zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted October 07, 2007 02:37 PM
quote:
Don't forget the Brit mags. They are usually the most indepth especially on telemetry, for example showing actual acceleration in overlaying graphs from 0 to top speed.
Take a deep breathe. It isn't gonna be that close! lol....
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08blade
Novice Class
Honda Humper
Posts: 94
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posted October 07, 2007 04:02 PM
quote:
Honda's are weak....
New 2008 ZX-10R will be walking all over it...on the track
YTBD
quote:
and definitely at the strip.. just like now... 
Anyone that buys a liter class sportbike for the drag strip is 
quote:
That Zebra photo above has to be the ugliest yet...yuck...
I guess you haven't seen the '08 ZX10 pics? 
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08blade
Novice Class
Honda Humper
Posts: 94
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posted October 07, 2007 04:04 PM
quote:
Simple..she is getting paid too sit on it! and her smile er lack of tells me she has the same perception 'most" have of this ugly duck Honda created.
If anyone could recognize ugly it would be a Suzuki owner. lol
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted October 07, 2007 06:57 PM
quote:
quote:
Simple..she is getting paid too sit on it! and her smile er lack of tells me she has the same perception 'most" have of this ugly duck Honda created.
If anyone could recognize ugly it would be a Suzuki owner. lol
+1
word!
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'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted October 08, 2007 08:30 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Simple..she is getting paid too sit on it! and her smile er lack of tells me she has the same perception 'most" have of this ugly duck Honda created.
If anyone could recognize ugly it would be a Suzuki owner. lol
+1
word!
Suzook does win the "Butt Ugly" Award. But, I can live with ugly. Just as long as the performance level is above the rest of em! Will Honda bring that along? We shall see. I think that the ZX10r will be the literbike crown holder this year.It already had a 10 to 12 hp advantage over the honda, and I would think that the weights will be close(nod towards the 10) I'd have to think that Yammy & Suzook blew their wads last year. The honda just has too much ground to make up. If they can pull it off, Kudos to them!
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zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
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posted October 08, 2007 08:11 PM
quote:
The honda just has too much ground to make up.
That's what everyone said about the ZX9R in 2003.
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted October 08, 2007 08:51 PM
quote:
quote:
The honda just has too much ground to make up.
That's what everyone said about the ZX9R in 2003.
Ya I remember that. ZX9's sitting on showrooms forever with sluggish sales and people acted as if it was the end of Kawi motorbikes. Then look at what they rolled out and how fast they rebounded :P
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'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted October 09, 2007 06:21 AM
I hope you're not comparing the zx9 to zx10 diff. To the upgrade from last years CBR1k to this years cuz, as far as I can see, the CBR went on a decent diet and got some new bodywork. From what I can see (motorwise) there wasn't anything drastic goin on for HP increase. Now, ZX9 compared to the ZX10? That's not even worth talkin' about. History has already spoken.
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted October 09, 2007 06:23 AM
I do hope it's everything you guys seem to think it is. I like the black one . If it was the Cat's Meow, I would park one in my garage. Even if it is a Honda! lol...
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zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
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posted October 09, 2007 07:14 AM
I'm not cracked up about peak hp anymore, I have that in the 12 right now. I'd rather have a light good hangling bike for a change.
Starting with a stock bike it costs alot more to lighten a bike than to gain hp. With adding lightweight carbon fiber wheels and carbon fiber bodywork if you crash it even lightly it costs ALOT more to repair than some minor engine work.
Take the current 07 GSXR1000 and CBR1000RR. To get a GSXR1K from 471 pounds to under 430 will cost alot of money. But to get over 165+ rear wheel hp out of a CBR1K you're looking at an exhaust, PCIII, and a good tune. CBR riders have been gaining 15 hp and cutting 15 pounds off the 04-07 1K with this set-up as the stock exhaust is restrictive and heavy.
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted October 09, 2007 10:08 AM
quote:
I'm not cracked up about peak hp anymore, I have that in the 12 right now. I'd rather have a light good hangling bike for a change.
Starting with a stock bike it costs alot more to lighten a bike than to gain hp. With adding lightweight carbon fiber wheels and carbon fiber bodywork if you crash it even lightly it costs ALOT more to repair than some minor engine work.
Take the current 07 GSXR1000 and CBR1000RR. To get a GSXR1K from 471 pounds to under 430 will cost alot of money. But to get over 165+ rear wheel hp out of a CBR1K you're looking at an exhaust, PCIII, and a good tune. CBR riders have been gaining 15 hp and cutting 15 pounds off the 04-07 1K with this set-up as the stock exhaust is restrictive and heavy.
No doubt! But, I've yet to see a CBR1k come within 10hp of a ZX10 or a GSXR1k with similar mods. That is significant. When I'm doin a track day, I reel in CBRs' like they missed a shift on the straight aways & out of corners. Yes, I want light. (check out my R1 in some of my prev. posts, that is light!) The ZX10 looks like it'll be right there weightwise just have it's 10hp advantage out of the box. Anyway, we can go back & forth with this or, we can see what they actually got when they're tested! Good Luck!
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zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
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posted October 09, 2007 11:42 PM
quote:
I've yet to see a CBR1k come within 10hp of a ZX10 or a GSXR1k with similar mods.
I have yet to see the other literbikes make the same gains with similar mods, they seem to leave the factory with better breathing dual exhausts. I know researching my R1 years ago other owners weren't gaining 15hp with just pipes/PC.
What's the extent of your research? I've found some of the more popular exhausts like the Yosh and Jardine for example don't gain much power at all with the current CBR1K. Some like the Arrow only make significant gains with internal work done(180+hp). There's a few systems with as much as 15hp gains that cut 15 pounds over stock with no internal mods. It's really no different than the ZX12/ZX14, certain systems work better than others, it's just a matter of research to see what works.
Stock is only 5-6% less on just the top part of the curve. And this just makes it slow? Too much ground to make up? Now that's just splitting hairs on 150+hp sportbikes.
This is off topic but if money is no option you can always go to Ten Kate and have them build a reliable 200+hp normally aspirated motor  . Or an entire WSB 
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zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
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posted October 09, 2007 11:59 PM
And yes, I had an '05 R1 and used to be a spec sheet inspector until me and ErictheJew did some side-by-side comparisons with his ZX10. Look what we found...
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=19&TID=19650
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stevewfl
Moderator
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posted October 10, 2007 06:56 AM
good info, and I bumped it~
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zx1kr
Pro
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posted October 10, 2007 08:38 AM
If you check my prev. posts you'll see I'm far from a spec sheet rider. All of my HP info comes from various dyno tunes, HP shoot-outs and actual side by side comparos. The best I've seen a piped & PC'ed CBR put to the wheel on MY dyno was 153hp. The best I've seen out of a ZX10 was 167HP same mods. (Yes, I've done more kawi's than hondas' by a 4 to 1 margin.)
I'm not looking to go back & forth with you on this subject. I'm willing to wait for the hard data to come out. I'm quite confident that all ?'s will be resolved then.
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zx12adam
Member
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posted October 10, 2007 09:23 AM
 Edited By: zx12adam on 10 Oct 2007 10:46
quote:
The best I've seen a piped & PC'ed CBR put to the wheel on MY dyno was 153hp. The best I've seen out of a ZX10 was 167HP same mods. (Yes, I've done more kawi's than hondas' by a 4 to 1 margin.)
That's typical results when running the wrong exhausts, like I said, odds are they were as the two most popular are Yosh and Jardine, the two with the least gains. The Yosh being the coolest sounding but I've seen 5 hp gains; the carbon "Pig Nose" Jardine the coolest looking.
I even recall the Laser twin pipes as a popular(cool looking) set-up. Hp gained was 2 or 3 if they were lucky.
And we're not really going back and forth, just discussing. I've gained alot of input from hardcore CBR owners and learned quite a bit from an often underated bike just like here with the ZX12R. Everyone on the street thought the Busa was miles ahead of the ZX12 but we've always known better because we see the truth from both sides.
Some even call the CBR slow which is laughable. I've seen them base at 150 and end up with 165 with Sato pipe, PC, and BMC. Micron Serpent is another system for good 15+ hp gains. And what's interesting about the better pipes is the curve doesn't drop after their peak, they stay up as a flat plateu to the limiter with a broad spread of power on top.
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zx1kr
Pro
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posted October 10, 2007 10:49 AM
Well, it comes down to this. I'm interested in which literbike is going to give me the best "base" to go fast on. I've NEVER left a bike bone stock and don't foresee that starting anytime soon. When I bought my 04 ZX10 it was unbeatable on the street. That is why I bought it. Was it the best track bike? Not even close, I have an R1 that does track duty and will cut the 10's eyes out without breakin' a sweat. So, I'm sticking to my opinion on this until proven different. Do I see the CBR as being the world beater in the 1K class? No. If it is though, I'll be the 1st to sing it's praises. Will you be able to do the same for the ZX10?
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zx12adam
Member
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posted October 10, 2007 05:20 PM
Edited By: zx12adam on 10 Oct 2007 18:27
quote:
Do I see the CBR as being the world beater in the 1K class? No. If it is though, I'll be the 1st to sing it's praises. Will you be able to do the same for the ZX10?
Of course as I've done in the past:
1993 CBR900RR
1998 R1
2001 GSXR1000
2004 ZX10R
2006 No dominant bike stood above the rest.
But if the only thing separating the 2008 Literbikes is 5% peak hp then there really isn't a "Dominant World Beater". Of all the performance variables such as the entire power curve, entire torque curve, aerodynamics, wet weight, balance, suspension, suspension set-up, brakes, corner entry, corner speed, corner exit, acceleration, gearing, throttle response, tires, and the most important of them all the rider's ability to get the most out of the machine I simply refuse to believe it comes down to 8 peak hp out of 150+.
Hell, for years race teams have admitted to be more than willing to give up a few peak hp for a broad, smooth torque curve in it's place. That says alot.
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stevewfl
Moderator
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posted October 10, 2007 05:28 PM
squids and the dealers that sell to 'em are into PEAK HP lmao
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CBR600RR track bike
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted October 10, 2007 05:56 PM
Listen, you & I both know a good bike needs more than just peak HP. My point is that the Honda lacked as a whole package in the last few years with it's best never really being quite good enough. I've ran against CBR1ks' pretty regularly on the street and they weren't in the same league power or handling wise as a ZX10 with similar equipment. If they get it right this time, I'll be impressed. But, only time will tell. I won't buy any first ride impressions either. I'll wait for head-up comparisons. I do remember the 04 CBR1K being touted as "on par" with the dominating GSXR1K of 03 & we all know how that turned out.
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zx1kr
Pro
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posted October 10, 2007 06:00 PM
I will say this, I think if there's anything that'll push this Honda to the top it'll be the "Iconic new Honda Wing tank badge." LOL!
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zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
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posted October 11, 2007 01:19 AM
From the sounds of it your basing your opinions on mag tests and other riders ability. How many miles do you have on all the literbikes?
I've rode them all and can tell you I never got off any of them saying "Ah, yeah, that was obviously a poor handling and slugish turd". Each of them had there hi's and low's as none of them were perfect.
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zx12adam
Member
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posted October 11, 2007 01:32 AM
quote:
My point is that the Honda lacked as a whole package in the last few years with it's best never really being quite good enough. I've ran against CBR1ks' pretty regularly on the street and they weren't in the same league power or handling wise as a ZX10 with similar equipment.
You mean like the 04-05 ZX10 with cracked frames, rearsets that touched down too easily, weak wooden brakes, and scitish handling? Minus the frame problems I heard the 636 radial master cyclinder, rearsets, and a dampner were needed to fix those problems.
Or the 06-07 with added weight, heavy handling, and brake fade? How many riders have you seen have to hook up some ZX14 brakes?
Imagine that, none of them are perfect. I'm not saying the ZX10 isn't a completely awesome package, the 04 was a real shock to the system. But after riding it and the R1, CBR, and GSXR back to back the way we did there were pros and cons as with any bike.
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zx1kr
Pro
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posted October 11, 2007 06:03 AM
quote:
From the sounds of it your basing your opinions on mag tests and other riders ability. How many miles do you have on all the literbikes?
I've rode them all and can tell you I never got off any of them saying "Ah, yeah, that was obviously a poor handling and slugish turd". Each of them had there hi's and low's as none of them were perfect.
I too have ridden every one of them, and owned several of them too. The cbrs' felt signicantly heavier & although they didn't feel slower when being ridden, they sure did look slower when I blew by them on any of the other 3.
Do you work for Honda?
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zx1kr
Pro
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posted October 11, 2007 06:05 AM
I was the 1st one on this forum to adapt 14 calipers to the 10. Check my posts.
Are you really going there with the cracked frames thing? I'm 240lb and rode the ass off my 10 never had a problem. I didn't use the bike for stunting , I used it for racing. And I've already acknowledged all that you're stating. Bottom line is the 04-05 10 was a better bike (read as quicker, faster, better handling) than the CBR was. History has already spoken on this. Why are you trying to sell this to me?
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