Rook
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Posts: 1125
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posted February 18, 2013 04:53 PM
CZ sprocket stud problem
I have Carrazzeria Tri Rs for my 08 ZX-14. The sprocket nuts that cam on the sprocket studs turn but they are a little stiff. The Pro-Bolt sprocket nuts I have will just start on the threads before they they bind and cannot be turned by hand. I ordered a set of Driven sprocket nuts and they bind just like the Pro-Bolt nuts.
There is nothing wrong with the nuts. The Driven, Pro-Bolt and CZ nuts all spin freely on a M10 x 1.25 thread. So there is something odd about the studs pitch.
What should I do?? Take a wrench to it? Sure would like to put the Pro-Bolt nuts on there but not if it means I am going to destroy the studs.
  
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Lsantana954
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posted February 18, 2013 06:17 PM
you know anyone with a tap n die set?
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'12 Gully Blue ZX14
-PCV/Guhl ECU/Blue CT Meg/<0 Alyson Oil/+8 Evil Arm/+1 Rear Sprocket
'07 Acura TL-S
'87 Buick Grand National
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Rook
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posted February 18, 2013 06:57 PM
I had the same thought. I own a T-handle tap wrench. I went to Ace tonight to pick up a tap thinking running it through the nuts would loosen them up but they spin on a M10 x 1.25mm thread like butter. I could pick up a M10 x 1.25 die and run it over the studs. I have this hunch that the studs are really some odd pitch so running a 1.12mm die on them might damage them. I was thinking it would not be so bad to replace the nut but replacing a stud would be a lot of work.
...or should I just try it??
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Lsantana954
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posted February 18, 2013 07:36 PM
well most tap n die kits come with a guage you can use before you start running the die through em
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'12 Gully Blue ZX14
-PCV/Guhl ECU/Blue CT Meg/<0 Alyson Oil/+8 Evil Arm/+1 Rear Sprocket
'07 Acura TL-S
'87 Buick Grand National
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Rook
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posted February 18, 2013 07:48 PM
ah, I see. You measure how many threads/mm before picking a die. I'll have to run out to Ace again and see if I can pick one up.
I may just try wrenching one nut back and forth an eighth turn at a time with some oil. apparently that is how they got the CZ nuts to go on half way smooth.
I have this little feeling that the threads are intentionally tweaked as a nut anti loosening fail safe. That is why I am reluctant to run a chaser over them.
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BobC
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posted February 18, 2013 11:58 PM
 Edited By: BobC on 19 Feb 2013 08:38
If the studs are clean and undamaged and you can only get your nuts on half a turn is it possible that the studs aren't M10 x 1.25 ?
If they aren't 1.25 pitch you won't be able to force a nut on or run a 1.25 die down the studs without ruining them. Hopefully the nuts are softer material and will give first but it's risky with such a stressed component as a sprocket stud.
If there are exactly 8 threads per cm they are 1.25. Any more or less tells you what you need to know.
Probolt sell M10 in various pitches and the CZ sprocket nut kit (part number SPRNK001) is $36. That's $6 per nut and sounds expensive but if you ruin a stud they are $12.50 each.
http://www.forged-wheel.com/fw/products.php?type=cz&product=CZSP
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted February 19, 2013 07:33 AM
OH SH-T!!!
Thanks BobC. I see the problem now, dammit!!!! I checked my Pro-Bolt invoice and the nuts I ordered were # SPN10G.
Probably what I did was order sprocket nuts for a Kawasaki ZX-14 instead of for a Carrazzeria wheel. I will contact ProBolt and see if they think I should send these back for exchange (they may consider them nonsalable now). DAMN I spent over $60 on sprocket nuts so far with the Pro-Bolt and the Drivens, both ordered for a ZX-14. I feel a little stupid. This same thing happened with ordering Bridgeport valve stems. Fortunately those fit the same on OEM wheels and CZ.
oh well, live and learn. shite-ski!!!!
I will post an update when I get my third set of nuts. Pro-Bolt is the best. Lightest AND they have the steel insert for high torque. ...but they are a bit slow in delivery. worth it though. I will post back in a couple weeks. shees, it might be riding season by then...
I'm really glad I asked here. Thanks to both of you guys, Lsantana and BobC.
Talk later,
Daron
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Rook
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Posts: 1125
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posted February 19, 2013 08:04 AM
.....although I just called Pro-Bolt and the guy told me they do not make the SPRNK001any more. Pro-Bolt does make 3 dif pitch sprocket nut in titanium. What I ordered is 1.25mm
I'm going to measure the CZ stud threads tonight and see if they are 1.25 pitch.
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Lsantana954
Expert Class
Posts: 356
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posted February 19, 2013 08:38 AM
what color did you get the nuts? If they dont work for you i might be interested in purchasing the pro-bolt nuts
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'12 Gully Blue ZX14
-PCV/Guhl ECU/Blue CT Meg/<0 Alyson Oil/+8 Evil Arm/+1 Rear Sprocket
'07 Acura TL-S
'87 Buick Grand National
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Lsantana954
Expert Class
Posts: 356
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posted February 19, 2013 08:45 AM
did you try contacting CZ about the size stud they use?
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'12 Gully Blue ZX14
-PCV/Guhl ECU/Blue CT Meg/<0 Alyson Oil/+8 Evil Arm/+1 Rear Sprocket
'07 Acura TL-S
'87 Buick Grand National
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted February 19, 2013 01:29 PM
Edited By: Rook on 19 Feb 2013 21:43
what color did you get the nuts? If they dont work for you i might be interested in purchasing the pro-bolt nuts
They are gold but I think I will keep them for my OEM wheel which I plan to use for highway trips.
The Pro-Bolt sprocket nuts that I purchased along with a bunch of other PB stuff were $26
They have the steel helcoil insert. M10x1.25mm is what I have for sure. Threads right on a 10x1.25mm bolt
The Drivens were $31 on EBay with shipping. They are all aluminum and marked "max tq 29ft lbs." Prolly okay if you check them often and use locktight. They are a higher nut with deeper threads and a thicker flange than Pro-bolt. The Driven nut is about 2-3mm higher than the stud stands above the sprocket. In other words, the tip of the stud would not be flush to the top surface of the nut. It's made for a stud that is a bit longer than I have on my CZ rim. Prolly the same on the OEM sprocket studs but I have not measured. 10x1.25mm pitch,they should work fine on the OEM studs but they will look a bit odd because the stud tip will not meet the top of the nut. Nice finish on them however and cool white etching.
If you pinch those ounces like I have been doing, the OEM sprocket nuts are 1.85 oz or .8 oz heavier than the Pro-Bolts.
If I end up not needing the gold Driven nuts, you can have those shipped for $25 but as mentioned I will most likely put the pro-Bolts on my OEM rim.
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Lsantana954
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posted February 19, 2013 11:47 PM
i have the gold driven nuts on mine but i dont really like to color of their gold
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'12 Gully Blue ZX14
-PCV/Guhl ECU/Blue CT Meg/<0 Alyson Oil/+8 Evil Arm/+1 Rear Sprocket
'07 Acura TL-S
'87 Buick Grand National
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BobC
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Posts: 1736
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posted February 20, 2013 12:23 AM
Edited By: BobC on 20 Feb 2013 08:29
quote:
.....although I just called Pro-Bolt and the guy told me they do not make the SPRNK001any more. Pro-Bolt does make 3 dif pitch sprocket nut in titanium. What I ordered is 1.25mm
I'm going to measure the CZ stud threads tonight and see if they are 1.25 pitch.
Good to hear the problem is resolved.
Just for clarification SPRNK001 is a CZ part number. The Pro-Bolt number is something like TI5SPN10 although that's a pack of five and you need six.
Third item from bottom on this page: http://www.forged-wheel.com/fw/products.php?type=cz&product=CZSP
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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epd345
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Posts: 1494
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posted February 20, 2013 08:11 AM
Rook I did the same thing, I ordered Lockhart Phillips Gold sprocket bolts for my Carrozzeria's and when I did I said I needed bolts for a zx14. Needless to say they did not fit the CZ wheels and I ended up using the stock bolts that came on the CZ wheels.
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2012 ZX14, Ceramic Coated Brock's CT Meg, PCV, throttlemeister
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Rook
Pro
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posted February 20, 2013 09:43 AM
Edited By: Rook on 20 Feb 2013 17:47
Yep, and that is what that that CZ part # that BobC has linked to above must be--brand new steel CZ sprocket nuts. The ones I have are perfectly usable but I was just hoping to get anodized gold.
I will keep that Pro-Bolt # in mind to see if tat helps to order nuts from Pro-Bolt. The guy told me that They only make aluminum sprocket nuts in one pitch, 1.25 and that is what I have. Titanium comes in 3 pitches, one of which is 1.25
i have the gold driven nuts on mine but i dont really like to color of their gold
Actually, that is what I prefer in color but I'm not crazy about the 29 ft lbs torque limit and they are not a lot lighter than CZ steel nuts. If I'm paying $30/set of nuts I sure would like them to be a lightweight and strong.
did you try contacting CZ about the size stud they use?
CZ claims the pitch is 1.25 Theuy say the studs are very hard material but that does not explain why a 1.25 nut will not go on. Even if they were made of diamond, they should still take a brand new 1.25 nut. ...unless the studs are NOT 1.25 pitch????
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I looked at pitch gages online..you can get one for about $8 + delivery. I just used my steel rule and looks to me like we got 9 points or 8 valleys. Which do I go by?
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Rook
Pro
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posted February 20, 2013 02:18 PM
After thinking about this, seems to me that I should consider the valleys in the thread count if I am measuring from peaks. ..because the peak is really the top of the valley. If counting peaks, measure from the bottom of the valleys which are the bottom of the peaks.
SO-- we have 8 valleys. Eight threads. That is M10 x 1.25 threads/mm. That is the size nut that should go on there. I went to Ace Hardware and tried a couple of their M10 x 1.25s on the studs and they go on!! So 1.25 it is!! that solves that mystery!
Still no solution to why the aftermarket nuts do not fit on there if a brand new stainless steel hex nut from Ace will.
The helpful hardware men took out his inside calipers and measured the Pro-Bolt nut carefully feeling for the precise diameter several times. Their conclusion is that the Pro-Bolt is two one thousandths inch smaller than the CZ nut. This alone is not enough to prevent the nut from threading on but the studs on the CZ carrier seem to have some kind of coating (zinc or something) and that probably increases the thread tightness by another one or two thousandths inch. You can tell there is some sort of coating on the studs because the CZ nut threads on about half way and then starts to get tighter as though the coating was worn away on the first 5 or 6 threads and then less down the shank of the stud.
SO- my advice: do what epd45 did. Stick to CZ studs and CZ nuts. After i wear out a tire I may pull the carrier and replace the studs with some gold anodized titanium studs made by Pro-Bolt. They cost $77 for a set of studs but the Pro-Bolt nuts must certainly fit on those. Also, it actually starts to become almost a viable weight loss mod if you go with lightweight studs and nuts both.
I can't believe how I have shelled out $300 at a crack and more on this bike. Now I am doing that buying nuts. I must be nuts.
If It was not so close to summer, I would prolly try running over the studs with a die. This is a no-no on a high stress fastener but I believe 6 shanks are gonna hold as much torque as the drive line will dish out if they withstand 70-80 ft pounds of wrench torque. Maybe I will try the die on the studs when I change the wheel next time.
Thanks ALL.
I will update the thread if I learn anything new.
I like my wheels but they should have done a higher quality job on these sprocket studs. IMHO
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted March 27, 2013 08:46 AM
Thanks for everyone's help on this. The problem was not really a problem. The sprocket nuts WILL NOT go on by hand. I tried and a few other experienced people tried. We all agreed the nuts do not fit. I tried a wrench and the nuts go right on without binding. The CZ stud threads are apparently something like class 4 aircraft threads which are made very tight as an extra safety measure.
The Pro-Bolt aluminum nuts go on just fine but you must use a wrench.
Happy riding/racing, all!
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WARBIRD
Needs a job
Posts: 2739
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posted March 27, 2013 10:27 AM
Thanks for the update Rook. Sure looks nice......... 
____________
I'd Rather Be Roadracing.
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