Y2KZX12R
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posted February 13, 2006 01:31 PM
High strength 530 chains...
Has anyone tried the EK 530 ZZZ chain? They claim its an 11,000 lb. chain. Thats higher than any other o-ring i've seen.
I found it in gold 120 link length for $148. Gonna give it a try.
   
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zx12mark
Pro
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posted February 13, 2006 07:46 PM
have you broke a stock chain....hope not...anyway spencer cycle has a roll of stock 12 gold chain for 1.00 a link.. use a rivet tool for safety.
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zrexpilot
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posted February 13, 2006 08:00 PM
 Edited By: zrexpilot on 13 Feb 2006 20:02
EK DRZ non oring is 11,000 lbs , the DR2 is 10,000 non oring and is about a 1/2 lb lighter and is all you need for a streetbike. Oring chains are over rated in my opinion.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 14, 2006 03:11 AM
I Havent broken a stock 12r chain but i've stretched several 10,000 lb + chains out of spec in the past. The stocker is stretched to its limit now. And the rollers are shot.
Snaping isnt the problem. Its stretching. I suppose snapping could become a problem at some point but the chain would be out of spec WAY before that happened.
Living on a dirt road, the bike sees one mile of dirt road every time it gets ridden.
I have to have an oring chain. Non o-ring chains dont last under these conditions.
Trust me. Been there.
Hey, nice rack. Do you know that chick? What tensile strength are her straps? 
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speedgene
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posted February 14, 2006 02:23 PM
I don't know if this guy was playing a "goof" or what? I think I read it on another board, but this guy was saying he was using WD-40 for chain lube! First thing I thought of was (Dude, your crazy!) someone with a rusted out chain using that stuff. But the guy says there is no rust on the chain! Could be he sprays before and after a ride, I don't know?
Y2K, I don't know if using this thin type lube will help with the dirt road? I know the front wheel is kicking up a cloud full under the bike and for sure if you use chain lube, that dust is sticking good. Seems WD being so thing would flow, plus wouldn't tack up on the chain, wheel, fender, clothes, etc. I wonder if WD might work? I have an equivalent made by GM Goodwrench I'm willing to try. Same thin stuff, only comes out dark gray instead of clear like WD. Kicks ass better than WD in some applications.
Anyone think using WD40 sounds legit? I haven't a clue on this one?
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zrexpilot
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posted February 14, 2006 03:03 PM
Edited By: zrexpilot on 14 Feb 2006 15:04
I drag race so I dont us chain lube, people will tell me I'm a nut, but all I use is WD or some kind of equivalent, wheel rolls really smooth and easy, friction free. To me chain lubes gum up the chain, atract dirt, and it doesnt roll as easy.
I have about 12,000 miles on one stock chain, drag racing, wheelies etc. still as good as new. I clean it and spray it almost everytime I race
you wont stretch a DRZ, guarrantee it. just the intial stretch and thats it.
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franz131
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Posts: 341
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posted February 14, 2006 03:15 PM
All the latest chain lubes are super thin and no tacky additive.
They also include an extreme pressure additive to extend sprocket tooth life, unlike WD. There is no need for goopy chain lube with O-ring chains or for racing.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 14, 2006 03:36 PM
I've heard people say they use wd40. More than one.
But my fealing is that the kind of lubrication a chain needs is high pressure lube like 90w or grease. Somthing with a high shear strength. The pressures are huge.
Wd40 is more of a "cleaner", than a lube to prevent metal to metal contact. It doesnt have the shear strength. But your chain will never rust using it either. But your rollers and pins will wear quicker.
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NOX
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posted February 14, 2006 07:31 PM
Only way you are going to stretch a DRZ is with a 7 inch slick, bars, and mid to low 1.35 short times..........., Pro Stock bike uses it. The RK dr chain is within 500 lbs tensil of the DRZ, non oring, but lighter , cause it uses 530 thickness plates, instead of 630 thickness plates like the DRZ. I just bought one, ask me in a month how I like it.
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ninerrider01
Novice Class
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posted February 14, 2006 07:45 PM
I've used nothing but WD40 on my stock 530 chain for 20,000 miles now. Sure it's only a 9, but it's seen plenty of wheelies, and worse, rain rides and some long sport-touring trips. Even a couple rides that I got caught in sleet / wet snow. (Salt?)
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trenace
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posted February 14, 2006 07:50 PM
Edited By: trenace on 14 Feb 2006 19:53
I do not believe stretching is from lack of strength but from wear.
I have had good results with WD40 and so have others but in principle you are definitely right. Why in practice there doesn't seem to be a problem, I don't know. Do the O-rings truly seal in the original lubricant for the life of the chain? If so that would explain it, but that idea seems dubious to me.
Just out of principle I may switch to using Corrosion-X, on getting in a gallon of it, if it isn't too thick, which I don't think it will be. It has extremely outstanding lubrication as well as anti-rust properties and should be superior to WD40 while hopefully maintaining the low-drag property. (I will use mineral spirits, not Corrosion-X, to clean, as the Corrosion-X is very expensive.)
Other ideas of interest have included Eezox (no-go as it appears to swell rubber), Militec-1, or mixture of Militec-1 with Mobil 1 75W-90 gear oil. However, the Corrosion-X seems to me likely the best idea, pending getting it in.
It really comes down to polishing the apple as really there's been no problem with WD40, it's been excellent. However, as you say, in fact it has poor lubrication properties.
Part of the reason for wanting to develop an improvement is so as to have something in place for using a non-O-ring chain if desired. With the lubrication issue really solved, in principle I don't see whey they shouldn't last. The reason for their short life has been poor lubrication, as I understand it. The other reason for wanting to improve on the chain lube is just compulsiveness I guess.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 15, 2006 03:17 AM
Ninerider01, whats the roller to pin clearance on your chain now at 20,000 miles?
Terance, I'd have to disagree. I believe stretching the side plates is not caused by "wear". Loose rollers on the pins yea, thats wear. But not side plate stretch. But my problem is typically loose rollers on pins. But the stock 532 suzuki chains used to stretch right out of spec.
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franz131
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posted February 15, 2006 05:12 AM
quote:
I've heard people say they use wd40. More than one.
But my fealing is that the kind of lubrication a chain needs is high pressure lube like 90w or grease. Somthing with a high shear strength. The pressures are huge.
Consider the application:
*Actual wear points use capillary action (rollers) and boundary lubrication (sprocket teeth)
*Entire system is subjected to very high enertial forces.
*A chain lube is a total loss lubricant, once the lube come off it cannot be re-used.
Problem with 75w90:
*Equivalent to 50wt motor oil at temperature = inertia
*No tackiness additive to improve cling
*Best capillary action will be at temperature but bulk of oil will have flung of by then
Advantage of 75w90
*It will give good EP protection for the sprocket teeth
*It will also allow you to spend many sunny riding days cleaning you motorcycle
If you want a heavy lube, just use an old school chain lube. They will have tackifiers and solvent carriers to make it go on easier and come off harder.
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speedgene
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posted February 15, 2006 08:06 AM
The only way to lube a chain is to submerge it in oil. The main area of lube you want to penetrate is inside the roller. Each link pin wears out only on one side. Since the pins stay stationary, they receive the majority of wear to one side. What causes the stretch are the link pins each beginning to be chewed away by the rollers crunching (pressure against the sprocket tooth) against the thrust side (only) on one side of the pin. This is where you get the stretch. If you turn the chain over, and flip it, you get the advantage (I believe the flip is correct) of wearing out the other side of the pins. What a pain. It would be like rotating tires every 3K.
Trenace, Corrosion-X states high pressure application with their product above WD's ability. 90 bucks a gallon for the X. The stuff even looks good to spray the whole bike down with C-X, then head down the beach and watch sun set. Sitting in the mist from the waves is the downside. It eats the finish on many parts of the bike. Just think where you can't see what the salt air did? Thanks for the liquid tip trenace.
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ninerrider01
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posted February 16, 2006 10:21 AM
quote:
Ninerider01, whats the roller to pin clearance on your chain now at 20,000 miles?
Sorry, I don't know what you're asking for here. The only test I look for is how far I can pull the chain off the back side of the sprocket, and I look at the sprocket teeth carefully for shark-finning. I had an aluminum sprocket on for about 12,000 miles or so that got worn, which would make me think the chain is a little stretched. I noticed it before the last trackday so I reinstalled the stock steel sprocket and checked and the chain seemed to fit the teeth very nicely, so really not sure if it is stretched much from this test. Also, the wheel hasn't been adjusted back much at all from when the bike was new.
Anyway, one time I went too long without recoating and the plates got some surface rust on them, so the chain isn't so pretty anymore. If you just use WD40 you have to use it after each bike washing or rain-ride, plus every few dry rides in general.
I'm not saying real lube isn't better, but now that I've only used WD40 this long it's become a bit of an experiment. Once my chain is dead I'll ask around on zx9 boards to compare others' lifetimes with what I managed to get.
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trenace
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posted February 16, 2006 08:31 PM
quote:
Terance, I'd have to disagree. I believe stretching the side plates is not caused by "wear". Loose rollers on the pins yea, thats wear. But not side plate stretch. But my problem is typically loose rollers on pins. But the stock 532 suzuki chains used to stretch right out of spec.
I would have to agree that if the side plates stretch that is not wear but insufficient strength. I have never measured individual side plates but only the length of the combined system, which is affected by wear.
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Marcos Peguero
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posted February 18, 2006 04:43 AM
Lots of people use WD40 in zx12r and have good results.
My chain lasted 28K miles.
you just have to lube often.
Repsol has a chain lube that is not dirt (polish) magnet as the regular stuff.
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speedgene
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posted February 18, 2006 10:03 AM
Sorry I jacked your thread Y2k with WD. Now it's chain wear.
Maybe this visual will tell you where the stretch comes from? Next time you sit on the porcelain throne, look at your toilet roll dispenser. Notice how the toilet roll lays on top of the cartridge's spring'd pin. Make the toilet roll the roller of the chain, and the cartridge pin the stationary non-moving link pin to the chain. Take a paper leaf, start pulling paper off the roll, and notice how the roll is only crossing over the top of the pin. This same effect is happening to the roller against the link pin. This is the (exact point) where the pins are causing the stretch to the chain...The Pins, not the rollers!. This is where WD or Cor-X needs to be flowing into. So, now add more pins and rollers to the chain. Load the chain slack against both sprockets and measure the distance between one pin on one link to the next pin on a new link. The one sided flat pins are pressed against the rollers and a stretch measurement can determine between link pins. That's why if you want to flip the chain and let the pin wear on the other 180 side of the stationary pins, you can extend the life of the chain. How many miles between flips might be every 1000 miles (-/+). So if you're getting 20K never flipping the chain, how much extended wear could you get out of flipping it 180? 40K?
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12r1
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posted February 18, 2006 11:18 AM
Wow, that makes perfect sense. I got 20k out of my stocker, still have it. I had one with very few miles that I swapped for.Only thing is, I don't know which direction it was going! LOL. If I figure it out somehow, I'll try the flip and re-measure the slack. At 20k it was still well within spec, so it should be much tighter when flipped?? the actual roller may be noticeably looser on the older chain though...gotta remember that.
The only concern with this method is that the pins are still worn thinner, making the chain a fraction weaker?? It's only 0.000XX per pin, so should be fine for the street IMO. Racers would prob rather not chance it, I would think.
This sounds like a very plausable solution for thr frugal comuter for sure.
jeff
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 18, 2006 11:26 AM
Speed, yea i agree that one side of the pin gets more wear. That makes sence.
And that wear is the "A" dimension that the manual refers to.
But the centerline of the pin to pin distance is controlled by the side plates.
And that stretch is measured over a 20 link section of chain.
Flipping the chain? Never really thought about that but sounds like a good idea to try. Flip it at say... 10,000 miles?
Have you ever tried this?
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12r1
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posted February 18, 2006 11:54 AM
Edited By: 12r1 on 18 Feb 2006 11:56
The 20 link test is still a measure of pin wear. The inside links will give you the slack, as the outer large plates have the pins tightly pressed through them. The inside links are rotating around the pins, wearin' em out. Would'nt the pins get loose in the larger, outer plates if the plates actually stretched any??
jeff
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speedgene
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posted February 18, 2006 01:26 PM
Frugal indeed. Too bad you can't do it with a continuous link chain though. On a continuous, you can flip it, but to get to the other thrust side of the pin, you need to break the link and flip it that way. That gets you to the "commuter" or secondary thrust side.
No, I've never tried "flipping" at all. Hey, watch out! I'm on drugs, so I'm thinking way out (excuse me, had to load the bong) there with this flipping thing. I just figured "the wear is on one side of the pin," so why not flip it? I wasn't thinking frugal, I was thinking "design." If I were to flip, I'd paint an arrow on one link, R&R my (arrow) log, and flip every 1,000 miles. 10K is way too long. Even at 5K (to me) is too long. Sorry, let me "Stretch" the flip. My anal work is 1,000K. I see a standard flip no longer than 3K at a time.
For racing, no way! I'd toss the chain first. The last thing I want is a stress crack happening on two scored thrust sides! Street wise, no prob. A commuter could benefit by this I believe? If you think about it, burning down the toilet roll pin on one side, still equals the diameter of the pin if flipped....i.e. equal mileage on chains.
The stress on the plates going in either direction won't matter. The pins are still pulling the plates out from center. The spinning roller is having itself elongating problems, (adding to measured book stretch) spitting off chunks of particles... dissimilar metals against each other and all that. So, the rollers just keep rolling-on, wearing out just as equally. The rollers will spin in reverse. The wear pattern rolling in the opposite direction is another variable for caution.
I'd try it just to toss the theory out. Will it work, I don't know? Only way to try is with a fresh chain, and diligent record keeping.
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