BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted January 30, 2006 05:19 PM
where to get a leakdown tester
any input as to a good place to pick up a leakdown tester?
I've heard that I should be careful and get one for a motorcycle as our sparkplug threadings are different (smaller?) than a car's spark-plug hole.
I noticed one at Snap-On for like $299 and I was like, DAMN!!! C'aint afford that much for a very little used tool like a leak-down tester!!! 
  
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted January 30, 2006 05:21 PM
 Edited By: BA on 30 Jan 2006 17:22
crap, even this one is more than I thought it would be!
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/item.aspx?style=7986&department=646&division=6
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted January 30, 2006 05:27 PM
I believe APE sells them... not 100% though...
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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harryzx-12
Needs a job
Posts: 3643
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posted January 31, 2006 01:11 AM
I bought one from MAC. It wasn't too much and came with 10,14 and 18mm hoses and came in a nice case.
____________
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways- Body thoroughly used up, totally worn out...Screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride !!!"
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redelk
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Please... speak to the hand.
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posted January 31, 2006 05:35 AM
I use the Motion Pro,, but I paid closer to $120 when I bought it through my Kawi dealer. Though XL kinda poo-poos it over the Snap On version when it comes to accuracy, it seems to work okay for my purposes.
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gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted January 31, 2006 07:08 AM
Ewwwwwww!!!! I hate doing a leak down on my shit  I can't ever remember being totally happy with what it told me. If it's 5% I want 3. If it's 3 I want 1or less..... BUT mine are usually much worse than that because by the time I figure I need to do one something has caused me to think it needed it, and it usually did 
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted January 31, 2006 08:24 AM
if you are going to buy tools, do it right!
http://buy1.snapon.com/products/diagnostics/eepv309a.asp?tool=diagnostics&Item_id=16705&PartNo=EEPV309A&Price=299.95&Desc=&SUB_Cat_ID=3057048&SUB_Cat_NAME=Cylinder+Leakage+%2F+Engine+Vacuum+Gauges+And+Tester&Cat_ID=3057045&Cat_NAME=Fuel+And+Engine+Systems&group_id=1427&group_NAME=Cylinder+Leakage+Tester&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog&pix=objects%2F28300%2F28257.JPG&email=true
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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redelk
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posted January 31, 2006 10:13 PM
Ted, I couldn't agree with you more... if one was "building" a motor for racing or some other application were "absolute accuracy" is a "must". But for the average guy finds it hard to spend $350 (counting a 10mm adapter for most bikes like the 10R) or more for a "single purpose" tool they will rarely use.
I have seen and used both and the difference in their readings are not severe enough to warrant concern for someone who's just checking if there is a "serious" problem. Again, if someone is doing a "build up", by all means, get one that is worthy of what your spending on the motor itself.
Though I will always sing the praise of Snap On tools and their warranty, the fact remains that not everyone has that kind of money sitting around or made their living with the tools sitting in their garage.
I'd love nothing more than to have the race team buy me a Snap On Tool Wagon for those 6 to 8 hour endurance races we run, but at almost $12,000, they would be looking at either two good used race bikes or a new one that was seriously race prepared. You tell me where the team would likely spend that kind of money?
What they would tell me is that my Craftsman 5 drawer bottom box mounted to a Harbor Freight cart with a wooden flatbed and pneumatic wheels, was just fine and does what we need it to do. Of course, they wouldn't be helping in moving either one from our paddock to pit lane.
It doesn't matter. all I can do is look at the Snap On pictures anyway and get excited that my next "regular use" tool did NOT come from Harbor Freight and maybe even wasn't made in China. Because for me and my budget (and the team's), that is as good as it will ever get.
Now if you want to will to me all your Snap On stuff, I'll do my best to insure a "freak accident" doesn't happen.
I promise....
no.... REALLY!
Heck, I'll even put out a "two-thirds" effort for just half of your Snap On stuff. Until then, the MP version will just have to do for our purposes.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted February 01, 2006 08:18 AM
They're easy to build, once you get the concept, then all you have to buy is the spark plug hole adapter (get that from Snap On). Just borrow one and go to the air/hydraulic fitting store.
In my opinion, the leak rate test is the most important diagnostic tool you can have in your box. My practice (learned as a professional race car technician) is, when at the races,
do a quick leak rate every night before putting the race vehicle to bed. That way, if you've got a leaky valve or head gasket, you are free to work all night, and get ready for the next morning's festivities, instead of getting a big surprise ijn the AM.
Doug
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted February 01, 2006 08:29 AM
quote:
Now if you want to will to me all your Snap On stuff, I'll do my best to insure a "freak accident" doesn't happen.
I promise....
no.... REALLY!
Heck, I'll even put out a "two-thirds" effort for just half of your Snap On stuff. Until then, the MP version will just have to do for our purposes.
Yeah you and Tony Soprano.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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redelk
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posted February 01, 2006 06:22 PM
Oooooooooooo.... this will make XL squirm (he mocks my MP because someone else pays for his tools).
BA, you looking for an "inexpensive" leak down tester? Try the Astro Pneumatic Engine Cylinder Leak Down Test Kit (PN: AP7751). Available at many of the "discount" tool places. Price ranges from $60 to $105 ("Google it" for the best price).
Unlike the MP version, but like the Snap On version, the AP has two gauges (one for input PSI and the other for leak %). Also like the Snap On version, the AP does not come with a hose for a 10mm hole.
Here's a link on how to make your own for less than $40..
http://www.lafishmag.com/LeakDownTester.html
The Sears regulator w/gauge goes for about $23. Grainger has several regulators for under $20 (pg. 1446/Catalog 396). A pressure gauge doesn't come with it, so you'd have to get it separately for about $5 (pg.1994). IMHO, you'd want one that read in increments of no more then 2 PSI and 1 PSI increments (@ 100 PSI) would be preferable. I doubt if the Sears gauge goes that low.
Buxton Engineering sells a hose with a 10mm fitting for $15 (1/2 of the Snap On). Just make sure the quick connects are the same (I didn't check).
http://www.buxtonengineering.com/price_sheet.pdf
If you make or use one that just has PSI reading on the gauge, here's a handy table to use if your compressor can't maintain a constant 100 PSI.
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/long29a.htm
Keep in mind, if you make one, be sure none of the fittings leak. I've always used Teflon tape on my air fittings (no more than a single wrap or two). I've also read that slivers of the tape can and clog up valves, measuring gages and such. This seems to mostly apply to hydraulics more so than to air lines.
Though I haven't personally had a problem with such, but some recommend using either Loctite 545 (specifically for hydraulic/pneumatic applications) or Rectorseal #5.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted February 02, 2006 10:18 AM
Someone buys XL's tools? The lucky dog (if he gets to keep them). I just had to chime in because some of the people that have been here for a while know I am a tool nut from hell (remember the tool wars?) Anyway, years ago I built a leakdown tester using a compression tester and plumbed in an air fitting and removing the valve core from the tester. Worked great.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted February 03, 2006 09:35 PM
Thanks everyone.
Ted, that is exactly the one I had noticed that I referenced in my post. Dude, I don't have the cash flow to spend 299 on a tool that I'll use once every 3-7 years.
We use Grainger for some stuff at work. I kinda like the idea of getting the stuff from them and making my own tester..
I don't have their catalog here at home though. Red, You mentioned the one for $5, is Grainger going to have the good accuracy down to 1% and 2% like you mentioned? (couldn't imagine the $5 one being one of those.......)
I presume that the 10mm is what I'll need for the hose?
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted February 03, 2006 11:24 PM
A shop manual says to check compression with a warm engine. Do you check the same way with a leak down test?
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E-tard
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted February 04, 2006 04:33 AM
not neccessary to find major problems.
make sure your valves are COMPLETELY closed before you check.
If you are building, I like to check LEAAK-DOWN before i install valves.
Many valve leaks can be cured by tapping the valve bucket a few times
with pressure still on the cyclinder. Really can't explain it, but sometime
good valves stick not fully seated when you tear down and leave HEAD on the bench
for a while.
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redelk
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posted February 04, 2006 07:21 AM
Edited By: redelk on 4 Feb 2006 07:24
quote:
I don't have their catalog here at home though. Red, You mentioned the one for $5, is Grainger going to have the good accuracy down to 1% and 2% like you mentioned? (couldn't imagine the $5 one being one of those.......)
BA, here's a link to to their catalog in a PDF format. Its just like having the catalog (but without the "bulk").
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/viewCatalogPDF.shtml?browserCompatable=true&adobeCompatable=true&toolbar=true
You ought to be able to research which gauge would best suit you needs. If I was to build one, I'd think about getting the biggest gauge with the smallest increments that would fit on the regulator. My reasoning is that the bigger the gauge, the easier it is to accurately determine the number the needle is pointing at. Assuming that it has an acceptable tolerance.
Still, you'd be surprised how accurate "cheap" dial gauges are. If you want to be "anal" (like I would be), you could always spend a whopping $10 to $15 for the gauge and have one that would have superior accuracy. One that is far more accurate than the one used on my MP tester. In other words, there ain't a whole lot of difference.
When it comes to selecting both the gauge and the regulator, do NOT just refer to the page numbers I listed. As you probably know, the Grainger catalog has over 3,000 pages. You will find regulators and gauges in various locations in the catalog. Scan the pages in the 1440s and 1450s (and further if necessary) and you'll find all kinds of regulators ranging from $15 to $200+. The same for gauges.
What rates as "overkill" is up to you and your budget. Again, I believe a damn good tester can be had for less then $100 and a more than satisfactory tester can easily be put together for $50 (including the hose).
The most critical part in building your own is when putting it together, make sure none of your connections or fittings leak. Like I said earlier, if you use Teflon tape, no more than two wraps around the male threads is needed. Again, if you want to be "anal", you could always dab a little Loctite 545 on the start of the female threads, but it likely won't be necessary.
quote:
I presume that the 10mm is what I'll need for the hose?
Yep. Both the 12R and 10R are 10mm. Any bike that has a spark plug number that starts off with a "C" (i.e. CR9EK) is 10mm.
If you ever want to "decode" spark plug numbers, here's a helpful chart:
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/partnumberkey.pdf
Hope this helps.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted February 06, 2006 08:31 AM
quote:
Thanks everyone.
Ted, that is exactly the one I had noticed that I referenced in my post. Dude, I don't have the cash flow to spend 299 on a tool that I'll use once every 3-7 years.
We use Grainger for some stuff at work. I kinda like the idea of getting the stuff from them and making my own tester..
I don't have their catalog here at home though. Red, You mentioned the one for $5, is Grainger going to have the good accuracy down to 1% and 2% like you mentioned? (couldn't imagine the $5 one being one of those.......)
I presume that the 10mm is what I'll need for the hose?
It really doesn't make much sense to buy the really expensive stuff if you don't make your living out of a tool box. Although there are exceptions. The minimum for the home mechanic is:
Snap on 3/8 drive deep 6 point metric socket set 8-19
Snap on 3/8 drive ratchet (long with soft handle)
Snap on Screwdriver set
Even better if one gets (look on ebay) a set of Snap on metric wrenches.
Here is the bad part, this shit is more addicting than heroin.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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big al
Novice Class
Posts: 52
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posted February 06, 2006 12:18 PM
tavia .com
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
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posted February 06, 2006 07:08 PM
About $85 (+ shipping) for a Tavia with the optional 10mm.
http://www.tavia.com/cat8.html#3
Comes with two Dresser Instruments (Ashcroft is their distributor) pressure gauges with a +/- 3% tolerance.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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extremelean
Pro
Posts: 1651
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posted February 07, 2006 12:48 PM
OK damn it........ I BUY MY OWN TOOLS!!!!.....SHEEESH!!!
If you are doing leak downs on a daily basis.....I highly recomend the Snap-On unit...It is worth the price unless you have time to build your own (more power to you).
You can get some really nice ,accurate, large face gauges that read in increments of one...(Those are for the old guys that cant see very well any more).
AND my recomendation is to get a dual gauge leak down so you can see constant input pressure and leak percentage at the same time...forget about those lame single gauge deals.
AND.....If you can find an adapter with an O-ring to seal against the spark plug seating surface, you'd be far better off, as adapters with rubber washers tend to want to blow out at 100 psi....you then get an ironeous(spelling) reading.
READ MY LIPS redelk.........SNAP-ON
Are we clear
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
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posted February 07, 2006 09:45 PM
quote:
READ MY LIPS redelk.........SNAP-ON
Are we clear
Now that I shave down there, not only is it perfectly clear, but can you do that... I mean "say that" again. That felt good.
BTW - not only is it "erroneous", but it is also "recommend" and "recommendation".
When one considers who you "wrench for" AND how you... ... BUY MY OWN TOOLS!!!!.....SHEEESH!!!, I guess buying one's own Snap On tools not only doesn't automatically make one a better speller, but just proves you are way overpaid for what you do.
Say it again..... Snaaaaaaaaaaap Oooooooooooon..... Ummmmm, I do like it.
Now get back to work, bitch. You bother me.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted February 08, 2006 05:04 PM
quote:
READ MY LIPS .....SNAP-ON
Are we clear?
Crystal!
P.S. I put in the question mark for you.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted February 12, 2006 09:08 AM
Guess i'm a hardhead.
This is very close to the one i have.
works great.
www.harborfreight.com, $50
ITEM 4317-1VGA
I don't remember where i found the 10mm adapter, but it's the same one used on compression testers .
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extremelean
Pro
Posts: 1651
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posted February 15, 2006 08:25 PM
Thanks all.....School wasnt one of my favorite subjects...glad I've got so many teachers to help me along.
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted March 05, 2006 02:17 PM
Ok guys, I've acquired the parts, but I'm in need of some help again.
I bought the regulator at Sears. $22 bucks as freek noted
I bought the 10mm hose at Buxton. $20 with shipping. Nice piece, uses Goodyear hose.
I bought a 2.5", 100psi gauge from Grainger: $45 (#2C546- 1% accurate, page 1195)
Various air-fitting adapters: < $10 at Harbor Freight
So, here's my dilemma:
The regulator has 4 holes. 2 standard sized 1/4" NPT's for air fittings, and 2 slightly smaller holes, one of which has the Sears gauge in it.
It seemed that I don't actually use 2 gauges simultaneously right? I took off the Sears gauge and dog gone if my new Grainger gauge isn't the larger 1/4" NPT. It won't fit into the same spot. I certainly can't use the 1/4" spots on the regulator because they are for the air fittings.
I looked at Lowes, HD, Harbor Freight and a local mom & pop hardware store and CANNOT find an adapter from the 1/4" NPT to that smaller fitting size. I couldn't find a plug for the 4th hole either!
So, do they even make an adapter from 1/4" NPT to this smaller fitting? Did I just buy the wrong gauge and I HAVE to get one with the smaller fitting? I'm sure Grainger will take it back, they're good like that. I already took back the 4.5" gauge and said "hey this thing is waaaay too big!!!"
Thanks for the tips!
BA
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