mathews
Expert Class
Posts: 425
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posted October 30, 2012 06:21 PM
Actually if you check APE website he has a lengthy tech article about GenII cylinders.
  
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted October 30, 2012 06:34 PM
 Edited By: 1badzx12r on 31 Oct 2012 02:39
quote:
then you should have every fukken motor replated job in the country.. along with head gaskets and whatever in the else you want to sell .. I'M GONNA HOLD YOU TO THEM PRICES
Ok hold me to the list prices .. Those prices are right of APEs website .. you pay list and i'll make cash baby !!!! I'll even toss in free shipping .. But if you stop being a jackass i'll cut you a deal below list price .. 
only if everbody gets free shipping at those prices will i stop being an ass
when i go to APE website this is what they show for a zx14 head gasket price K8460-18 72.32 ..not counting shipping so it eats up 100.00 for a head gasket
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quikgix
Expert Class
Posts: 274
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posted October 30, 2012 08:58 PM
Edited By: quikgix on 31 Oct 2012 05:00
I had a 05 busa new and not even 2500 miles on that slouch and the trans went to shit..and Im one of those 3,900,000 in that search Lee did LMAO.
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1352cc 8.39@159mph on motor cant wait to spray this bitch
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quikgix
Expert Class
Posts: 274
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posted October 30, 2012 09:04 PM
Oh yeah and an engine like whats in that Busa(mike garcias) is almost $6,000 to build maybe more.Just talked to someone that know that bike very well.
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1352cc 8.39@159mph on motor cant wait to spray this bitch
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FAST Z14
Expert Class
Posts: 184
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posted October 30, 2012 11:11 PM
quote:
Oh yeah and an engine like whats in that Busa(mike garcias) is almost $6,000 to build maybe more.Just talked to someone that know that bike very well.
No way, that busa is stock just ask the expert he calls himself 1bad he knows everything.
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FOLY HUCK
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RICH CRAFT 1
Zone Head
Posts: 681
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posted October 31, 2012 01:28 AM
quote:
Ken,if you really believe Houston has nothing for your bike LMK.I am pretty sure I know where a GSXR that will go at that red 14 for any amount of money .No BS ,no excuses,heads up first one to the finish.A simple yes or I was wrong will suffice!
LOL you've been hanging around one bad too long, you've even learn how to misquote people, like he does!
Go back and read what I said, "dollar for dollar and weight for weight y'all ain't got nothing in Houston that will run with my red bike." and for the bike you're talking about, I'll make it easy and dropped a dollar for dollar, which I'm pretty sure is 3 to1 and just go for the weight for weight, and yes I'll take that race all day long.
Ken
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Red 06 ZX14 RR
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Y2KZX12R
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Posts: 3762
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posted October 31, 2012 02:52 AM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 31 Oct 2012 10:54
quote:
quote:
Just for the record, the engine in question is not highly modified really.
Stock rods
stock crank
stock valves
stock tranny
its really mostly stock
Heres what it has....
Pistons
Ceramic tranny and cam bearings
The head is CNC ported by Competition CNC and it has our stage 2 cams and APE springs and TI retainers.
Thats it folks. No super secret parts or expensive stuff.
We can duplicate that piston, head and cam package for anyone.
Heres the kicker.... the engine is now broken in and its close to 230 hp and the bike actually went 223 mph on one of the runs at that event.
As for comparing a 600 to a 1340 cc engine thats not comparable. I have a 3.5cc water cooled engine that makes 1.5 hp... that would be like a 600 cc engine making 205 hp.
If we had a variable viscosity atmosphere then we could get equal hp per cc for all engines no matter the size.
you guarantee those hp numbers with these mods?
wee
On the same Dyno Richard used in California, same fuel? Yep.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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Y2KZX12R
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posted October 31, 2012 03:00 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Just for the record, the engine in question is not highly modified really.
Stock rods
stock crank
stock valves
stock tranny
its really mostly stock
Heres what it has....
Pistons
Ceramic tranny and cam bearings
The head is CNC ported by Competition CNC and it has our stage 2 cams and APE springs and TI retainers.
Thats it folks. No super secret parts or expensive stuff.
We can duplicate that piston, head and cam package for anyone.
Heres the kicker.... the engine is now broken in and its close to 230 hp and the bike actually went 223 mph on one of the runs at that event.
As for comparing a 600 to a 1340 cc engine thats not comparable. I have a 3.5cc water cooled engine that makes 1.5 hp... that would be like a 600 cc engine making 205 hp.
If we had a variable viscosity atmosphere then we could get equal hp per cc for all engines no matter the size.
THANK YOU!!! but to these guys it can't be true unless you spend a ton of money to make a busa motor make zx14r hp.. and they don't know the differance between a world record and a track record either ..
Why is this then the only Gen2 STOCK bore & stroke busa that makes this kind of HP in the world,it is unheard of. Surely everyone riding a gen2 busa will do this quick hp mod.
Its not the only one out there. We have done many of these head and cam packages for drag racers also. This engine got a slightly different set of cams but nothing crazy.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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mick46
Expert Class
Posts: 112
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posted October 31, 2012 03:06 AM
quote:
Don't quite understand what you mean by the following statements:
" As for comparing a 600 to a 1340 cc engine thats not comparable. I have a 3.5cc water cooled engine that makes 1.5 hp... that would be like a 600 cc engine making 205 hp.
If we had a variable viscosity atmosphere then we could get equal hp per cc for all engines no matter the size. "
Specific power outputs of over 300hp per litre are not impossible even with a cylinder size of 300cc or so
( 3000cc V10 Formula 1 engines from a few years ago for example were making over 900 hp ),
I wasn't suggesting it would be cheap or easy just that it would be theoretically possible to make well over 270hp with a 1340cc inline 4 , a 1000cc MotoGp engine isn't that far off.
If money and power characteristics were no object a Gen 2 Busa sized engine could be making 400hp normally aspirated or am I missing something?
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2012 ZZR-1400
Alien Frogskin Green
Brocks CT Meg, PCV & QuickShifter, Brembo M4 Monoblocs, Grimeca 320mm discs, Nitron Race shock, Gilles rearsets , adjusters and TCA axle nut, Supersprox 42T, DID nickel plate X-ring, HEL brake lines, bar risers, shorty levers, tail tidy, Zero Gravity screen, RandG spools and bar ends, GPR V4 damper.... Done !
1999 Hayabusa , stretched lowered and a 60 shot !
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Y2KZX12R
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Posts: 3762
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posted October 31, 2012 03:11 AM
quote:
1Bad do you know of any other stock bore & stroke gen 2 busa that makes this type of hp. Come on be honest that is very strong, what does a average1440 busa show on the dyno jet.
Our 1441's with the same head and cam package are 236 hp. And that's HP you WILL see on your Dyno not southern New Jersey HP.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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Y2KZX12R
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Posts: 3762
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posted October 31, 2012 03:17 AM
quote:
Don't quite understand what you mean by the following statements:
" As for comparing a 600 to a 1340 cc engine thats not comparable. I have a 3.5cc water cooled engine that makes 1.5 hp... that would be like a 600 cc engine making 205 hp.
If we had a variable viscosity atmosphere then we could get equal hp per cc for all engines no matter the size. "
Specific power outputs of over 300hp per litre are not impossible even with a cylinder size of 300cc or so
( 3000cc V10 Formula 1 engines from a few years ago for example were making over 900 hp ),
I wasn't suggesting it would be cheap or easy just that it would be theoretically possible to make well over 270hp with a 1340cc inline 4 , a 1000cc MotoGp engine isn't that far off.
If money and power characteristics were no object a Gen 2 Busa sized engine could be making 400hp normally aspirated or am I missing something?
Hp is a function of RPM. As rpm increases the available time to fill the cylinder decreases. If the cylinder is smaller then the volume of air that needs to be moved is less and so you can fill the cylinder faster at a higher rpm.
This is why smaller cylinders can be filled better at higher rpms vs larger cylinders. There are other factors like friction and mass that come into play but....
Smaller engines will always make more HP per cc. O
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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Y2KZX12R
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Posts: 3762
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posted October 31, 2012 03:37 AM
Lee, your forgetting to add in the shipping. You have to ship the cylinders to and from for boring and plating. So add $100 to that. Also you are quoting off the shelf street, pump gas pistons.
If you want to make .164-.170 hp per cc you arnt going to do it with low compression 13.5 to one shelf pistons. And you have shipping on those also.
The only real difference in building a zx14 engine and a Busa engine is the cams are $350 more and the cylinders are $150 more to bore and replate on the zx-14. The head also needs bigger buckets to put any kind of decent proper cam in them. Thats about $450 depending on bucket size.
Then there's the labor. Some shops R&R the cylinder on a Busa and swap pistons without dis-assembly of the bottom end. We dont do that unless the customer specifically requests it to save $$$. At that point we have no idea if the bottom end is any good without going threw it and inspecting it so the customer takes his chances and we dont operate like that, all our engines are fully blueprinted engines. However, I know of many shops that do this as standard practice and then wonder why the bearings and or rods let go.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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Y2KZX12R
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posted October 31, 2012 03:49 AM
One last comment here.....
I'm not a "Busa" guy. I'm not a "ZX14" guy. I done really have any brand loyalty really. We build them all to suite what the customer needs.
We have 315+ hp all motor Busa engines out there and 275+ hp all motor zx14 engines out there. The only reason the busa motors make more HP is because there bigger motors.
CC for CC the busa and the zx14 engines are equal power wise. Well really, really close anyways.
Being that the kawis have typically have bigger bores and the busas typically have longer strokes they have slightly different power delivery curves with the Kawis making slightly more hp and the busas slightly more torque.
So just relax and go racing guys.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted October 31, 2012 04:27 AM
quote:
Oh yeah and an engine like whats in that Busa(mike garcias) is almost $6,000 to build maybe more.Just talked to someone that know that bike very well.
i always love this shit ..got a friend. or what it should run . i know somebody .. almost ..maybe...what if..
how about show a receipt then we see where the money went into to make it 6k ..
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted October 31, 2012 04:32 AM
quote:
One last comment here.....
I'm not a "Busa" guy. I'm not a "ZX14" guy. I done really have any brand loyalty really. We build them all to suite what the customer needs.
We have 315+ hp all motor Busa engines out there and 275+ hp all motor zx14 engines out there. The only reason the busa motors make more HP is because there bigger motors.
CC for CC the busa and the zx14 engines are equal power wise. Well really, really close anyways.
Being that the kawis have typically have bigger bores and the busas typically have longer strokes they have slightly different power delivery curves with the Kawis making slightly more hp and the busas slightly more torque.
So just relax and go racing guys.
i can go with what you just said cause it true . but answer 1 thing why are busa motors bigger than zx14 motors ..
ps i'm going TNT tonight
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted October 31, 2012 04:50 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 31 Oct 2012 12:54
quote:
your forgetting to add in the shipping. You have to ship the cylinders to and from for boring and plating. So add $100 to that.
cylinders are $150 more to bore and replate on the zx-14. .
ok i only sent 1 set in for replating 2008 since it was too costly i never did it again.. but i do ship alot and in order to ship cases you need either a special container to reuse if in that business ..or spend alot on packaging like expandable harding foam if your just average joe .. 10.00 a can and a can don't go far.. cause no matter who the shipper is they don't care whats in the box ... and to recieve your new cases all bang-up after just having them fix sux..i get no special dealer prices on shipping either so 100.00 is cheap for packaging and shipping ..
but if i ever need cylinders replated i'm not gonna ship to smokin or you .cause it cheaper than dealing direct as an average joe with the companies .. ever used U.S. CHROME
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joseph702
Zone Head
Posts: 598
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posted October 31, 2012 05:05 AM
The busa motor can go bigger couse there jugs and can be shimed or custom big bore unlike the zx14 case. We're limited with bore size.
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quikgix
Expert Class
Posts: 274
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posted October 31, 2012 05:32 AM
Edited By: quikgix on 31 Oct 2012 13:34
quote:
quote:
Oh yeah and an engine like whats in that Busa(mike garcias) is almost $6,000 to build maybe more.Just talked to someone that know that bike very well.
i always love this shit ..got a friend. or what it should run . i know somebody .. almost ..maybe...what if..
how about show a receipt then we see where the money went into to make it 6k ..
Well then ok,I talked to Ryan Sims last night,he and his father Richard built Mikes engine,He said over the last few years theres been almost 60K spent on that bike to get it where it is today!
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1352cc 8.39@159mph on motor cant wait to spray this bitch
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted October 31, 2012 06:55 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 31 Oct 2012 15:11
quote:
Well then ok,I talked to Ryan Sims last night,he and his father Richard built Mikes engine,He said over the last few years theres been almost 60K spent on that bike to get it where it is today!
i'd be sadly disappointed if i spent 60k over the years on a motor and only got 230rwhp ..what and idiot .. says alot about the shop too ..
5k buys alot of motor http://www.psychobike.com/forums/garage-sale/112270-gen-2-1441-busa-motor-sale.html theres even more motors cheaper this was just most recent added to top
http://www.psychobike.com/forums/garage-sale/111295-gen-1-pro-street-turbo-motor-sale.html
http://www.psychobike.com/forums/garage-sale/91655-06-zx14-4mil-motor-sale.html even has a CNC head
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shawnski
Pro
Posts: 1809
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posted October 31, 2012 07:17 AM
great infos here for my busa mods.. thanks
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DocsNinja
Novice Class
Backs and Bikes is what I do..
Posts: 70
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posted October 31, 2012 07:18 AM
Edited By: DocsNinja on 31 Oct 2012 15:28
quote:
Lee, your forgetting to add in the shipping. You have to ship the cylinders to and from for boring and plating. So add $100 to that. Also you are quoting off the shelf street, pump gas pistons.
If you want to make .164-.170 hp per cc you arnt going to do it with low compression 13.5 to one shelf pistons. And you have shipping on those also.
The only real difference in building a zx14 engine and a Busa engine is the cams are $350 more and the cylinders are $150 more to bore and replate on the zx-14. The head also needs bigger buckets to put any kind of decent proper cam in them. Thats about $450 depending on bucket size.
Then there's the labor. Some shops R&R the cylinder on a Busa and swap pistons without dis-assembly of the bottom end. We dont do that unless the customer specifically requests it to save $$$. At that point we have no idea if the bottom end is any good without going threw it and inspecting it so the customer takes his chances and we dont operate like that, all our engines are fully blueprinted engines. However, I know of many shops that do this as standard practice and then wonder why the bearings and or rods let go.
I didn't for get it , trust me ...We are working with shippers to get the best possible pricing .. Our low overhead lets us sell at a cheaper price . We want to make is so a zx14 owner can do a 1417 or bigger at a price that will not kill them ..Put me down Jim if you like but all i'm trying to do is help ..
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Docs Cycleworx home of Dr. Ryan Scarsella and SmokinZX14.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted November 01, 2012 03:19 AM
Doc, I'm not putting anyone down. Just pointing out the fact that a 1397 Busa engine or 1417 zx14 engine etc. from one shop isn't the same as one from another.
People wonder how its possible our engines make substantially more power than the same size engine from other shops.... our CNC head porting, cams and pistons are not the same.
Most people, due to past experiences with other shops, attribute it to happy dyno numbers until they get run over by one of our engines or get one for them selves.
Our goal is not to be the cheapest, its to be the best. You can get parts very cheap on eBay from someone selling pistons from his moms basement. Its America you can do that.
But remember, there's different pin materials, ring locations, pin heights, valve reliefs, etc. An apple isn't just an apple.
I'm all for an all motor shootout. I'll put one of our race motors up against any motor from anyone in the country. This has been talked about a few times on Psychobike. I'm all in.
Lets get it done!!!!
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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eklipse636
Needs a life
ZX-14
Posts: 6046
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posted November 01, 2012 03:39 AM
quote:
Doc, I'm not putting anyone down. Just pointing out the fact that a 1397 Busa engine or 1417 zx14 engine etc. from one shop isn't the same as one from another.
People wonder how its possible our engines make substantially more power than the same size engine from other shops.... our CNC head porting, cams and pistons are not the same.
Most people, due to past experiences with other shops, attribute it to happy dyno numbers until they get run over by one of our engines or get one for them selves.
Our goal is not to be the cheapest, its to be the best. You can get parts very cheap on eBay from someone selling pistons from his moms basement. Its America you can do that.
But remember, there's different pin materials, ring locations, pin heights, valve reliefs, etc. An apple isn't just an apple.
I'm all for an all motor shootout. I'll put one of our race motors up against any motor from anyone in the country. This has been talked about a few times on Psychobike. I'm all in.
Lets get it done!!!!
Sounds like he is calling everyone out!
The bigger question is, will someone step up and take him up on the offer?
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Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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Y2KZX12R
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Posts: 3762
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posted November 01, 2012 03:41 AM
quote:
Well then ok,I talked to Ryan Sims last night,he and his father Richard built Mikes engine,He said over the last few years theres been almost 60K spent on that bike to get it where it is today!
Quickgix,
Trust me, I'm not giving you BS info.
I told you exactly what was done to that engine. Nothing more, nothing less.
Call Richard himself and ask him to verify everything I told you that WAS and WASN'T done to that engine.
Lets put this to rest right now.... just make the call. Make sure you print out exactly what I said was and wasn't in the engine just for reference on the phone.
We can build that same engine very cost effectively for you. Or just sell you the pistons and the head and cam package.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted November 01, 2012 07:45 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 1 Nov 2012 15:47
quote:
. Or just sell you the pistons and the head and cam package.
how about a price ..why is this stuff always top secret . just a ball park not exact is fine
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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