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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: intercooled turbo system NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
KZScott


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posted March 23, 2014 03:00 PM        
intercooled turbo system

Checking interest, would you guys be more interested in a turbo system that was intercooled for the 14 and 14R? I'm talking about an upgrade to a regular stage 1 or 2 kit to allow crazy hp on pump fuel. for example, the stage 1 ultra for a busa allows 400 hp on pump with a built motor. Would any of you be interested in a similar option?

____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos

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1badzx12r


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posted March 23, 2014 04:04 PM        
depends on the intercooler I have a front mount air to air and all it does is keep me from lowering the bike without a steering rake increase or 16 inch front tire . anything to gain that clearance from front tire is costly or semi jerry rigging.
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI

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boostphreak


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posted March 23, 2014 05:09 PM        
air to air or water to air?
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KZScott


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posted March 23, 2014 08:04 PM        
water to air, it wont be in the way of lowering the bike
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos

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boostphreak


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posted March 24, 2014 11:49 AM        
I would be interested in something like that. The only problem is where to put it. It would almost have to be in the frame.
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KZScott


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posted March 24, 2014 02:28 PM        
we were looking it over and think a 700 hp core can be used without cutting the frame up. the old ultra kit sized core before the upgrade to a 1000 hp core
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos

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Romans


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posted March 24, 2014 05:39 PM        
Very interested.
____________
2012 ZX-14 R Turbo, 2010 ZX-14 Turbo, 2007 ZX-14, 2009 ZX-6R, YZ 450F

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boostphreak


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posted March 25, 2014 07:10 AM        
do you need a test mule to give you some real world feedback? lol

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KZScott


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posted March 25, 2014 05:19 PM        
maybe??? call the shop and talk to the boss lol
1-519-335-6504
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos

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Romans


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posted March 25, 2014 05:49 PM        
Made the call. Eager to see what becomes available.
____________
2012 ZX-14 R Turbo, 2010 ZX-14 Turbo, 2007 ZX-14, 2009 ZX-6R, YZ 450F

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KZScott


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posted March 26, 2014 09:08 AM        
we got a little video for ya mr prankster lol
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos

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Romans


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posted March 26, 2014 01:52 PM        
LMAO, The East Coaster in me Can't help it.


____________
2012 ZX-14 R Turbo, 2010 ZX-14 Turbo, 2007 ZX-14, 2009 ZX-6R, YZ 450F

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miketmmns


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posted March 31, 2014 09:53 AM        
Will I be able to buy just the inter cooler or do I have to buy the whole kit?
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Gunner


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posted April 01, 2014 10:35 AM        Edited By: Gunner on 1 Apr 2014 18:36
Water to air on a street bike would get complex and a bit heavy by the time you add the heat exchanger to cool the water somewhere in the air stream, all the hoses and the pump to move the water around from the intercooler to the above mentioned exchanger (small rad ) then there's the intercooler itself and fitting it somewhere without hacking up the frame in the process to fit one large enough to be worth while. You may or may not want to think about adding a small fan to pull air over the exchanger for times when you are sitting in traffic and the water will be doing little if any cooling. A nice alcohol mist would probably net you just as good if not better cooling and be a lot less complex. Air to water is great for closed course racing where you have a tank full of ice water being passed through the intercooler but that's not practical on a street anything. It would be interesting to see the numbers for the charge temp before and after the cooler on a system like this just to know what it can do. I'm not saying it won't work because it can work if the exchanger mounted in the air stream can be large enough to cool the water down after it absorbs the excess heat from the charge and be kept small enough to not create the same clearance issues with the front wheel etc... Should be interesting to watch what happens
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it

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Oz Booster


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posted April 01, 2014 01:22 PM        
I have a water/air cooler on my streetbike busa , and have had previously air/air and water/methanol injection

I would not go back to the other systems, its pretty much set and forget , inlet temps are much more stable
inlet restriction is just about 0,
Additional weight realy is minimal considering the advantages you get , the whole system only holds a few quarts of coolant ,and the water pump uses very little power

heat exchanger on my busa is about 1/2 radiator size ,... you do not need huge cooling capacity like a air/air
as the water takes a lot of energy to change temp,
When your on boost it acts as a heat soak, and off boost looses temp , both through the heat exchanger and back into the inlet air , effectively doubling the capacity of your heat exchanger
And if you log how long your actually on boost making high temps its a very small % of riding time

Scott this is a great idea and about time someone offered this option for the Kawasaki's

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KZScott


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posted April 01, 2014 03:12 PM        
the ultra plenum has become quite a popular upgrade in the busa world. i think the kawasaki drivers should have this type of option too. it was just used on the bigger turbo ultra kits at first but so many guys were upgrading stage 1s with it (the nickname was the mini ultra) , it became its own kit "stage 1 ultra"
heres an example

Gen 2 Hayabusa Stage 1 Ultra™ kit, includes our new Ultra™ 1000 plenum. With tuning through ECU Editor, and a built engine, this system will allow you to make 400hp on pump fuel.


theres tons of room to fit this heat exchanger on the 14 if you move the horn

Romans needs to get on the flashing stuff to be able to use a 3 bar map sensor hint hint

____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos

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Romans


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posted April 01, 2014 03:43 PM        
Yep, hints are good. Have you guys started the prototype ? Shame I didn't have this fitted when My bike was there ugh !
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2012 ZX-14 R Turbo, 2010 ZX-14 Turbo, 2007 ZX-14, 2009 ZX-6R, YZ 450F

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1badzx12r


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posted April 01, 2014 08:38 PM        Edited By: 1badzx12r on 2 Apr 2014 04:39
I just want to know where they find the power to run all the extra electrics . I have an ricks upgrade set-up and still lose power just from my air compressor kicking in for my air shifter. . now imagine another electric water pump running on top of everything . my bike would just die after a shift . may look cool and have a lot of fan base but I know better without doing something to the busa charging system its just eye candy.. and fukk CO2 and bottle filling
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI

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Oz Booster


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posted April 01, 2014 11:48 PM        
Available power is limited, and you do need to think about how you use it, but pumping water at pretty much 0 pressure uses very little power, your fans use a lot more
pumps i have used often only draw 1.6 amps for 40l/min flow

Hi pressure like your compressor and fuel pumps cost a lot of power (current)
Things that can save power is using a capable fuel pump without going bigger than you need
fuel pumps like an 044 use about 9 amps at high boost and pump 3.8-4l/min
if your not using e85 or running 500hp your probably better off with something like a 910 drawing about 6.5 amps and still flowing 400 hp worth of gas

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rspauldi


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posted April 02, 2014 02:00 PM        
I am certainly interested, could the heat exchanger possibly fit in the nose fairing where ram air originates ? Just a thought
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KZScott


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posted April 02, 2014 02:34 PM        
those water pumps ship with a 2 amp fuse, power consumption is not really an issue. i think its in the 1.3-1.6 amp range. theres no other current draw for an intercooled system.
no we dont have a 14 here to build a system on at the moment
it will go in the ram air area. no need to cut up the frame.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos

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1badzx12r


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posted April 03, 2014 04:07 AM        Edited By: 1badzx12r on 3 Apr 2014 12:14
quote:
those water pumps ship with a 2 amp fuse, power consumption is not really an issue. i think its in the 1.3-1.6 amp range. theres no other current draw for an intercooled system.



when your already max out on the charging system from everything else involved to run with a turbo kit on a "race / street bike " . 1.6 amps may just break the camel's back .

but its still a good idea and the 14 charging system is far better than a busa
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI

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Gunner


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posted April 09, 2014 08:56 AM        
quote:

And if you log how long your actually on boost making high temps its a very small % of riding time





Dude you just gave the best reason for not having a turbo bike. I've been saying this very same thing for several years now. I have owned many turbo bikes in my life and in the process spent more money and broken more parts than I care to recall. I'll be the first to admit the power of boost is intoxicating and once you have had it nothing seems to come close. In short I love it myself, but I done a study over the course of one riding season many years back and decided the same thing you stated above. The amount of time actually spent on boost enjoying that power is so small and the trade offs for a street bike are so large it don't make sense to anyone that weighs them all against each other. On boost nothing beats you but you have to contend with a gutted motor on the bottom to keep from breaking the motor up top when the boost is high. You have an octane requirement that's insane to keep the detonation down to levels that won't break the motor. Take and compare than to a properly built aspirated bike and choose some roads worth riding on meaning not ten miles without a corner and the aspirated bike wins every time. Now put that on the drag strip or that very long very straight road and the turbo wins but we're talking street bikes and roads worth spending a day riding on..

It would be interesting to install a pressure switch that's connected to an hour meter set to show how much time something like a 14R with a turbo actually spends on boost that produce power levels above what an aspirated motor produces on the average street ridden turbo application. I'll bet several turbo owners would be surprised how often they are actually riding around producing less power than their buddy on his stock motor same bike with a header pipe and simple bolt on mods.
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Oz Booster


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posted April 09, 2014 01:50 PM        
Gunner our opinions are going to differ a bit
i think turbo streetbike is a hell of a lot of fun , but it does depend on what your trying to do and your setup
i can only go by my experiances, riding boosted bikes since 02 , gsxr 750, triumph 595, busa , gix 1000 zx14

my current main bike is a turbo gen 2 busa covered some of this above but put it all together here , gt30r water /air cooler using editor for engine management and boost control with a 0-6 swingarm set at +3
motor is nothing special, ceramic coated std pistons/rods, good clutch and valve springs, decompressed .080
i run 4 psi in first gear and step it up 2psi/gear , gets me quite similar thrust in each gear and makes riding hard very predictable , we do a lot of rides into the hills , usually 500km (300m)round trips on a sunday
we dont cruise much


i am yet to mechanically break down on the road , worst case was receintly when i had vapor lock on a 110 deg day after filling up with crappy fuel then stopping at the top of the mountain after racing all the way up , first real vapor lock and i suppose expected in the conditions ...high altitude (by our standards ) and low boiling point ethanol added fuel and a stop without a cooldown cruise, usually my normal riding buddys and i dont stop as often as these guys did

Its advances like the water/air cooler and electronics for better fuel, timing and boost management that let these bikes be used more effectively
the old FMU/powercommander combo with single stage boost was very limiting , and a slight problem in just about any part caused a lean out and $$$$$

About the only compromise the turbo makes is the bike length out of a corner , just means a relearn of riding style ,







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Romans


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posted April 09, 2014 03:46 PM        
I tried to keep the 14R with only bolt on mods. But,,, when it was time to go out 4 a ride I passed right by her and went for the boosted bike every time. Turbo bike is To dame much fun to ever ignore. Long story short both bikes are boosted now. One just needs to add More boost and the world will be Sweeeet. Can't help myself, Love it. I'm Hooked
____________
2012 ZX-14 R Turbo, 2010 ZX-14 Turbo, 2007 ZX-14, 2009 ZX-6R, YZ 450F

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