johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted October 17, 2004 06:09 PM
Dynos blow up motors II
I heard another 12 took a dump on a dyno.
so is it 12's or is it really dynos doing it?
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
  
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ZCatDude
Novice Class
Posts: 58
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posted October 17, 2004 06:58 PM
My 12 had over 40 pulls on Motorhead's dyno without problem a few months ago and just had 25 more on one here in Nashville a couple weeks ago without issue.
It is turbo with 1270 J&E pistons.
My buddie's 1270 Nitrous 12 has been on several dynos without problem.
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Canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted October 17, 2004 07:56 PM
what turbo kits are you guys running on your 1270's? Velocity?
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beansbaxter
Needs a life
Posts: 5911
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posted October 17, 2004 08:35 PM
swft...didnt you use to have your own dyno with zhool?
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted October 17, 2004 11:25 PM
yep, I think the dyno cause mine to blow this weekend...
damn dyno's. I had 400 passes about on my stroker motor and 10 little dyno pulls and it goes at my 401st run at the track...
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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Ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted October 18, 2004 05:12 AM
I am not sure if I should even post, but I believe that I am going to the data log way of dialing in my motor. I still believe the stress of the dyno and the stress of acceleration on the road is different. My observations.
Extremely sorry to hear about your motor Mike. It is a strange "coinsidence" what happened to you. But that same coinsidence happens to thousands of other guys. If it doesn't blow on the dyno, it is right after dyno pulls.
No one ever did explain why the magazine testers were "surprised" that the test bike didn't LOSE any power after the dyno testing.
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eastbaydave
Needs a job
Posts: 2245
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posted October 18, 2004 05:42 AM
56 Dynojunk runs on the ZRX1100.....4 years later & it's still running strong...(streetbike)...
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Enjoy the ride!
02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted October 18, 2004 06:56 AM
Come on Jonny!!!.......You know better than that!
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted October 18, 2004 08:24 AM
I think it is just the 12's that blow on dynos sure don'y hear about this on Busas.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 18, 2004 08:43 AM
From some experience with "Water Brake" Dyno's of the past (That really knew how to Puke an engine) I think the new programs with the 250 rpm separations and keeping the bike loaded for the extended periods of time "WILL KILL AN ENGINE"!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted October 18, 2004 08:58 AM
In my case I do not feel that it was the dyno, I feel it was more to it. a couple of things I did that I do not do, that I feel I should have.
1st, I should have split my cases and checked my bearings last winter. had 150+ passes on them, and I did not.
2nd. after the dyno pulls, I should have changed my oil!! I did not.
3rd. when making my first pass. I rode up and left the bike running, a car broke and I still left it running, I should not have.
I believe the 1st and second were most important,
by the way does anyone know how hot oil needs to be to start foaming to cause cavation?
Thanks.
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted October 18, 2004 09:04 AM
I think the dyno you were on the operator sucked I would sue him for putting it on the dyno in the first place. he was a loser anyway his bike was sitting in the corner all broken down looking like crap
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Ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted October 18, 2004 09:34 AM
Mike, I believe the piston will seize in the block from overheating before the oil will foam.
1) If you pull the pan and see NO copper, then bearing are okay. So no need to split the cases.
2) Why would you treat dyno pulls different if they are less stress on the motor vs full throttle after 10 1/4mi passes?
3) Letting your bike idle at the track or sitting in traffic.......same thing.
The dyno changed the condition of your motor internally.
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted October 18, 2004 09:59 AM
 Edited By: osti33 on 18 Oct 2004 11:08
quote:
I think the dyno you were on the operator sucked I would sue him for putting it on the dyno in the first place. he was a loser anyway his bike was sitting in the corner all broken down looking like crap
LMAO!!! 
Too funny Johnny.
My bike is still alive. Same dyno on the same day with the same operator...
Couldn't have been the operator. We will have to look into this further...Hmmmm
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted October 18, 2004 11:11 AM
Maybe I should sue his ass....and charge him milage also. 
and RA, there was a bunch of copper in the pan. but by then it is to late, I should have looked for wear in the off season last year. and on changing my oil? I just feel better, also I do change my oil about every 15 passes, and I had 1 race and the dyno pulls, so that would be about the same. after the dyno I just like to evaluate what the oil looks like.
as far as sitting in traffic, the only traffic my bike will see is in the staging lanes.
I will let everyone know either way. the one thing I did notice was there was quite a bit of small shavings. very small in size. which I thought was very strange? as much as I have changed my oil this year I have found only a small amount of metal in the oil, over the life of this motor. on the next rebuild I will be very careful about documenting everything and evaluate the next rebuild for all to see!
Mad Mike
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted October 18, 2004 12:43 PM
anyone ever blow up the motor on a dyno have a oil pressure gauge attached? Perhaps the accumulator would prevent this?
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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NINJAFREEK2
Parking Attendant
Posts: 22
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posted October 18, 2004 02:27 PM
Mine has only been on the Dyno 2 times.
Hell everytime I talk to Johnny,about 12's he scares me.(LOL)
I can't complain my 1290 has done me justice, Thought it may have been going bad, but It was the PC3r that failed.
How many pc3r failures on the zx12's out there?
You may not know it but if it's hard as hell to start when hot that is also a symptom.
Called them today they said to send it in they would check it out.
I'll post results
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted October 18, 2004 02:55 PM
damnit. If dyno's blow up motors, how will I get my custom map done next spring? CRAPOLA.
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johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted October 18, 2004 03:22 PM
quote:
Mine has only been on the Dyno 2 times.
Hell everytime I talk to Johnny,about 12's he scares me.(LOL)
I can't complain my 1290 has done me justice, Thought it may have been going bad, but It was the PC3r that failed.
How many pc3r failures on the zx12's out there?
You may not know it but if it's hard as hell to start when hot that is also a symptom.
Called them today they said to send it in they would check it out.
I'll post results
you know that was Mike bike you were eyeing that I told you we should snag the PC3r
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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Five 0
Expert Class
Posts: 215
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posted October 18, 2004 03:29 PM
Cheese
Hey Cheese, check your PM. Call me or send your info
5-0
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1bad12r
Zone Head
Posts: 567
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posted October 18, 2004 04:56 PM
Plenty of room on tha bench wit me and bergie. Have a seat guys !
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768 Ryderz
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ZCatDude
Novice Class
Posts: 58
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posted October 18, 2004 05:33 PM
CM - My turbo is custom built by Horsepower Unlimited out of Nashville, Tennessee. Mike Chestnut is Horsepower Unlimited and he is probably responcible for most high horsepower Kaw 750 turbos out there. I have close to 4000 miles of pretty hard running on my motor without problem and as mentioned above , a bunch of dyno pulls.
Turbo is a Garrett T3/T4 hybred unit and the bike is very tractable to streetride.
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Canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted October 18, 2004 05:46 PM
ZCatDude: I would love to hear more about that system. I am thinking turbo for the future, and despite the difficulties of turboing the 12R, I really don't want to get a Busa just for the turbo. I think that logic is kind of screwy: buy a bike you don't like just because it's the path of least resistance...the bike is still pretty ugly...even with the hairdrier. If you don't mind me asking....what are the gory details...cost, engine mods to make it survive, cosmetic issues, frame/plennum issues, final HP output, etc. Feel free to PM if you're not comfortable sharing this info publicly. Also would this kit still work with a 1270 or is a bigger turbo needed?
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Ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted October 18, 2004 05:49 PM
What type of shavings? Like the other threads on this same issue, Dyno's will find ANY weakness and exploit it.
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All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
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Canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted October 18, 2004 07:05 PM
Edited By: Canadamaxxer on 18 Oct 2004 20:06
RA: Once again.....how do you propose that dyno's find weaknesses? In the past you demonized dyno's by giving the impression that they create an artificially high load. Your statements now do not support your earlier ideas. Have you changed your mind? Previously, you used to say that dyno's CREATED weaknesses. Now it sounds like you are backing off of that concept. Which is it? Dyno's EXPLOIT weaknesses....or Dyno's CREATE weaknesses? You can't have it both ways. Your most recent statements suggest that this is NOT like the previous threads. One other thing: Thousands of failures? Really? Maybe we all should start asking Dyno operators and start keeping track of real numbers before coming up with generalizations like that. I know the operators I've talked to come up with a grand total of ZERO failures. We 've been through this before......
Maybe Johnnycheese is onto something by saying that there may be an inherent flaw in the ZX12 engine, but even that just proves what people have been saying all along: if there is a flaw in the engine, it is more likely to be found on a dyno. That doesn't mean the dyno is to blame....it means there is a design flaw. From what I remember the ZX11 had a flaw that had to be fixed....is it possible that something similar has to be done to eliminate the flaw (if there actually is one) on the 12R?
I still say that I'd rather have the engine pop on the dyno than at 150-160 MPH at the big end of the dragstrip or at 200 MPH+ at Maxton.
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