mlb
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted May 15, 2006 11:49 AM
Big motor choices and suggestions
OK I've had the bike for awhile now and like everything I own it's time to take it apart and make it "better". I'm looking for opinions on the route to take, my question is 1270, 1290, 1317, 1375... I primarily ride on the street but have been to the 1/8 mile a few times and will be doing much more of that and 1/4 here this summer. Leaving it stock pretty much isn't going to happen so get me on the right path to big HP (turbo isn't an option)
So if you had it to do over which way would you go? I know the 1317 is probably the most expensive but I do like the idea of big CC without having to stroke. What are everyones views on the pro's and cons of 1270/1290 and the 1317, how much more power can I get with the 1317. My apprehension to stroke is I'm afraid to lose street ridability and dependability.
I've got a dry shot on it now and that will be conveying as will my full Muzzy exhaust and PC. I assume that which ever way I go I'll be replacing the fuel pump and beefing up the clutch.
What should I do with the head, any recommendations on what can or should be done and who to send it to?
Thanks in advance.
  
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 15, 2006 12:11 PM
 Edited By: ninja12 on 15 May 2006 13:22
Depends on money and how often and how much i was going to spray.
To spray big or often i would go with 1270\1272.
To spray occasionally or less than 70-80hp go with a 1290 because of head gasket concerns.
The 1317 make good power , but i've seem a few rod and head gasket problems
and cost twice as much.
1361/1375/1394 would be a coin toss depending on where you get your crank.
and cost about same as 1317. Be ready to add 24v starting.
Je, wiesco and mtc all make good pistons for the zx12.
But only one place to get a crank done right if it's for me!
Now if money is not a concern and i didn't ride in alot of traffic,
i would go with the APE 1394 kit .
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 15, 2006 12:16 PM
Go with the 3mm bore 1287 cc pistons.. Degree your cams to 105/103 You'll make over 200 RWHP
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 15, 2006 12:20 PM
Muzzy advertises the 4mm bore 1317 kit at 202 RWHP STD. This is without cam timing changes..
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 15, 2006 12:23 PM
hey mlb are you the same guy with all of those motor parts?
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted May 15, 2006 02:06 PM
Bored and stroked, for sure. Nothing like the king kong torque of a stroker!
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countersteer
Needs a job
Didn't read the owners manual
Posts: 2207
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posted May 15, 2006 02:34 PM
1375. just do it.
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Scott
Long Island, New York
2006 ZX-14, 2003 ZX-12R
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 15, 2006 03:53 PM
if your not going to extend your rev limiter go with a stroker...
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted May 15, 2006 06:23 PM
If I was to do it again I would go with a 1270 instead of 1320.I just was impressed with the power as opposed to how much it cost.In stead of a stroker,I might consider a stand alone ignition and boost the rpm's.I haven't heard that yet but it might be a nice sleeper.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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countersteer
Needs a job
Didn't read the owners manual
Posts: 2207
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posted May 15, 2006 09:29 PM
if i were to do it again, i would have gone with a turbo. a big one too.
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Scott
Long Island, New York
2006 ZX-14, 2003 ZX-12R
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted May 16, 2006 06:06 AM
If your pockets are deep, do a 1427 and you'd be the bigest kid on your block.
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TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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rac4it
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted May 16, 2006 06:12 AM
Sell your shit and get a ZX14, done. Easier, more reliable, less hassle, and probably cheaper to upgrade than build up. And even after you've built up, you're left with an old bike with a built motor which will bring next to nothing in return on your investment. Sell your bike now, get out before the bottom drops, step into a new 14 and it's brand new and will have value for a few years.
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted May 16, 2006 07:08 AM
quote:
probably cheaper to upgrade
Check out that ZX10 style block...Think again...
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 16, 2006 07:55 AM
Edited By: ninja12 on 16 May 2006 08:56
quote:
Sell your shit and get a ZX14, done. Easier, more reliable, less hassle, and probably cheaper to upgrade than build up. And even after you've built up, you're left with an old bike with a built motor which will bring next to nothing in return on your investment. Sell your bike now, get out before the bottom drops, step into a new 14 and it's brand new and will have value for a few years.
That's what i should have said.
2-3k on a old bike or sell it and add 5k for a new one.
close to same hp, warranty and resale for a long time.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted May 16, 2006 10:56 AM
Yep, that block sucks on the ZX-14, But a hair dryer could cure that problem!
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TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 16, 2006 11:13 AM
I hear people complaining about the block,
All the liter bikes have the same design
don't seen to be holding them down.
Honda had it on the CBR900 in 94.
PROGRESS will continue with or without you.
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted May 16, 2006 06:02 PM
MLB, I'm happy with the 1375 so far. Its got lots of midrange power and screams right to the rev limiter.
I dont think you would be disapointed in it at all.
You will need to run a second battery in the rear storage area for 24v starting, but its not a big deal at all. A 4ah batery fits like it was made to go there.
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mlb
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted May 16, 2006 07:32 PM
All thanks for the comments so far. My impressions and questions from them though;
It's a bit long winded so bare with me.
1375 / 1427 is kinda on the not probable list just because I'm leary of the stroke and definately don't want to have to get into 24 volt systems etc, my "trunk" is full already let alone try and squeze another battery in there, I ride the bike way to much on the street for that.
The 14 is also not really on option becasue while your right I could sell mine and put that plus what I'm willing to put into the motor and then have a new bike I'm way to into the bling on this since I see it as a toy, just about everything on this bike is chrome and I'd never be happy with the 14 until it was that way as well so tack on another 5-7 grand to get it back the way this one is, and I'd still want to make it faster, stock just isn't any fun. Besides I still really like the styling of the 12. To give you an idea of the chrome on the current 12 I've got PM revolutions on the bike and since PM wouldn't chrome them for some stupid reason before I put them on the bike they went out for chrome as well...
That leaves me with 1270, 1290, or the 1317. Having a bit of a harley background bigger is normally better but I'm not sure I'm ready to drop that kind of coin on the 1317 since the difference between it and either of the others doesn't seem to be that much powere wise, am I mistaken could MORE power be had with it? That and the price difference would pretty much pay for the racing effort for the next couple years. If everyone was like go 1317 and you wont' regret it then I have no problem doing so but if the general concensus is that the difference is nothing that can't be made up for with cam timing and a little more gas then hey I'll save the money and put it into the head or some CF wheels for the track.
I've heard a couple mentions of head gasket problems with the 1317 and 1290 and rod issuse with the 1317 any more info on those issues? What's the common thinking on that? Also it appears a main difference in the 1290 and 1270 is compression, they seem to make about the same power just with the 1270 doing so with a bit higher compression, can you get the 1290 with the higher compression pistions?
That brings me to the heads, what should be done with them, anything, and if so who's the guy to send them to. I figure unless everyone says NO don't do that I was going to at least have Larry McBride (he lives in my area) do a full radius valve job and probably put in a tad larger SS valves at the same time and maybe at least polish the ports. What should be done as far as porting, I know it's something that can cause lots of problems if not done right so I figure I'll let those that have already done the experimenting do that. Other than that though between myself and a couple good friends we can definately put a motor together including cam timing etc so I don't need someone else to do that. To be honest I enjoy doing the work myself way to much to let someone else do it besides that way when it blows up and they always do eventually I don't have to second guess someone elses work.
I know Carpenter does race engines but the web site just lists a drive in drive out price, will he part out his kit ie will he just do the porting of the heads? Who else is known for good head jobs, no pun intended... 
Supra, While I do have a grunch of spare parts for both the 12 and the Harley in the garage to this point none of it's been for sale so I doubt I'm the same guy you're thinking about. If there's something you need let me know and I may be able to either help you out or point you in the right direction.
Thanks again
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted May 17, 2006 03:56 AM
MLB, I'll have a zx10 back from NPS later in the week so I'll be able to see what kind of work they do. http://www.npsracing.com/
My buddy was going to send it out to carpenter but decided on NPS. The turnaround time was just a few weeks.
Dont bother with bigger valves. It wont do a thing becuase the valves are not the bottle neck in the head. Chamber work, a good valvejob with stainless valves, and some minor port polishing is worth the time and money thou.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 17, 2006 07:43 AM
dollar for dollar.. the 1287 (1290) kit and degree your cams seems to be the best bang for your buck. The wiseco 3mm bore pistons arn't that expensive.. Doug Meyer made 202 RWHP with his 1270 and 105/103 cam timing.. So you'll probably get a few more ponies with the 1290..
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted May 17, 2006 11:35 AM
Not everyone can be like Mr. Meyer, so if it don't pull up 200hp with just a drop
in piston kit, don't be sad. If you have never done an engine build then stick
with the drop in, cause everything else is easier said than done.
As far as the ZX14 block goes it sure don't make it easy to drop in a big crank
and have a nice fatty engine to lug ya around. I am sure the big guns will have
a piston, rod, and/or crank kit for it some day soon. It seems they may have
learned from their mistakes and might put out stuff for this 14 quicker than
they did for the Busa or 12.
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TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted May 17, 2006 11:49 AM
Carpenter does heads, just call him up and he'll tell ya what ya need to know.
takes around 4 weeks.
But......... if your bud Larry is going to hook ya up then don't be shy.
A 1290 with a little head work would be real nice too.
I would be weary of offset bore blocks though, but I sure wouldn't
turn one away if anybody gave it to me.
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TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted May 17, 2006 06:42 PM
1270/90 with some headwork Coby Adams or Carpenter, degreed cams good pipe and a good tune and it will rip some ass....
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countersteer
Needs a job
Didn't read the owners manual
Posts: 2207
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posted May 17, 2006 08:33 PM
out of curiosity- how many of you who posted on this thread actually own a zx-12r with engine work?
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Scott
Long Island, New York
2006 ZX-14, 2003 ZX-12R
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted May 18, 2006 02:56 AM
quote:
out of curiosity- how many of you who posted on this thread actually own a zx-12r with engine work?
hmmm... are you thiking that their advise is grounded in second-hand knowledge???
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