cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted April 04, 2013 12:40 PM
 Edited By: cliffrandall on 4 Apr 2013 20:42
quote:
What does spinning a bike on the dyno that can go to 300 mph show if the bike won't go anywhere near that speed? I understand dynotuning ... or breaking a motor in on the dyno....but spinning a bike on the dyno just to see how fast it can spin the drum doesn't demonstrate how fast the vehicle actually goes.
I can spin a Ninja 250 to 150 mph on the dyno....doesn't mean it will do it.
What data will you be able to take away with you that you can apply to a real world run by just spinning it as high as possible?
It would seem more beneficial to start slowly approaching higher and higher speeds in the real world...there you may find out you have stability problems or re-gear the bike for what you're actually running...not just spinning on the dyno.
Here's the deal, it's real simple - We're at the Champion dyno to break-in the motor and see what type of numbers the Muzzy ZX-14HT can make - probably best way to do it in a police enforced country like Canada...... We'll also dial in the Muzzy n2o, which I'll abbreviate on the spot if necessary, so we get a good solid 60 hp. Now, once all that is done - 'for fun' we'll simulate a standing start Mirabel/Ohio mile run and wind her up throwing the juice in 6th to make sure everything is working just as it should........Simple and fun test, that's all, simple and fun. Now relax and enjoy the thread.
Cliff
  
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Quarter Pounder
Pro
with Cheese
Posts: 1069
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posted April 04, 2013 01:13 PM
I don't see 60k or anywhere near that. Hell, my Combat touring 14 could do everything that one does and be more comfy to boot, and not even close to that kind of money.
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SWB 2008 ZX-14
9.19 @ 151
5.98 @ 123
1.53 60'
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted April 04, 2013 01:29 PM
Cliff....I understand breaking the motor in, tuning on nitrous, etc.
I just don't understand how wringing the bike out on the dyno "simulates" any top speed.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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PuckDracon
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted April 04, 2013 01:54 PM
Lurked since page 1 but don't think I've posted in here yet.
Finished product looks sinister. Now I'm thinking of having my mid pipes ceramic coated black as well...
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2012 ZX14R. Too many pretty mods and not enough go fast ones.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted April 04, 2013 03:58 PM
quote:
Hi guys........On Saturday June 1st we'll be taking the HT project to Dan at Champion Cycle's Dynocenter here in Toronto where we'll perform a proper break-in 'on the dyno' (I can't break this motor in unless I rent Mosport for the day), then we'll dial in the 60hp Muzzy n2o shot with a DynoJet overlay map.......We'll also be using the Muzzy air-shifter, showing you how it all works......After this is completed and the bike has cooled down, we'll simulate a top speed run in 6th gear to get some idea of what the bike is capable of (Dan has his dyno programmed to handle 300mph) albeit without the air drag coefficient - that doesn't really make any difference does it?
We'll be sure to produce a video for everyone to enjoy. Should be fun.
Cliff
I'm going to get my local dyno programmed to handle 400 mph. That way I can get an idea of what my bike is capable of. I am just worried that an even faster guy will get his dyno programmed to handle 500 mph...then he gets the record and I go home empty-handed!! 
But seriously, if you really want to see if your engine is up to the task, load it using the eddy brake while on the nitrous. If you hold it near redline in 6th, while spraying, for about 15 seconds, that is about as close as you are going to get to putting the engine under the kind of load it will see in a 1.5 mile LSR run. You might want to turn those cooling fans to "high". 
Shane
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted April 05, 2013 04:29 AM
quote:
Cliff....I understand breaking the motor in, tuning on nitrous, etc.
I just don't understand how wringing the bike out on the dyno "simulates" any top speed.
It doesn't, as explained, it's just a fun f*&^%ing pull, so we can watch the bike spin up to about 230mpg in top gear. If for no other reason, it'll stave off the 'media' until the movie is released this summer!
Cliff
P.S. - When is the Ohio Mile and/or any other similar Northern USA event? Thanks.
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted April 05, 2013 07:04 AM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 5 Apr 2013 18:55
quote:
quote:
Hi guys........On Saturday June 1st we'll be taking the HT project to Dan at Champion Cycle's Dynocenter here in Toronto where we'll perform a proper break-in 'on the dyno' (I can't break this motor in unless I rent Mosport for the day), then we'll dial in the 60hp Muzzy n2o shot with a DynoJet overlay map.......We'll also be using the Muzzy air-shifter, showing you how it all works......After this is completed and the bike has cooled down, we'll simulate a top speed run in 6th gear to get some idea of what the bike is capable of (Dan has his dyno programmed to handle 300mph) albeit without the air drag coefficient - that doesn't really make any difference does it?
We'll be sure to produce a video for everyone to enjoy. Should be fun.
Cliff
I'm going to get my local dyno programmed to handle 400 mph. That way I can get an idea of what my bike is capable of. I am just worried that an even faster guy will get his dyno programmed to handle 500 mph...then he gets the record and I go home empty-handed!!
But seriously, if you really want to see if your engine is up to the task, load it using the eddy brake while on the nitrous. If you hold it near redline in 6th, while spraying, for about 15 seconds, that is about as close as you are going to get to putting the engine under the kind of load it will see in a 1.5 mile LSR run. You might want to turn those cooling fans to "high".
Thanks brother, either everyone is stupid or there was a misunderstanding here, we aren't going to just rev the piss out of the bike with no resistance on the drum, Dan simply indicated that his dyno was programmed to 'read' up to 300 mph - many dyno's are not. We will most certainly have the pressure turned up to the proper degree on the new Dyno Center at Champion Cycle for the HT in order to get accurate readings of both HP (which I'm predicting wil be north of 200hp 'on the motor' and in the 250hp range on juice) and the concurrent speed....This process is very useful from a gearing, otherwise when we get to Mirabel or Ohio and not have the correct (close depending on the air conditions) set-up.
Now let's stop finding fault with everything said on this fuc^%$# site and enjoy the experiences for f*&&% sakes!
Cliff
Shane
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted April 05, 2013 07:17 AM
When is the Ohio Mile or the next LSR event? If possible I'd like to meet you guys. Always makes for better conversation.
Cliff
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted April 05, 2013 12:34 PM
Got it.........http://ecta-lsr.net/?page_id=27
Cliff
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted April 22, 2013 04:37 PM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 23 Apr 2013 00:38
An exciting new sponsor came on-board today to help complete the HT project (at least as far as riding this beast on the street is concerned) Radar Screamer are sending their 'audio and super bright visual' LED (with 3 stage dimmer & kill switch) which all plugs right into the Belltronics ST1 radar detector that we have velcro'd in the 'other saddle bag'......Never realized just how handy these hard bags would be!
I'll get a pic when it's all complete with the Bell hardwire kit etc.
Cliff
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted April 30, 2013 04:40 AM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 30 Apr 2013 13:22
The HT project will get it's first run this weekend with a Sunday morning ride to the "The Ice House" in Campbellville Ontario - any local folks who might like to come out and say hello would be welcomed.......I had the Naked 1270 out this past weekend, man that's a fun bike and at 464lbs wet (100lbs less then my HT) it'll still move with the best of them to 100mph, then you become a human spinnaker. I'm looking forward to feeling the 'ultra refined' power of the new 14 in relation to the original 12. I'll let you know my thoughts after the ride.
Cliff
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted May 04, 2013 07:47 AM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 4 May 2013 16:46
Took the HT project out this am for a 25 miles 'shake-down' run......First impressions - a very refined ZX1270. Hydraulic clutch is wonderful and easy to use, even with Brock's kit in place (I left the slipper and just used Brock's shims and springs).
Brakes are excellent, handling and balance seem perfect with the BST wheels and the Muzzy lowering kit (set in the middle hole).
Power wise, maybe a more linear delivery, however I didn't really feel any difference between my 1270 (464lbs @190hp) and this 'Streamliner' (550lbs and 200hp). Now that said I only wound it up to about 8000rpm today, so we'll see tomorrow when I plan to pick it up a bit - wanted to make sure everything was working properly on today's short ride - which it was.
BTW - this bike is IMO an absolute highway miler, you could ride it to Vancouver this afternoon it's so friggin smooth. The Kappa hard bags are beautiful to have for carrying n2o bottles, rain suit, wallet, cell phone, PC5 connections, tools, ball cap, sun glasses etc .etc. or whatever you want. So far I have noticed no effect on the handling whatsoever to 100mph....More to come tomorrow.
Cliff
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted May 05, 2013 10:42 AM
Correction - 14 would kill the 1270!!!!!!!! Threw some timing at a richer map (12.8 to 1) at it, runs much better.
Cliff
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted May 07, 2013 06:33 PM
FYI........My bike idles at 15 to 1 A/F, too lean - I added 3 pts of fuel and brought it down to 12.8 to 1, it starts better and idles better, I also added 3 degrees of timing which woke mine up right from idle, I run Sunoco 94........EGT's read anywhere between 1250-1325 degrees when I'm running on the street from 2000rpm - 11,000rpm, at 12.8/13 to 1 A/F...... At 13.2 to 1 A/F we see 1350-1400 in the midrange 'hot spot' around 4500K on my set-up. Remember EGT location can alter temps from one motor to another, the trick is to use your readings as a baseline on your motor. On the Muzzy 60shot juice (to be tuned on the Champion Dyno in the next couple of wks) we'll probably see about 12 to 1'ish' A/F and a few additional degrees on the EGT's but nothing nasty, which if it happens, we'll control with more fuel.
Cliff
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted May 12, 2013 05:06 AM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 12 May 2013 16:40
Just had to write this note after another exciting ride..........My expectations were very, very high when we built this HT project. That said, I can emphatically state that I have never enjoyed a bike more in my life, period! This 14 is absolutely amazing and a thrill to ride anywhere at any time. The way it works and handles is so smooth and the way it delivers power is so incredibly linear (and a little misleading when you donw at the speedo) that the bike makes riding effortless and very enjoyable, I wouldn't change a thing........Big thumbs up to Kawi, "you've come a long way baby!" Thank you for a job well done.
Cheers,
Cliff
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted May 13, 2013 03:32 AM
Dammit all to hell....... I just wrote a long response to this thread and my shitty internet connection timed out and the entire post was lost. Ok, I'll try this again (and copy my reply before hitting "submit reply" this time).
First off, Cliff, the bike looks great and your attention to detail is great. It's always great for this brand to get a little bit more marketing out there. I look forward to reading the stories/reviews of this bike from the major publications. It's also great to see sponsors stepping up and supporting this community. Thanks for the documented thread, it was a good read.
Now to those of you giving this guy a bunch of grief. I've been around here for a while so I figure I have a little bit of clout. Also, Cliff is speaking for his sponsors so he can't exactly tell you all off, but guess what, I can. The guy is documenting the process of his hard work and HIS DREAM and you get on here to not only discredit his hard work, but also tell him he's stupid for several of the mods he's chosen. Then you go on to tell him how you'd do it. Great, go do it then! I'd love to see another try to put that type of sponsorship behind a build and complete it with HALF the success. All of you internet heroes who just type without thinking make me sick. Most of you are missing the point and get so caught up on the minute details. He's not saying he would go out and pay $5k for ti egt bungs from KTM Italy, he's saying the work on this bike is world class and giving a shout out to all of the sponsors who've helped him along the way. If I had some custom one off parts, I'd probably try to associate a monetary value to them as well just to feel pretty cool about what's on my bike and what "it's worth." Sure, it's not worth $60k, and he didn't pay that for it, but it's a rolling showcase for the sponsors of this project.
Now, think of it from this perspective. If you were a sponsor of this project, and you happened to be following this build, what'd you think? I'd say to myself, to hell with this ungrateful community, next time I'm investing my marketing dollars to another brand/community.
Shane, when you were doing your build thread for your 8 second bike, nobody chided you for how many times you went through exhausts, hell you bought the same exhaust twice, and then sold it all for a ti-winder. Nobody called you a dumbass for throwing away money. It didn't matter, that wasn't the point, it was your thread, and your build. You were building what you wanted (your dream), and having a good time doing it. That was evident through the documentation and you reaching your goals. That's the fun of this community and the point of forums. Now you get on here and ride his ass about every little detail, and for what? You think your shit smells sweet?
Cliff, don't get discouraged, just remember, the critics are loud but they represent a small portion of this community. I commend you for doing something different and following through with what you said you were going to do. Enjoy the fruits of your labor and keep the rubber side down.
Jorgen Gilbertson
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J_ZX14
Novice Class
Posts: 72
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posted May 13, 2013 07:20 AM
quote:
Dammit all to hell....... I just wrote a long response to this thread and my shitty internet connection timed out and the entire post was lost. Ok, I'll try this again (and copy my reply before hitting "submit reply" this time).
First off, Cliff, the bike looks great and your attention to detail is great. It's always great for this brand to get a little bit more marketing out there. I look forward to reading the stories/reviews of this bike from the major publications. It's also great to see sponsors stepping up and supporting this community. Thanks for the documented thread, it was a good read.
Now to those of you giving this guy a bunch of grief. I've been around here for a while so I figure I have a little bit of clout. Also, Cliff is speaking for his sponsors so he can't exactly tell you all off, but guess what, I can. The guy is documenting the process of his hard work and HIS DREAM and you get on here to not only discredit his hard work, but also tell him he's stupid for several of the mods he's chosen. Then you go on to tell him how you'd do it. Great, go do it then! I'd love to see another try to put that type of sponsorship behind a build and complete it with HALF the success. All of you internet heroes who just type without thinking make me sick. Most of you are missing the point and get so caught up on the minute details. He's not saying he would go out and pay $5k for ti egt bungs from KTM Italy, he's saying the work on this bike is world class and giving a shout out to all of the sponsors who've helped him along the way. If I had some custom one off parts, I'd probably try to associate a monetary value to them as well just to feel pretty cool about what's on my bike and what "it's worth." Sure, it's not worth $60k, and he didn't pay that for it, but it's a rolling showcase for the sponsors of this project.
Now, think of it from this perspective. If you were a sponsor of this project, and you happened to be following this build, what'd you think? I'd say to myself, to hell with this ungrateful community, next time I'm investing my marketing dollars to another brand/community.
Shane, when you were doing your build thread for your 8 second bike, nobody chided you for how many times you went through exhausts, hell you bought the same exhaust twice, and then sold it all for a ti-winder. Nobody called you a dumbass for throwing away money. It didn't matter, that wasn't the point, it was your thread, and your build. You were building what you wanted (your dream), and having a good time doing it. That was evident through the documentation and you reaching your goals. That's the fun of this community and the point of forums. Now you get on here and ride his ass about every little detail, and for what? You think your shit smells sweet?
Cliff, don't get discouraged, just remember, the critics are loud but they represent a small portion of this community. I commend you for doing something different and following through with what you said you were going to do. Enjoy the fruits of your labor and keep the rubber side down.
Jorgen Gilbertson
+1
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*MARALIZE LEGAJUANA!*
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extrapolator
Parking Attendant
Posts: 6
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posted May 13, 2013 07:34 AM
quote:
Dammit all to hell....... I just wrote a long response to this thread and my shitty internet connection timed out and the entire post was lost. Ok, I'll try this again (and copy my reply before hitting "submit reply" this time).
When my 'mental clock' tells me I may have taken too long when typing, and I darn sure don't wanna re-type, I copy / paste what I wrote into Notepad, then come back & submit ... & if the time-out does occur at least I can just re-paste it back in & then submit.
x2 ... Agree with your post BTW
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted May 13, 2013 02:57 PM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 13 May 2013 23:19
Cliff, don't get discouraged, just remember, the critics are loud but they represent a small portion of this community. I commend you for doing something different and following through with what you said you were going to do. Enjoy the fruits of your labor and keep the rubber side down.
Thank you my friend, however after building 6 exciting 'sponsored' projects on-line (2 sleds & 4 bikes) I've become pretty much bulletproof to the negative feedback - funny, it usually arrives about the same time as the sponsored products - and greatly appreciative of the positive comments received from brave souls like yourself.........Sponsors, like everybody else you'll ever meet in life, buy 'hustle', which is best defined by passion + enthusiasm + results, and a little 'succinct articulation'.......A great formula for success in life.
Cliff
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moko
Novice Class
Posts: 75
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posted May 14, 2013 10:37 AM
Edited By: moko on 14 May 2013 18:39
very nice Cliff.....its gave me some ideas for my own build.
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted May 14, 2013 01:44 PM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 15 May 2013 00:15
Thanks moko.......Stay 'tuned', we head to the Champion Dyno next weekend to squeeze every last once of power out of this baby - then we'll hit the Muzzy juice.....Predictions, I'm going to go out on a limb and say - 210hp on the motor, 270hp on the juice.
Cliff
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted May 17, 2013 06:27 PM
Out for a 'spirited' ride tonight, slowly leaning out my PC5 Auto Tune map (up to 13.4 to 1 now) and and it feels stonger, we'll find out next week on the dyno........At one point I thought my rear drivetrain and/or wheel was damaged - turned out I was lighting up then 'hopping' the rear tire under full power in second gear at 200klms, unreal...........Traction is not the best here in Toronto at about 67 degrees, sure is fun thou!
Cliff
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted May 19, 2013 11:22 AM
Edited By: cliffrandall on 19 May 2013 21:42
After another great ride this am, here are my 'seat of the pants' thoughts on my 14R as it is set-up 'pre' Champion Cycle's dyno with 1000lkms on the clock and 3 oil changes...........Appears to make the most power at 13.5 to 1 A/F, with 0 ignition advance (IA only helped mine when the motor was stone cold, it did not appear to have any real effect elsewhere after several sessions). EGT's remain around 1300-1350, with less heat showing now that the motor is broken in. 10/30 synthetic works fine (I broke my in on it) and no need for 93 octane fuel, 91 is better with no noticeable detonation (on the juice will mix 50/50 with C12) remember thes less octane you can use the more power you make, just be careful on those hot muggy days, these bikes do not have detonation sensors as far as I know.........For street use 32psi in the rear tire (34 front) anymore air and my Dunlops break loose in 2nd gear. Any less and IMO, the tire life will be significantly reduced by highway heat - I've done track days on these Q2's at 30psi, they were good, but shot at the end of the session.
Great fun riding this baby at night, the instrument cluster is fabulous to watch........I'll try and post the map my PC5 Auto Tuner is building so you can see what's happening relative to the Guhl map. Again we won't know if it's making more power until we get to the dyno, however it certainly feels good and you might want to try it yourself. FYI - this maps is being built with the ram-air fully utilized, something the dyno can not accurately do, hence unless modified accordingly, many dyno maps are hot.
Cliff
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted May 19, 2013 06:58 PM
Forgot to mention my gas mileage - 200klms per tank, when I'm sensible.
Cliff
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PuckDracon
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted May 19, 2013 08:42 PM
Bike looks great and has come a long way. Keep in mind there are TONS of views on this thread and many people are enjoying it who may not post much at all, like myself.
Don't get too caught up with the "Vocal Minority".
____________
2012 ZX14R. Too many pretty mods and not enough go fast ones.
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