smokinstorm
Zone Head
Old Drag Racer
Posts: 504
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posted October 25, 2012 04:18 PM
To Cecil's credit he did experience a serious lack of power with my bike when it first hit his dyno. He worked through several possibilities until finally nailing down the problem. Clutches slipping on the top end. He changed them out and the bike picked up nearly 30 horsepower from around 6000 on up. He did not document this on here but he did work through an unexpected problem until he solved it. So, my hat's off to Cecil as well for what he did for me and I'm sure I'm not the only one he has done something like this for. I just wish he could find the time to pop in here from time to time like Brock. Brock's in a class by himself on that front.
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2009 Monster Edition ZX14
It's all stock I swear. Well...almost.
2005 Turbo Busa
2001 GSXR 1000
Looking for a 1985 GS1150E
  
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted October 25, 2012 04:29 PM
Sorry lee, but all that showed anyone is what taking a street bike and turning it into a mr12 bike with zero weight oil will do for hp. But then im not serious about my racing because I don't use mr12. I'm the first to say his maps have made me fast over the years becuase of the time he puts in them and for my area I still recommend his pipes and maps to guys because we have no one that can tune around here.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted October 25, 2012 04:37 PM
quote:
Sorry lee, but all that showed anyone is what taking a street bike and turning it into a mr12 bike with zero weight oil will do for hp. But then im not serious about my racing because I don't use mr12. I'm the first to say his maps have made me fast over the years becuase of the time he puts in them and for my area I still recommend his pipes and maps to guys because we have no one that can tune around here.
Bently my statement wasn't aimed at you .. I don't use MR12 either .. 
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Brock
Sponsor
Posts: 560
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posted October 26, 2012 07:20 AM
Lee,
You know my moto: Why would anyone visit the dyno or the race track unless they were set up to perform their best?! Since both of these were designed to measure maximum potential.
You can always go backwards, for the street etc... But faster is better when when you are racing! Sure, it's more expensive, but going slower sucks 
I have always tried to go quicker and faster on every pass, thats just how I have always been wired.
I had my family eating bologna sandwiches for years, just so I could be a 'factory' drag racer for Suzuki - I wouldn't have changed a thing
Brock
Brock’s Performance
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted October 26, 2012 07:39 AM
 Edited By: 1badzx12r on 26 Oct 2012 16:28
quote:
I had my family eating bologna sandwiches for years, just so I could be a 'factory' drag racer for Suzuki - I wouldn't have changed a thing
Brock
Brock’s Performance
mang you should run for political office ..  
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Master
Expert Class
If it ain't fast it aint me
Posts: 270
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posted October 26, 2012 07:43 AM
Brock you've done us all a great service not just today but throughout your career so I know you understand that there will always be haters. The good thing is you should us is that everything you say works can and has been proven not just once but over and over. who cares if he goes back down to 176 hp you just proved that what you've said will work does indeed work. Most of like this kind of info. Belive me none of the haters on this post have ever given as good of information have you have nor will they ever. People who don't know talk people that do know instruct so please keep instructing.
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted October 26, 2012 08:23 AM
quote:
Brock you've done us all a great service not just today but throughout your career so I know you understand that there will always be haters. The good thing is you should us is that everything you say works can and has been proven not just once but over and over. who cares if he goes back down to 176 hp you just proved that what you've said will work does indeed work. Most of like this kind of info. Belive me none of the haters on this post have ever given as good of information have you have nor will they ever. People who don't know talk people that do know instruct so please keep instructing.
yup cause none of us knew mr12 and zero weight oil added hp. Who would have thought
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted October 26, 2012 09:30 AM
quote:
Lee,
You know my moto: Why would anyone visit the dyno or the race track unless they were set up to perform their best?! Since both of these were designed to measure maximum potential.
You can always go backwards, for the street etc... But faster is better when when you are racing! Sure, it's more expensive, but going slower sucks
I have always tried to go quicker and faster on every pass, thats just how I have always been wired.
I had my family eating bologna sandwiches for years, just so I could be a 'factory' drag racer for Suzuki - I wouldn't have changed a thing
Brock
Brock’s Performance
But does that mean that someone who races on pump has doesn't take their racing as serious as you ever have?
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted October 26, 2012 10:09 AM
Nah, it just means there are those willing to pay more to go faster. Not everyone is. You have to decide whats "worth it" for YOU and YOUR RACING PROGRAM and GO FROM THERE!
I can see it not always being "worth it' for the drag racer who goes out to race every week or every month.
On the flip side, there are some land speed racers who obviously don't get as many "race weekends" as a drag race guy....for whatever reasons....usually things like distance, cost, etc. If you're only going to race once or twice in a calendar year one could very easily justify the cost of running $25/gallong fuel given the cost of the entry fee ($200 or so)....hotels.....gas to and from the race....food....etc.
All depends on what you want to do and what you can afford.
A.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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Brock
Sponsor
Posts: 560
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posted October 26, 2012 11:53 AM
My forums are full of information that makes people faster, and many of the suggestions are for FREE horsepower. It just so happens that going as quick/fast as possible costs money... nine times out of ten - it's just a fact.
In drag racing the 3 L's rule: Longer, Lower, Lighter... none of these are free, and the last one can get damn expensive in a hurry.
Brock
Brock’s Performance
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lazarosp
Novice Class
Posts: 67
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posted October 26, 2012 04:21 PM
quote:
I KNEW that his Dunlop was a power killer (so is the Power One 2CT, especially compared to a Battleax)
I wanted to ask about this and this is the right time to do it.
I got my bike to the dyno (dynojet 250i model) with a bridgestone S20 rear tire at 42psi and very hot day it made 200.82 hp SAE.
After 1 month I go again to the same dyno not so hot day with cleaned and perfectly lubed chain no air filter no rear brake caliper and Michelin Power One 2ct at 30psi and it made 195.78 hp SAE and very noticable power loss after 9.500rpm. What can cause this after only 1.000 miles?
Could be the tire?
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted October 26, 2012 04:47 PM
quote:
quote:
I KNEW that his Dunlop was a power killer (so is the Power One 2CT, especially compared to a Battleax)
I wanted to ask about this and this is the right time to do it.
I got my bike to the dyno (dynojet 250i model) with a bridgestone S20 rear tire at 42psi and very hot day it made 200.82 hp SAE.
After 1 month I go again to the same dyno not so hot day with cleaned and perfectly lubed chain no air filter no rear brake caliper and Michelin Power One 2ct at 30psi and it made 195.78 hp SAE and very noticable power loss after 9.500rpm. What can cause this after only 1.000 miles?
Could be the tire?
It sure can .. You should try a 008 shinko slick on a dyno , talk about a HP killer ... You have to pick , you want Big HP numbers on the Dyno or hook and go fast at the track .. Not sure there is a tire that does both ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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lazarosp
Novice Class
Posts: 67
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posted October 27, 2012 02:05 AM
Here is the graph
It is a huge difference for a tire
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted October 27, 2012 06:11 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 27 Oct 2012 14:13
As it is said, "the devil is in the details". Often the same people who question if a bike is "stock motor", or a "ringer"...well, those are the people who don't mind their details. It's amazing that almost all of the little "tricks" are presented for everyone to see, but so many people choose to ignore them. Sure, some of the stuff (like MR12) is expensive, but so much of it is not.
Back when I was maintaining my original Gen 1 build thread, I weighed and measured nearly every component of the 14. Tested countless parts. Even then many people complained that they didn't want to read or search through my thread for the information. Just too much work (like taking 900 pictures and making numerous vids wasn't). Then I started getting haters. The guys using my "free" information, but telling me what an asshole I was. Or that anyone could do what I had done, or whatever. Well, anyone "could" do it...but not many people bothered to.
I guess my point is that I sometimes wonder why anyone contributes around here anymore. These days I do so sparingly. It is just too tiring with all of the negativity. Hopefully that will change for the better in time. 
Shane
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Brock
Sponsor
Posts: 560
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posted October 27, 2012 10:29 AM
laxarosp,
FYI: You have a combination of problems and only some of that is your tire... the big drop you have at about 11K is from removing your air cleaner. My customers have been warned that you can't do this on the 14R, via our private owners group. It not only shows up on the dyno, but you go slower at the track also.It's been covered in here also... Details 
Some people will claim that our pipes are 'pricey'... I say that knowledge costs as much as going fast (or slower) sometimes, and we all know tuition is expensive.
Brock
Brock’s Performance
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Brock
Sponsor
Posts: 560
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posted October 27, 2012 10:34 AM
On the note of details... Shane's bike was well on it's way to making 'Slugger' look weak on my dyno, until we changed his tire and lost 4HP. Apples to apples, Shane has the most powerful 14R my dyno has ever seen - not me or one of our bikes.
Brock
Brock’s Performance
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lazarosp
Novice Class
Posts: 67
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posted October 27, 2012 12:45 PM
quote:
laxarosp,
FYI: You have a combination of problems and only some of that is your tire... the big drop you have at about 11K is from removing your air cleaner. My customers have been warned that you can't do this on the 14R, via our private owners group. It not only shows up on the dyno, but you go slower at the track also.It's been covered in here also... Details
Some people will claim that our pipes are 'pricey'... I say that knowledge costs as much as going fast (or slower) sometimes, and we all know tuition is expensive.
Brock
Brock’s Performance
My bike is not a 14r it is a 06' ZX14
So you think if I put back my air filter and dyno it again it will gain the lost power?
What about the tire? Can I set the pressure to 42 psi and see better numpers?
We have a dyno shoutout in a few days and I want to be ready
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oldkawboy
Needs a job
Posts: 2125
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posted October 27, 2012 12:46 PM
Edited By: oldkawboy on 27 Oct 2012 20:48
quote:
Shane has the most powerful 14R my dyno has ever seen - not me or one of our bikes.
Brock
Brock’s Performance
It's also the fastest.
I've been to several LSR events this year where there was 14R's with bolt-ons and Shane's bike has been the fastest, if anyone believe's in details it's him.
Dan
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Brock
Sponsor
Posts: 560
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posted October 27, 2012 12:56 PM
laxarosp,
Sorry my bad... No, the Gen 1 14's usually pick up all the way through with the filter removed. Street tires are typically a linear drop, except the Shinko Hook-up. Not sure what else is wrong.
Brock
Brock’s Performance
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GREYHOUNDMOSES
Expert Class
Posts: 324
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posted October 27, 2012 01:03 PM
Could that drop in the top end be tyre slip with the Power One?
Thinking with the way the curve "wobbles" at the top end.
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WARBIRD
Needs a job
Posts: 2739
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posted October 27, 2012 01:09 PM
Clutch slipping up top??????
____________
I'd Rather Be Roadracing.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted October 27, 2012 01:16 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 27 Oct 2012 21:24
I guess it is possible that the clutch slipped but my guess ( and just a guess ) is tire spinning ..
On the old 200I dyno we had if the tire spun the motor would flat line like your dyno chart shows .. Roys 1530 motor would spin on the first few pulls till it got heat in the tire .. When spinning it would pull up to 7k or 8K and then just stop or greatly slow down like you put the brakes on ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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lazarosp
Novice Class
Posts: 67
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posted October 27, 2012 01:47 PM
I don't think it is tire slippage the cause.
Last time I dynoed it with a Bridgestone S20 and 42psi pressure and didn't slip and this time I set the P1 to 30psi. The operator said that we had too much detonation at all rpm (I have 13.5 comp and ignition timing advanced) maybe the cause is the fuel? I always go to the same station and use 100 octane unleaded.
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kawanator
Novice Class
Posts: 54
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posted October 27, 2012 06:12 PM
Brock didn't build a viable business by listening to negative people (who may or may not be sponsered by his opposition) and he won't start now.
He is successful because he is passionate, innovative, he also listens to his customers and gives them what they want.
America and the Western world businesses need to go back to this formula to get out of recession, but instead, they allow accountants and lawyers to take control !!!!
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kawa74
Expert Class
Posts: 226
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posted October 27, 2012 07:35 PM
quote:
I don't think it is tire slippage the cause.
Last time I dynoed it with a Bridgestone S20 and 42psi pressure and didn't slip and this time I set the P1 to 30psi. The operator said that we had too much detonation at all rpm (I have 13.5 comp and ignition timing advanced) maybe the cause is the fuel? I always go to the same station and use 100 octane unleaded.
I believe you answered the Question. ( 13.5 compression and Ignition Advanced)
Pull some timing or get some better Fuel, doubt you are getting ( True )100 octane from the Pump . Go to a racetrack and get you 5 gals of Sealed Gas.
Detonation, any at all will hurt Power
. Prolonged Detonation will Melt pistons, burn through Ring lands, bend Rods and Pound the Bearings to Death.
____________
"I have never met a man so Ignorant that I coun't Learn from him"..."Galileo"
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