entropy
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posted September 23, 2004 02:40 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 13 Mar 2006 04:41
Hans test: seems like it DOES work...(NEW data!)
Thanks to the LM-1 data logger I have a bit of new info on the Hans snorkle. Info is from last week at 1/4 mi.
WOT, 11,000rpm+/-, 70mph (just before 1-2 shift) = 29.2inHg
WOT, 11,000rpm+/-, 152mph (nr top of 5th) = 29.9inHg
____________________increase in int pressure = 0.7inHg
air that nite:
temp___91
BP_____29.91
RH_____55
with that air
29.2inHg = 95.2% hp factor
29.9inHg = 98.0% hp factor
____________2.8% hp factor increase due to incr intake pressure
Conclusion:
at my 210hp+/-, 2.8% hp factor incr = 5.9hp increase due to Hans RAM air.
Next step:
the Q that remains is what is the pressure/hp incr with a well sealed OEM snorkle...
Now that I can log rpm, tps, airbox temp, int pressure, and rwmph I sould be able to get the right info to make real comparisons. maybe...
BTW: does anyone have a digi version of that RAM wind tunnel testing that was does several years ago. (wasn't there one???)
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zx12richard
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The Green Monster..
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posted September 23, 2004 04:39 PM
Edited By: zx12richard on 23 Sep 2004 17:42
Fuck I sold mine....
Looks like Fearsome Kawasaki might have been right...
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dotster
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posted September 23, 2004 07:24 PM
Edited By: dotster on 23 Sep 2004 21:07
hehe
I still got mine on my bike...
but we'll see how the results keep going.. liable to go the other way as well as not
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entropy
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posted September 24, 2004 01:07 AM
Now I'm real interested in how the OEM compares...  3 yrs ago, i didn't get any improvement in top end w/the Hans over the OEM. 201mph was the same.
hmmmmmm.....
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psycho1122
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posted September 25, 2004 09:39 AM
Edited By: psycho1122 on 30 Oct 2004 09:11
Don't worry Richard 
doster...hehehe
I would recommend doing some static testing using the output voltage of the Intake Pressure Sensor as a Control.
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entropy
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posted September 25, 2004 11:08 AM
psycho,
what do you mean?
I do use the output voltage of the pressure sensor (as input to the LM-1). I calibrated the volts/pressure table of the LM-1 by using a static condition, engine off, butterflys open, and used my hand held weather station as a control and my Fluke to get corresponding output voltage. That point fell real close to the wworkshop manual graph. Then i used the graph in the workshop manual to get another point, thus completing the table for the Lm-1.
I'm no expert on this stuff, so i'm looking for tips all the time.
With the bike off, the pressure differences of the atmosphere (my handheld) on different days compare well to what the LM-1 graph is showing.
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psycho1122
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posted September 25, 2004 10:53 PM
Edited By: psycho1122 on 30 Oct 2004 09:12
What I meant by "static" is on a Dyno.
It's cool to see that the LM-1 connects to existing sensors on the bike.
If you recall, I did not get a voltage increase at the intake pressure sensor above ambient at any given time or speed. You DID NOT either.... Interesting.
You did however see a LOSS in pressure at 70 m.p.h. (Compared to your ambient reading)
I did compare the increase in pressures over static voltages on the dyno.
The Hans LOST voltage as speed increased on the road, where the stock snorkel reached and maintained ambient pressure as soon as 40 mph at W.O.T.
Keep us posted!
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Marcos Peguero
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posted September 26, 2004 02:24 PM
That is a 210hp egine, I realy dont think that in a stock engine will work
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ZXLNT
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posted September 27, 2004 02:03 AM
Why would that be Marcos???
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Marcos Peguero
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posted September 27, 2004 03:28 AM
I think that there is a relation betwen the entrance of air, engine cc and air box capacity.
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NINJA12
Needs a job
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posted September 27, 2004 06:42 AM
The bigger engine would require more air, thus take more air volume to reach ambient pressure . right?
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
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posted September 27, 2004 09:02 AM
But didn't the earlier test show it didn't pressurize as much as the stock snorkel did? That would make it even worse with a big air hog like a stroker....
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entropy
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posted September 27, 2004 09:23 PM
the real question is how does the stock snorkle pressure compare with the Hans. If the stocker generates more ram air pressure, i'll be selling the Hans to a carbon fiber freek
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psycho1122
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posted September 28, 2004 07:55 AM
Note the edit to my previeous post.
You will need to do a speed run above 150 mph (Ram assist is not optimized untill then) to see how the Hans will start to loose "Ram Effect"
Note; the stocker will reach and maintain AMBIENT as soon as 40 mph. Your Hans was DOWN at 70! However it did recover by the time you reached the traps. Running up to 180 mph will reveal more info to you.
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psycho1122
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posted October 30, 2004 08:07 AM
Any new info on this????
Or does your weather this time of year hamper you.
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entropy
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posted October 31, 2004 01:07 AM
Edited By: entropy on 31 Oct 2004 01:10
weather is just starting to get good, dipping down into the 70's occaisionally. We are just entering the hp time of the year for the mosquito coast.
I figured i have enough logged passes on the Hans for a solid comparison, so i pulled it and mounted the OEM. Haven't run it yet because I toasted the motor (plugged oil pick up screen).
motor is going back together but i'm gathering frequent flyer miles for the next 2 weeks so it'll be a bit before testing resumes.
stay tuned!
psycho: some day we gotta sit down, have beers, compare notes. Seems like we have similar persistant & systematic approach to this stuff. I'm sure i'd learn a lot from you.
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psycho1122
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posted November 01, 2004 08:24 AM
Edited By: psycho1122 on 1 Nov 2004 08:25
The feeling is mutual entropy;
Ever get out to ARIZONA?! We got big twisties out here....AND of course NHRA does winter test here for a reason!!
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entropy
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posted November 01, 2004 08:56 AM
i don't get to arizona too often, but who knows....
I trying to put a Monterrey mexico drag stip visit together, how far is that for you?
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psycho1122
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posted November 01, 2004 01:06 PM
Don't go to Mexico...especially w/ the 12....Sorry
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entropy
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posted March 13, 2006 04:00 AM
Edited By: entropy on 13 Mar 2006 04:29
OK psycho, it took me a year and a half to get arout to this:
here is some data on OEM vs Hans (this AIN'T gonna format right)
10.7rpm 10.5rpm mph
OEM RAM 75mph 152mph delta "hg delta 1/8, 1/4
5-Mar-06 29.80 30.20 0.40 26.900
5-Mar-06 29.40 30.00 0.60 27.500
10-Mar-06 29.00 29.60 0.60 cutting out ??
10-Mar-06 29.20 29.70 0.50 27.400
10-Mar-06 29.20 29.80 0.60 ran low on fuel
ave 0.54 27.27
Hans RAM
12-Mar-06 29.10 29.80 0.70 let off gas
12-Mar-06 29.10 29.90 0.80 27.600
12-Mar-06 29.20 29.90 0.70 27.700
12-Mar-06 29.20 29.80 0.60 27.600
ave 0.70 27.63
Looks like:
1. the Hans snorkle gains about 0.16" Hg more MAP than OEM between 70 & 150
- using air/hp % factor calculator this = .7% hp factor increase; for my motor = 1.4hp increase
2. 0.4 mph benefit between 1/8 and 1/4
Bottom line form my data:
The Hans consistently creates slightly more MAP than OEM, resulting in a small mph gain
Worth $450??? that's yr call, but know that it reduces the amount you can lower yr forks byt at least 1/2" 
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psycho1122
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posted March 13, 2006 06:31 AM
First Question:
What was your "Control" (Ambient) readings BEFORE each run. Bike off with sytem on.
Second: Are you reading off the KHI Intake Pressure sensor?
Also; either you have VERY low ambient Barometric conditions OR, you airbox appears to be in a Vaccume condition most of the time.
My testing revealed with a Stock Snorkel that I would reach Ambient by as low as 40 m.p.h. at WOT.
Additionally, how much larger than stock is the engine you are running in these tests?
Lastly; Did you obtain any Static readings on a Dyno with BOTH snorkels?
Look forward to your reply 
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psycho1122
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posted March 13, 2006 06:35 AM
I also Just noticed that your testing was done on three different days. It will be even more significant that we have the BEFORE test Ambient pressure's at your sensor with the engine off.
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psycho1122
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posted March 13, 2006 06:40 AM
Also, If I may ask...Could you re format the data? It is difficult to translate what is what. It looks as if Both your snorkels drop pressure as you approach the trapps!
BTW, I did not notice any gains OVER ambient with my OE snorkel untill I was well over 150 mph. However! Ambient is still better than Vaccume
THANKS!
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entropy
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posted March 13, 2006 08:24 AM
I am measuring pressure at the MAP sensor (takes pressure below the butterfly's) which mostly runs a partial vacuum wrt ambient.
yes indeed the passes were made on different days; a PITA to change the snorkles out at the track.
both snorkles increased pressure going from 70 to 150.
I did not measure ambient, but fri mar 10 it was 29.8, and sun mar 13 it was also 29.8 (but VERY humid)
my engine is a 1427 running 48mm TB's and 15:1 CR
Bottom line for me is that I will run the Hans until i come down from a wheelie and smash it due to the reduces fender to snorkle clearance
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supra5677
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posted March 13, 2006 11:15 AM
With a good exhaust and tune.. the zx12r is rated at 210hp at the crank with ram air..
BTW Fearsome K is ALWAYS right... not to be on his nutsack or anything. But everything he quotes, I do my own research and basically confirm everything he already says.
supra
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