VincentHill
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posted March 08, 2004 05:16 PM
Arias Pistons??
Right now, I like the MTC Pistons more than JE. Randall mentioned Arias. I see that they have made pistons for over 40 years, but does anyone know anything about them??
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TurboBlew
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posted March 08, 2004 07:07 PM
Ask Shawn Garrigan how he feels about them....lol
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dougmeyer
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posted March 08, 2004 08:37 PM
Vincent,
IMHO, all the big piston manufacturers make good parts. Each of them does better on some applications than on others. That's why we buy from different manufacturers depending on the use. I'd suggest that you trust the people who put together kits and stand behind them or you'll need to buy the various parts and acess and test them for yourself.
Doug
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k bryant
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Sponsor
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posted March 08, 2004 09:46 PM
 Edited By: k bryant on 8 Mar 2004 21:47
Arias, JE, Ross, Mahle, MTC, had good luck with all from past experiences. JE deserves a second look. John Noonan, works there and he's a full on turbo-bike-meister! No complaints. Worked with Arias a lot when Honda Jim was there. Can't recall any problems. Actually, can't complain about any of them. Doug's right!
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
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posted March 09, 2004 03:57 AM
Vincent, I've had good luck with the JE pistons that are included with the Muzzys package for the 12R. Unless you're getting something custom made I would recommend picking up the kit as Doug mentioned, plus you get the good customer support that follows.
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kcadby
Pro
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posted March 09, 2004 09:49 AM
Elmer Trett used ARIAS pistons many years ago...
I was talking to him one time when he said...he had to order SEVERAL sets of pistons to get ONE GOOD set for his fueller...
He ordered 2-sets of ARIAS and was able to use all 8 of them!!!
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VincentHill
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posted March 09, 2004 10:03 AM
Thanks for the "Serious" Replys. The #1 problem with the "Kits" is they are all for a "Larger" engine. My fault that I did not explain that I only want to change the Pistons and want them in "Standard" Size. I personally feel that the thicker the walls are and the more clamping surface you have, the less chance you will have of blowing a Head gasket. Bergie, you were there when we were looking at the differences between the JE and MTC Piston. Are you telling me that the engine is better off "acclelerating and decelerating" a heavier piston?
One of my thoughts has been why we do not see Wrist Pins made out of "Ti"? I am wondering why it cannot be treated to be slippery and make a great bearing surface, or is it a money thing? My thought is to buy the strongest possible piston and then when I go Turbo, all I would need to do is put in a "Spacer" to lower the compression and save the time of Break in of New Rings again, not to mention the cost of a different set of Pistons & Rings!
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VincentHill
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posted March 09, 2004 11:44 AM
quote:
Vincent,
IMHO, all the big piston manufacturers make good parts. Each of them does better on some applications than on others. That's why we buy from different manufacturers depending on the use. I'd suggest that you trust the people who put together kits and stand behind them or you'll need to buy the various parts and acess and test them for yourself.
Doug
Doug, do you guys have "Standard" size pistons that would be good for a Heavy load of NOS?
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted March 09, 2004 03:33 PM
Vincent, you're still planning on running that nitrous right?
Not that the MTC's can't handle it, but as great as a lighter piston is, there's also a question of whether it is then properly suited to work under repeated high load, long duration nitrous. (ie. not 8-9 seconds)
I also think that the JE's are worth another look, and picked them based upon the shops that sell them as part of their kits. Hope I made the right decision! 
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted March 09, 2004 03:56 PM
Vincent what I'm telling you is that you won't see much if any difference in performance between any of the top brands of pistons. Get the kit. Spray it. Dont Be Scared.
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VincentHill
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posted March 09, 2004 05:53 PM
Bergie, the main differences in the way I build and engine from a "Lot" of other builders is my #1 Concern is "Longevity". I like to over build at the slight loss of peak power just to have what I have a little longer. On my 2 valve engines, I had 1.25 mm wide seat contact on the exhaust side and .75 mm on the intake side where most people were using .5 mm on the intake and .75 to 1.0 mm on the exhaust side.
This is why I am taking such a careful look at Pistons. The construction of the MTC was better (IMHO) than the JE. The main weight difference was because of the shorter wrist pins. It is not the Power differences in the pistons, but the life of the big end bearings, crank flex and eventually the cases. If I end up with a heavy piston, It will be the best made and strongest piston with all of the weight in the places that take abuse and heat (Read piston Crown and wrist pin support). This is why I am also taking a look at the "Arias" Pistons.
Bergie, no Kits for me. I am different and my bikes are different and this has been my "KEY" to success. Examples are, I was too big to go fast in the "Light Weight" class in the AMA to get enough points for an expert License. I first tried a Bighorn road racer with a lot of neat stuff and finally ended up with a 220 pound 54 inch wheel base road racer that used a TZ 250 D engine with Air Cooled Primary gears and spun the engine to 13,000 every race and changed cranks every 250 miles. I knew that the bike would not gain weight and having (then unheard of) Dual disc front brakes that were 12.5 inches and a heavier 1 disc the same size on the rear. With this combo I got my expert license and #4 rated Amature in the country. Now what I had is still pretty good considering I raced this almost 30 years ago. Finally, if I was 125 pounds "LESS", 40 Years Younger and had the money I have today I could be like "Everyone Else" and buy the factory race bikes and go racing. Does everyone understand my thinking now? Sorry to take so much time on this but if you do not study History, then you are bound to repeat it. I have never made the same mistake 3 times (Sometimes the 2nd time just to make sure  )
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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dougmeyer
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posted March 09, 2004 08:23 PM
Yes, Vincent. We have a ZX-12 stock bore JE for the race car engines. You can order them from us, I think we may be out of stock right now but get them on order. I have a set for my car. Ti is not a good material for pins unless it is treated with some fairly exotic plating (unless you are going to replace them often). With all due respect, what we (I mean all of us) do with these parts really isn't that exotic. I think "best results" are often achieved by buying proven parts, and just doing a good job of assembly and tuning. There are no secret weapons out there. This has all been done ad nauseam, it's just that many people don't do a very good job of using what's available.
Remember, we sell what we race and we do pretty well.
Doug
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VincentHill
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posted March 10, 2004 06:19 AM
Thanks DM, I know that Muzzy would have the pistons made to their specs and if I end up with "JE", they will be from you. Also "VERY" glad to hear that you do have something in "STD" size. I am in the "Investigate before you invest" mode and plan to be finished in a few weeks.
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
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posted March 10, 2004 12:00 PM
One piece of advice I always fall back on is dont over complicate things. You can spend 100 hours and $10,000 putting a 12R engine together or you can spend 1/10th that time and money and make the same power and last just as long. It reminds me of the guys that polish their cars instead of driving them, spending too much time cleaning is a waste of time! Keep it simple and beat the snot out of it.
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VincentHill
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posted March 10, 2004 01:05 PM
Good advice and I have learned to spend my time on research (Other People's) then I do not have to spend / waste the money on my own research. I have a Very Simple plan. Put a new fuel outlet in the tank to feed the NOS Fuel pump. Drill out the NOS Injector needles to fit the NX Jets. Test this combo to make sure it works correctly. Get a set of Pistons and Cometic gaskets with APE Valve springs and Ti retainers and put my engine together and clean up the ports (No reshaping). Put on the stock Sub Frame and break in the engine. Change the sub frame back and finish a few "Areo" Details unter the seat and with the width of the windshield and I am ready for some dyno tune time and then it is off to the races.
Can I get any simpler?
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MadMike
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posted March 10, 2004 04:24 PM
Hey Vince, you have a PM..
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VincentHill
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posted March 11, 2004 09:46 AM
Doug Meyer, do you have a "Part" number for that set of STD Pistons? I hope that they include rings. Do they use "Stock" Wrist pins? Remember I am going to be using between 100 to 150 shot of nos. (As long as I can spray enough extra gasoline to off set the NOS and get a good A/F Ratio)
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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