busa and then the 1000. Everyone else trys to catch up. And i'm sure the new Busa will be a MUCH bigger step forward engine wise than the 14 was over the 12r or Current busa.
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted October 05, 2006 05:30 AM
The 14 clutch blows the 12 clutch away!!!
I went 4 back to back passes on the 14 with 2 already from the owner...So thats 6 back to back passes and the clutch felt the same every pass!!!  I could not tell if it was the 3rd or 6th pass the clutch felt the same everytime!!!...Launched the same everytime too, no chatter, grabbing, squeeling...Was smooth every run!!!
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VincentHill
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Posts: 6520
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posted October 05, 2006 06:59 AM
No question the ZX11 Style clutch is a lot better than the ZX14 Clutch.
The Word for the ZX14 is Dissapointment for me! As I wrote, Kawasaki Refined all of the Kawasaki feel out of the bike and it felt more like a "Honda" to me. and as one famous person on this biard said, If they were going to do Ugly, then they should have done it first!
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted October 05, 2006 09:18 AM
The bore and stroke ratios on the newer bikes zx10r and zx14 have been changed. The zx9r 75 by 50.9 to the 10r 76 by 55. Also the zx12r 83 by 55.4 to the zx14 84 by 61. Kawasaki is focussing more emphasis on the stroke for more low and midrange perfomance. The bore and stroke ratio has gone from .66 to .72. The only bike to keep the .66 bore to stroke ratio is the ZX6rr, by far the most race focused motor.
Boring math but I'll continue... Suzki has large strokes in its liter bikes and the hayabusa a stroke of 59 and 63 respectively. However Suzuki is not afraid to rev those strokes to higher piston speeds. It seems like Kawi is becoming more like Honda instead of staying like Kawi. Most of us who want more focused mtors are going to the after market which is just fine with us.. I still wont ride anything else but big K....
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Y2KZX12R
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posted October 05, 2006 09:45 AM
The 12r clutch being small diameter and light weight as well as the crank being light weight (at least the 00-01 cranks were) was for quick reving and less gyro effect. The 12r clearly wasnt designed for dragracing at all. Thats why its 2" shorter wheelbase than a cbr 1100xx or busa and has a stroke shorter than any other bigbore and most 900's, 1000's, vfr800's etc. It was a big displacement sport bike not the sport tourer that the zx14 is.
The focus on the 14 was less sport (street and track handling) bike and more drag (long wheelbase, long stroke, big clutch) bike. More busaesque I guess you could call it.
Kawis target bikes, 1998 the gsxr1100 was 492 lbs dry and 125 rwhp, and the 1997-98 cbr1100xx at 494 lbs dry and 134 rwhp. The 12r in 2000 was 462 dry and 162 rwhp. But by the time the 12r came out the target had moved big time to the 1999 busa. Suzuki was a year ahead of Kawi. Assuming the cycle from concept to a production unit is 3 years then suzuki started on the busa as soon as they got wind of the 97xx sometime in 1996 and kawi waited untill some time in 1997 to pull the trigger on the 12r. So if suzuki waited untill they got wind of the 14 (summer 2005?) then the new busa could be here in 3 years from then maybe as a 2008???? who knows?
If I took over Kawi tomorrow I'd have production turbo options on the zx14, and the zx10r. Set the boost controller to 4 psi and offer optional VIN locked software interface for $1000 to change the ECU and boost controllers on both models. Also have a 2 piece selective spacer for compression under the divorced block and crankcase the way it should be. $1000 would give you all the power you could or couldnt handle and it would go into Kawis pocket.
I better wake up and stop dreaming and get back to work now...
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Y2KZX12R
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Bently
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Posts: 5428
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posted October 05, 2006 01:21 PM
zx 14 cluth is fine, 72 runs and 4400 street mies and as good as new. will go back out this weekend and probly put 10 or 12 runs on it. hoping for a low 9.40 or high 9.30.
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted October 06, 2006 06:33 AM
Very true and good ending story Jim!!! 
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dutchzx14
Expert Class
Posts: 213
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posted May 12, 2007 11:38 AM
have a zx14 2007, a good friend of mine hase a zx12r 2005. in gear 4 5 6 i ride a away just a little...... not much, but a little... so no bad word about the 12r here........
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