weighmaster
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posted January 04, 2013 09:57 AM
 Edited By: weighmaster on 4 Jan 2013 18:00
HP vs. torque hypothetical example
So how about this hypothetical example? Suppose we took 2 bikes, a 600cc sportbike that was dynoed at 100 peak RWHP and also took a 2013 ZX-14 and drag raced them. To make it more fair, the rev limiter on the ZX-14 was somehow programmed down to somewhere around 5200 RPMs so that it also maxxed out at 100 peak RWHP and a much heavier rider was put on the 600 so both rider+bike combos weighed about the same (without a few pounds). Then several tests were done on those 2 bikes such as 1/8th mile, 1/4 mile, rolling 60 to 100 MPH, rolling 75 to 150 MPH... Assume both riders have identical drag strip skills and both bikes are working properly with no special mods (let's say they are both stock except for the 14s low rev limiter).
My question is in what situation(s) is/are torque more important and in which is/are HP more important and why would the bike care if the power comes from torque (from the larger cc bike) or more RPMs (from the smaller cc bike)? Someone may argue that if you keep the 600 buzzing up near redline it should compete fine, possibly even win because of less wind drag.
My understanding is torque is just average instantaneous power and more torque allows the rider to take more liberty as to which gear they are in. For example, on my ZX-14, I suspect I could shift from 1st to 3rd to 5th and drive it around as a virtual 3 speed and it would be fine. On a 600, that probably wouldn't be a good idea because it may lug the engine if it was shortshifted like the 14.
  
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shiphteey
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posted January 04, 2013 10:10 AM
Alright alright alriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3mB6tys2TE
GON LEARN TODAY!
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entropy
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posted January 04, 2013 10:24 AM
whoever said there are no stupid questions is full of shit
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JZX
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posted January 04, 2013 10:29 AM
quote:
whoever said there are no stupid questions is full of shit
That's Legit- I can see it , the future of ZX14.com
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Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted January 04, 2013 10:34 AM
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weighmaster
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posted January 04, 2013 10:53 AM
So I guess you people don't know the answer to my "stupid" question so what does that make you?
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smokinZX14
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posted January 04, 2013 11:06 AM
quote:
So I guess you people don't know the answer to my "stupid" question so what does that make you?
Smart
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Lucky14
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posted January 04, 2013 11:41 AM
quote:
whoever said there are no stupid questions is full of shit
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You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
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Lucky14
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posted January 04, 2013 11:43 AM
quote:
quote:
So I guess you people don't know the answer to my "stupid" question so what does that make you?
Smart
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You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
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01smokes
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posted January 04, 2013 12:12 PM
Well what is the answer?
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RICH CRAFT 1
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posted January 04, 2013 12:28 PM
I guess the guys on the BMWs are asking the same question?
Why is the 14 beating it at the drag strip, because according to power to weight the 14 should lose, but torque is a factor that they don't take into account, torque works to the advantage of motors that stay at low rpm, for instance if you have two pickups , one with the gas engine, making 400 hp and 400 foot pounds of torque, and the other pickup has a power stroke diesel making 400 hp and 800 foot pounds of torque, in a quarter-mile drag test. Both trucks empty, the gas engine will probably win. But put 20,000 pounds on the back of both of them and the diesel will run off and leave the gas engine.
but to answer your question about the 14 and a 600, the 14 will only run 95 MPH at 5200 RPMs, so am sure the 600 would win the race.
Ken
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SteddyTeddy
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posted January 04, 2013 12:48 PM
I saw a diesel truck on Speed chanel the other night do 8.20's!!!!
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shiphteey
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posted January 04, 2013 01:02 PM
quote:
I saw a diesel truck on Speed chanel the other night do 8.20's!!!!
Damn, sounds like a FUNCRUSHER!
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1badzx12r
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posted January 04, 2013 01:28 PM
quote:
I saw a diesel truck on Speed chanel the other night do 8.20's!!!!
whats next john deere tractors
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vailes3705
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posted January 04, 2013 04:02 PM
AHHH,,Ok. Now I see where shiphteey's post about the EX250 came from....LOLOL, That's awesome!!!
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shiphteey
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posted January 04, 2013 07:04 PM
quote:
AHHH,,Ok. Now I see where shiphteey's post about the EX250 came from....LOLOL, That's awesome!!!
Man izz you challenging the gen 2 ex250rr? I'm gonna have to be honest right now, its on the spray and running an aluminum sprocket.
You SURE You want it? 12.9 @ 103 on the rev limiter in 6th with OEM gearing?
Think twice grasshoppa....I think I can get this little turd down to 240 lbs with a splash of fuel!
A.
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shiphteey
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posted January 04, 2013 07:05 PM
I had Shane jockey it and he went CONSISTENT 17.2s @86.......
YOU BETTA AX SOMEBODAY!!!
But in Shane's defense he weighs a couple of LIBS more than me forrealdo.
A.
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Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted January 05, 2013 03:29 AM
Without rotation torque is useless. (torque wrench in a vice)
Adding rotation to torque allows work to be done. (winding a spool of wire)
Accelerating an object requires work to be done. (lifting a bail of hay to the loft)
There's a reason that high torque diesel engines don't win races against high hp 4 stroke cycle engines. (hp is a function of available work to be done)
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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entropy
Moderator
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posted January 05, 2013 04:51 AM
nice analogies Jim.
the tq vs hp issue can make for a very interesting, useful discussion.
But most likely your post will be lost on weightwatcher.
the reason folks here are so irked with him is he throws things out, then doesn't engage in discussion.
he just throws some other thing out.
it's as if he has no inbox, he is just posting whatever he is cogitating on at that moment.
anyway, happy new year to you and jaime!
If you are going to host Lobsterfest #5, I WILL be there.
I'm bikeless, but plan on hanging out in Ryan's or Dean's pits at Loring, watching their improvements fly!
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1badzx12r
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posted January 05, 2013 08:51 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 5 Jan 2013 16:52
quote:
.
I'm bikeless
seen a 615hp LSR turbo busa in houston craiglist ..
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 05, 2013 09:32 AM
Thanks for the heads up, 1bad,
My bud, Don Davila, just sold his alky-turbo Busa to Shane Stubbs.
If i was in the mood for a turbo Busa, i woulda bought that one. 
karl
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