zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
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posted October 11, 2007 07:15 AM
quote:
Bottom line is the 04-05 10 was a better bike (read as quicker, faster, better handling) than the CBR was. History has already spoken on this. Why are you trying to sell this to me?
And in 06-07 the ZX10 gained weight and kept the brakes that sucked while the 06-07 CBR gained hp and lost weight. Not a whole lot of "ground to make up" when they weigh the same and are within a few hp of one another.
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zx12adam
Member
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posted October 11, 2007 08:33 AM
quote:
they sure did look slower when I blew by them on any of the other 3.
Well that means absolutely nothing. I was passing the 06 literbikes on an old stock "slow" 2002 954 at the track easily. Does that mean the ZX10, GSXR1000, and R1 are "slow" because I reeled them in and went around them without any problems on a 135 hp, 4 year old, "not even a liter"bike? I even passed them on the straights, according to you this means the 954 is faster.
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zx1kr
Pro
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posted October 11, 2007 09:56 AM
quote:
quote:
they sure did look slower when I blew by them on any of the other 3.
Well that means absolutely nothing. I was passing the 06 literbikes on an old stock "slow" 2002 954 at the track easily. Does that mean the ZX10, GSXR1000, and R1 are "slow" because I reeled them in and went around them without any problems on a 135 hp, 4 year old, "not even a liter"bike? I even passed them on the straights, according to you this means the 954 is faster.
I'm not talkin about reelin in some squid I just rolled up on in the street/track. I'm talkin about guys that I ride with, that are skilled motorcyclists. We went out and rolled on with each other to see for ourselves how much of a diff there really was. Discussed the pros & cons of the bikes then, tried it again at diff rpm,speed etc. to see if the results could be affected as such.
I'm quite aware of how much of a diff. rider ability makes. I have lapped Ducati 1098s on the track while riding a nicely prepped ZX636. They definitely did look more stylish though! lol!!!
Do me a favor, wait till somebody that you believe is a reputable venue(besides a Honda brochure) for a test on this bike compared to with it's competition. Then I will gladly hear all the excuses ah, explainations for the results.
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zx1kr
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posted October 11, 2007 09:57 AM
And who told you that a 954 makes 135hp?
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zx12adam
Member
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posted October 11, 2007 12:20 PM
They dyno'ed between 130 and 140 depending on the miles/dyno.
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zx1kr
Pro
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posted October 11, 2007 01:01 PM
quote:
They dyno'ed between 130 and 140 depending on the miles/dyno.
I'm just breakin' yer balls.
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted October 11, 2007 02:13 PM
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zx12adam
Member
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posted October 11, 2007 04:20 PM
quote:
quote:
They dyno'ed between 130 and 140 depending on the miles/dyno.
I'm just breakin' yer balls.
Reminds me of a "modified" 300 quote:
"It is merely a nut; God seemed fit to grace me with a spare."
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kram
Expert Class
Posts: 404
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posted October 18, 2007 02:34 AM
 Edited By: kram on 18 Oct 2007 03:36
I'd hit it.
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elaying
Parking Attendant
Posts: 23
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posted October 18, 2007 10:56 AM
Edited By: elaying on 18 Oct 2007 11:58
the face when viewed from the side is so ugly, sort of looks like a throw back of the 98 900rr, the face that is
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted October 18, 2007 06:04 PM
quote:
They dyno'ed between 130 and 140 depending on the miles/dyno.
Wow not that I ever saw. I've seen 2 stockers dyno at 110 and 114. A piped and PCII'ed one dyno'd on a different dyno at 125. My TL1000R hit 125 on the first dyno and 135 on the second dyno. AND it had more torque. Those bikes were not fast, but a fast rider can make anything seem fast I guess. Nice job! Though even with my severe gearing and mods the 2006 Gixxer 1000 reeled me in and spit me out bone stock in multiple rollons. BUT the R1's of any year always lost in any race to me  all show and no go
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zx1kr
Pro
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posted October 18, 2007 06:13 PM
quote:
quote:
They dyno'ed between 130 and 140 depending on the miles/dyno.
Wow not that I ever saw. I've seen 2 stockers dyno at 110 and 114. A piped and PCII'ed one dyno'd on a different dyno at 125. My TL1000R hit 125 on the first dyno and 135 on the second dyno. AND it had more torque. Those bikes were not fast, but a fast rider can make anything seem fast I guess. Nice job! Though even with my severe gearing and mods the 2006 Gixxer 1000 reeled me in and spit me out bone stock in multiple rollons. BUT the R1's of any year always lost in any race to me all show and no go
I have an R1 I'd love for you to meet!
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stevewfl
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posted October 18, 2007 06:14 PM
R1 all show and no go? man thats profound, you outa' come out to the track with us sometime
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zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
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posted October 19, 2007 04:46 AM
Edited By: zx12adam on 19 Oct 2007 06:23
quote:
quote:
They dyno'ed between 130 and 140 depending on the miles/dyno.
Wow not that I ever saw. I've seen 2 stockers dyno at 110 and 114. A piped and PCII'ed one dyno'd on a different dyno at 125. My TL1000R hit 125 on the first dyno and 135 on the second dyno. AND it had more torque. Those bikes were not fast, but a fast rider can make anything seem fast I guess. Nice job! Though even with my severe gearing and mods the 2006 Gixxer 1000 reeled me in and spit me out bone stock in multiple rollons. BUT the R1's of any year always lost in any race to me all show and no go
Right.
There's some potential for some funny jokes in there, but when are you posting the punchlines?
And where do you live?
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted October 19, 2007 05:30 AM
Edited By: Sticks_n_Stones on 19 Oct 2007 06:32
A friend of mine has an 05 R1 that dyno'd at 165hp which was enough to win the crown at a local 'dyno shootout' last year. But not enough to pull on my bike. Thats with a PCIII and exhaust on his bike too. I pulled HIM until he hit his narrow ass powerband were he would pull a few feet on me then he shifted and I was reeling him back in until that 1-2,000 rpm where he surged. But overall I had him edged. Just in case you think he cant ride, well ask anyone on the PNWRiders.com forums about Djoplin. Hes one of there best riders and I believe a moderator now. He also came in first at the yearly "open to all" 125 mile (I believe) race they run at Pacific Raceways in Washington. And that was the first official race he ever entered I was told. And he never could lose me  Hell, last time we went balls out was on Mt Baker and he wrecked trying to keep me from passing him. Wrecked because he couldnt make his braking point from a 160mph straight where I nearly passed him so he burned in hotter than he could handle. Anyways ask HIM about his bike verse mine. He's had numerous R1's and readily admits they dont have the power of the Gixxer or 10R. They sure made decent dyno PEAK numbers though. Seriously, go ask him. Or ask any of the other guys that have ridden with me (names Sticks n Stones there but they know me by Tracy on the TLR).
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zx12adam
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posted October 19, 2007 05:38 AM
Where do you live?
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted October 19, 2007 06:04 AM
Granite Falls Washington State. East of Everett.
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zx1kr
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posted October 19, 2007 08:39 AM
R1 vs. Gixxer1k or zx10-r? Yea,the R1 will get it's ass handed to it. But, against a TL1000? Not! If you were alittle closer I'd gladly show ya.
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted October 19, 2007 08:56 AM
My TL1000R is an '02 with PCII, K&N w/ airbox mod, TRE, full Muzzie exhaust and most importantly 1 down and 2 up sprockets. Max speed is around 160mph but the trade off is well worth it. Find a R1 owner around me who is near stock and I'll put $50 on it. Not including the '07 or '08 R1's. Havent run them yet so won't put money on that. From a roll or stop. But not a stop if the guys a dragracer- I aint that stupid. I think...
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zx12adam
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posted October 19, 2007 02:16 PM
I wish you lived in the SouthEast.
I don't even need another R1, I'd walk off on a mostly stock 954. You think 954's with pipes/PCIII only make 110 hp? That explains alot, you're severly mislead. I considered buying a TLR about 10 years ago. Too bad it's now a 10 year old bike.
HP:
Stock the 954 makes 130-140, and 140-150 with the basic pipe/PCIII/airboxmod/etc. Yours struggles to make 120 stock so it starts at a significant disadvantage. And "PCII, K&N w/ airbox mod, TRE, full Muzzie exhaust and most importantly 1 down and 2 up sprockets" isn't anything I'd consider "heavily modded" as they are only basic bolt-on mods. You're lucky if you see 130.
Torque:
HP isn't everything, however the 75 ft/lbs coming from a Tiller isn't anything record breaking, especially when other 4 cylinder literbikes are putting out the same or more. The 04 R1 made 75 too. Even the "slow" 954 makes 70 stock.
Top Speed:
-1+2 gearing to a stock TLR won't get you to 160 MPH, they barely do that stock. It will say so on the speedometer but your severe gearing throws it off even more than what it is when it leaves the factory with.
Weight:
Stock a 954 weighs 430 pounds, with you pushing 505 pounds you're at a HUGE disadvantage.
Suspension:
The TLR's Rotary suspension sucked new and was shot within 5,000 miles, hopefully you've upgraded yours to a conventional unti, however your rear exhaust pipe will fry it quick too.
Certainly not very convincing.
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted October 19, 2007 09:50 PM
Your numbers are all off adam. You are referencing the first gen TL not my last gen TLR. It weighs 15 more pounds than the R1 of same year (2002). It listed at 135 hp and with my basic mods and 15000 break in miles the dyno read 125. It's rev limiter was adjusted higher to 11,000 rpm instead of 10,000. A whole bunch of engine mods to between the original TL and mine. Really hard to find accurate info online the bike was rarely reviewed aft 1999, even though it went thru a significant rework in 2001. The extra thousand rpms help and I have a speedohealer on it. Appears to be accurate against a radar speed warning sign to 70 mph (what I adjusted it to). And it hits the rev limiter so hard it actually over revs to nearly 12000 rpms before coming back. It could easily go another 10mph at least. Bottom line: it just works, and works well.
TL 1000 R 1999
Overall Length: 2 100 mm (82,6 in)
Wheelbase: 1 395 mm (54,9 in)
Dry Weight: 197 kg (434 lbs)
Engine: 135 hp (98,6 kW)/ 9.500 rpm, 105 Nm/ 7.500 rpm.
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zx12adam
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posted October 20, 2007 05:16 AM
The weight you're putting up is the DRY weight(434lbs), not the actual WET weight which is 505lbs to the 02 R1's 440lbs and 04 R1's 450lbs. And the 135 hp you're showing is the CRANK HP, not REAR WHEEL HP which is 120 stock to the 02 R1's 135 and 04 R1's 155. Hate to tell you this but the advertised bullshit numbers that companies put out have mislead you. Severly.
And who told you it was significantly redesigned in 2001 with a bunch of engine mods? It wasn't. It was a carry over model from it's introduction to the end of it's production which is why you don't see anything on it after 1999. To this day the stock TLR at it's fastest only ran high 10's in the 1/4 to the 02 R1's low 10's and 04 R1's high 9's. Here's why:
TL1000R
505 LBS
120 HP
75 ft/lbs torque
2002 R1
440 LBS
135 HP
75 ft/lbs torque
2004 R1
450 LBS
155 HP
75 ft/lbs torque
2002 CBR954RR
430 LBS
135 HP
70 ft/lbs torque
Equal torque for the TLR but there's nothing to overcome the 15-35 hp deficit pushing 75 pounds more weight. It's not really a power issue as it had a stout V-Twin motor back in 1999, but it's an issue of weight which is what held it back since the beginning.
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted October 20, 2007 10:32 AM
Edited By: Sticks_n_Stones on 20 Oct 2007 11:59
Damn I never dug into the specs/ history of the TL1000R until now, went off what another Tiller owner told me. Guess he was misled and I continued it. BUT the performance of my bike is what I stated. other TLR owners reached the 125+ hp mark with extensive work only. 107-115 is the range (rwhp) for a mild TL1000R. Apparently mine isn't "normal". would explain alot. I bought it off a semi-pro racer from Arizona who just moved to Portland. He said he had been trying to sell it for awhile but with no luck so he reposted the ad. He would only tell me it had a different exhaust. After I bought it I found out it had: PCII, TRE, K&N w/ airbox mod, 520 chain, and new blue gaskets on the engine. Also, the engine "lopes" very much more than a coworkers TLR which is smooth by comparison. My bike absolutely destroyed his stock 99 TL1000R from every mph, too. Always figured that was the gearing. But if 2 diff dyno's say I'm at least at 125hp than maybe he did some headwork on it or more. Wonder why he never spilled the beans on it when I bought it?
Guess it's not as "stock" as I thought. Like thats a bad thing...
If ANY of you Bikeland'ers want to take it for a spin with me on my 14 following feel free to stop by on your way through. I'm pretty tired of hearing how "it cant be that fast" when it IS that fast so come on over. Any excuse to hit a couple good rodes with fellow riders is a good excuse to me! IM or PM me anytime!
(Oh yeah, I sold the PCII last week. Plan on selling my TLR this winter/next spring.)
Tracy Perman
Granite Falls, Washington
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zx12adam
Member
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posted October 20, 2007 01:47 PM
quote:
Wonder why he never spilled the beans on it when I bought it?
Guess it's not as "stock" as I thought. Like thats a bad thing...
Internal engine mods decrease a motorcycle's value, usually leads to reliablility issues of some sort depending on what was done and who done them.
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
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posted October 20, 2007 01:51 PM
somebody else spending the money and time to modify a bike properly is a plus to me. As long as its done right of course. Only complaint I ever had was the power commander program didnt eliminate the hard hit on tip in at higher rpms. And was too lazy to find someone to reprogram the PCII. Thankfully the PCIII's are USB now, so much simpler. which is why I sold my PCII. Was going to get a PCII usb.
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