Obba
Expert Class
Posts: 455
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posted December 01, 2011 12:21 AM
 Edited By: Obba on 1 Dec 2011 08:23
Why can't America make bikes like the ZX14R ?
Been watching the the new ZX14R launch and now the first impressions, like everybody else here on this forum.
Seen Brock and Ricky G give their amazing views etc.
All praising the power, stability, handling, suspension, Traction control and so on.
Arguing about the Busa and the ZX14... (all in good fun though!).
So don't flame me for this question, ok!
Why can't the United States of America make a bike that the Japanese seem to churn out every few years?
Surely, it's not that hard to produce a bike with a 1300cc / 1500cc sports class displacement in the US?
Brock, Muzzy and other USA based (As well as the UK), reviewers and makers of highly profitable add ons, always seem to fnd the little extras that make these [Overseas made] bikes perform better and faster...
They all seem to be the experts in getting better HP, better torque, better AFR's, better suspension, better - basically everything - then the original makers made it....
Japan has been going through a massive - big time - recession. Yet in the times of 'this' recession, Kawasaki still moved ahead with the ZX14R....
Just looks likes to me that the 'experts' are following the leaders... The japs do the hard work (pay for the R&D), make the bikes, and who gives a f**k, if they fail.
But hey! If they make a good one: "Where with ya buddy"!
Look at the number of head porters and cam, piston, bearing 'enhancment' guys/companys on this forum (in the USA), improving on these Japanese bikes...
If they know how to improve (on the import), why cant the USA make a bike internally and make it 'subdude', thus allowing the huge financial power house you guys have to buy the 'improvments', thus keeping all the labour and profits to stay within the States...?
Like all the other hi tech products (Plasma TV's etc), are made overseas. Like England with BMW owning Rolls Royce and the Mini - BMW sold millions of Minis - why couldn't the UK see a market for a 'new' Mini?
The 'biggest and best' powers of industry and invention (Harley , BSA, Triumph, Ariel), had it.
Why can't a 'super power' make a motor bike up to the standards that other [ONE] country(s), can make?
  
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Greggy
Expert Class
Posts: 150
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posted December 01, 2011 01:27 AM
Good question, and one that cannot be answered properly in just a few setences, but one of the primary reasons the USA cannot do it (on a large scale at least) is that Uncle Sam and many big business leaders in the US decided some time ago that manuafacturing was not a good business to be in, and instead decided to concentrate on the service industries.
The result of that was many extremely good US based companies that were world leaders in what they made were bought out, broken up or sold overseas to make a quick buck for the greedy owners & share-holders.
But that wasn't a good plan for the longer term, as right now the US debt (as at 01-Dec-2011) is $15,059,985,148,000.00 - over 15 Trillion dollars!!!!!!!!
That's an absolutely massive figure, and one of the main reasons it got so high is that the USA externalised much of its manufacturing and intellectual knowledge, losing the profits its own companies once made to overseas companies, and basically it become just a big giant consumer of resources and products. The US then borrowed heavily to meet its spending habits, and now it's in a gigantic financial mess.
The USA still has many really clever and bright people who are indeed experts in their field, the trouble is that in such cases they are often just a few indivduals, a small group of people or just a tiny company... not large enough to pull off building a world class machine such as an equivalent to the new 2102 ZX-14R.
The Japanese on the other hand, even during a big recession and having suffered from earthquakes, tsunamis, flooding and nuclear meltdowns will press ahead and be very successful not only at building bikes like the ZX-14R but just about anything else they put their minds to.
I really wish the USA can get a grip on itself and turn things around but with a debt overhead like the one it has I'm not really sure it can.
Don't worry, we here in Australia are not that well off either, but for now our vast natural resources and relatively small international debt are going to keep us quite well off for a while yet.
Greggy
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2012 ZX-14R ABS - Spark Black - Two Brothers V.A.L.E. Carbon slip ons P1X tips - Powerbronze DB screen.
1990 ZX-10 Ninja - Megacycle stainless steel mufflers - gear-sack rack - tinted screen.
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LeoVinceZX14
Expert Class
Thankfully...its paid for...
Posts: 386
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posted December 01, 2011 02:01 AM
My 2 cents...
Building on what Greggy wrote (well said btw,bro). The biggest other obstacle I see is the business mentality and access to the capital to fund it. Wall Street has poisoned the mindset of current executives to focus solely on short term profits and self enrichment. How often are the top people making tons of $ while the actual company is doing poorly? The decisions that maximize profit..today often sacrifice long-term employment and/or the manufacturing base as Greggy stated.
Part of why Japan/Asia dominates with manufacture of bikes like the ZX14R is their...mindset. Manufacturing is a core competency that is to be defended. Certainly we have the know how collectively among the various participants in the aftermarket industry here.
The other problem they would face is access to the large pools of capital needed to fund a full scale operation capable of all the processes needed to develop and produce the bike. Brock himself, manufactures his products outside the US because he cannot get the quality needed at a competitive price...at home.
Greed has killed our manufacturing capability because a bunch of "smart" guys studied at business schools and decided "hey its better to outsource the low profit manufacturing to a low-wage country so we can make more.....$". Remember we (Americans) are lazy workers who want to be paid...too much, right? Could that be turned around?, I don't know in the current "finger pointing, but do...nothing useful" political/business climate.
I'm done,
Leo
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'12 14R SE
PC V
Custom map
BMC filter
Leo Vince 4-2-1 w/ carbon can
Sato frame sliders
Supersprox 42T
Cox radiator guard
DID 530 X-ring chain.
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dbeadling
Zone Head
Posts: 699
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posted December 01, 2011 02:43 AM
just go to mcdonalds and order the mic bike do you want that super sized with fries?
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FAST Z14
Expert Class
Posts: 184
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posted December 01, 2011 03:31 AM
And I thought why the Americans dont build bikes like the ZX14R is because they already have build the best bike a Harley Dangerous hehehe just joking.
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FOLY HUCK
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted December 01, 2011 04:57 AM
why can't the japanese build pick-up trucks..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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dbeadling
Zone Head
Posts: 699
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posted December 01, 2011 05:39 AM
all the hd clothes come from china.
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shawnski
Pro
Posts: 1809
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posted December 01, 2011 05:53 AM
Hardly davidson working on one like ZX14 right now but they are having reliability issues with it..
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dbeadling
Zone Head
Posts: 699
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posted December 01, 2011 07:02 AM
just rev the hell out of it at the traffic light and show everybody how cool you are
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LeonidasZX14
Pro
Posts: 1277
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posted December 01, 2011 08:47 AM
Edited By: LeonidasZX14 on 1 Dec 2011 16:55
quote:
why can't the japanese build pick-up trucks..
They can...take a look at the little Nissan hardbody that thing is still running strong. I see tons of those little trucks still around. The Tacoma is a bad ass truck that sells very well. The Tundra makes more power than any American made truck out and is much better built. I think the resale value of both the Tundra and the Titan speaks volumes on the quality of the truck. Diesel trucks are whole different story though. Japs can't touch them but I do know that the motors outlast the interiors and exteriors of the truck. I know Nissans and Toyotas aren't cool to drive in Texas but they are in other parts of civilized parts of the US.
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09' ZX14
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted December 01, 2011 09:53 AM
I have often wondered the same thing. Very perplexing. Buell had GREAT ideas but IDK why they didn't just follow the basic sportbike formula the Japanese have established and pretty much stuck to for at least 30 years now.
The economy has been so weak that starting any business is awfully difficult. There would need to be a large volume of sales to justify the R/D it would take to improve upon a Japanese bike.
Certainly seems doable in better economic times. I would be hesitant to buy an American bike, though. Sorry to say, Harley/Buell ain't the best track record. The Japanese have created a market and an image of their own and thatis the sportbike I identify with. American cars still have not shaken the bad rep they developed over the years while Toyota/Honda/Subaru/Mitsubishi were developing quality vehicles.
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BrucerZX14
Expert Class
Posts: 373
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posted December 01, 2011 10:14 AM
Edited By: BrucerZX14 on 1 Dec 2011 18:15
quote:
quote:
why can't the japanese build pick-up trucks..
They can...take a look at the little Nissan hardbody that thing is still running strong. I see tons of those little trucks still around. The Tacoma is a bad ass truck that sells very well. The Tundra makes more power than any American made truck out and is much better built. I think the resale value of both the Tundra and the Titan speaks volumes on the quality of the truck. Diesel trucks are whole different story though. Japs can't touch them but I do know that the motors outlast the interiors and exteriors of the truck. I know Nissans and Toyotas aren't cool to drive in Texas but they are in other parts of civilized parts of the US.
The Tundra is built in San Antonio, TX so driving mine makes me feel good. Texans made money puttin' it together. There's a lot of them down here too.
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shawnski
Pro
Posts: 1809
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posted December 01, 2011 10:19 AM
quote:
I have often wondered the same thing. Very perplexing. Buell had GREAT ideas but IDK why they didn't just follow the basic sportbike formula the Japanese have established and pretty much stuck to for at least 30 years now.
The economy has been so weak that starting any business is awfully difficult. There would need to be a large volume of sales to justify the R/D it would take to improve upon a Japanese bike.
Certainly seems doable in better economic times. I would be hesitant to buy an American bike, though. Sorry to say, Harley/Buell ain't the best track record. The Japanese have created a market and an image of their own and thatis the sportbike I identify with. American cars still have not shaken the bad rep they developed over the years while Toyota/Honda/Subaru/Mitsubishi were developing quality vehicles.
minus MITSUBISHI..
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted December 01, 2011 10:20 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
why can't the japanese build pick-up trucks..
They can...take a look at the little Nissan hardbody that thing is still running strong. I see tons of those little trucks still around. The Tacoma is a bad ass truck that sells very well. The Tundra makes more power than any American made truck out and is much better built. I think the resale value of both the Tundra and the Titan speaks volumes on the quality of the truck. Diesel trucks are whole different story though. Japs can't touch them but I do know that the motors outlast the interiors and exteriors of the truck. I know Nissans and Toyotas aren't cool to drive in Texas but they are in other parts of civilized parts of the US.
The Tundra is built in San Antonio, TX so driving mine makes me feel good. Texans made money puttin' it together. There's a lot of them down here too.
try pulling a 40ft trailer behind those japense trucks
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madnessracing
Pro
Vmax and Busa Beater
Posts: 1140
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posted December 01, 2011 10:48 AM
quote:
why can't the japanese build pick-up trucks..
Toyota have diesel trucks in japan and a lot of countries since back in the 70s but for some reason they dont send them to the US!!
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Shorty's Performance
Team Madness Racing
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dhobbs74
Novice Class
Posts: 42
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posted December 01, 2011 11:30 AM
Trust me when I say you don't want America building sport bikes because the price of a bike like the zx14r would be well over 20,000 dollars
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blueLIGHTning
Expert Class
Posts: 227
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posted December 01, 2011 12:25 PM
Damn right the Japanese can build trucks just go to Europe and check them out. A little know fact for a long time the Japanese where not allowed to bring full size trucks to North America because it was the bread and butter of GM, Ford etc. Not only can they build trucks but amazing feul efficient 4 cylinder diesels that put Ford, GM and Dodge to shame. It will blow your mind what a 4 cylinder diesel mated to a good transmission can pull. American trucks almost have the same size diesels as a rig pulling 40 tons. Toyota still has no diesel truck in North America yet good luck finding a gasoline engined toyota truck in Europe and everywhere else. Why in hell do you need a 7.4, 6 litre etc diesel engine in basically a half ton truck?? Go to europe and see what the Japs can do with large trucks, cargo vans etc.
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted December 01, 2011 01:00 PM
quote:
Damn right the Japanese can build trucks just go to Europe and check them out. A little know fact for a long time the Japanese where not allowed to bring full size trucks to North America because it was the bread and butter of GM, Ford etc. Not only can they build trucks but amazing feul efficient 4 cylinder diesels that put Ford, GM and Dodge to shame. It will blow your mind what a 4 cylinder diesel mated to a good transmission can pull. American trucks almost have the same size diesels as a rig pulling 40 tons. Toyota still has no diesel truck in North America yet good luck finding a gasoline engined toyota truck in Europe and everywhere else. Why in hell do you need a 7.4, 6 litre etc diesel engine in basically a half ton truck?? Go to europe and see what the Japs can do with large trucks, cargo vans etc.
yada yada yada .. lets see a jap or european truck pull a 15.000lb trailer loaded with hay at 70mph for 200miiles..
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madnessracing
Pro
Vmax and Busa Beater
Posts: 1140
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posted December 01, 2011 01:02 PM
1bad You have no clue on what you're talking about!!
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Shorty's Performance
Team Madness Racing
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted December 01, 2011 01:07 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 1 Dec 2011 21:10
quote:
1bad You have no clue on what you're talking about!!
yeah i do .. i own a Russian tractor.. what a piece of shit..
same with the Japanese tractors
the Europeans tractors
the Chinese tractors
AND MY F 250 will pull any of those foreign trucks in a truck pull
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bradkong12
Expert Class
Posts: 250
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posted December 01, 2011 01:30 PM
hate to say it , but toyota make the most reliable trucks or cars, thats y toyota hasn't gone bankrupt
in kentucky toyota is adding jobs while ford is laying off!!!!!!!! YYYYYYY
YYYYYYYY?? SIMPLE , if a japanese CEO makes MILLIONS of dollar and the company goes BROKE!!!!!!
he won't just b FIRED he would probley b JAILED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
its easy just lower the top 3percent of income and will create jobs, thats what BUSH did and it worked
just look how good we were doing n 2008, LOL
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bradkong12
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bradkong12
Expert Class
Posts: 250
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posted December 01, 2011 02:05 PM
just research japanese tax rates, u might understand how JAPAN ,
has a high speed rail, nuclear , wind, solar energy, health care, and the whole country is union every 1
hate to say if but if AMERICA had all the shit that has happened to japan the last couple years
WOOOO we would b so fucked!! so fucked!
we r allready n deep deep shit, my wife and i make 45,000dol a year and raise 5 yes 5 teenage girls
yes we r broke as hell receive no food stamps or medicaid for r girls
thats fine we dont need help from the government BUT the government DOES NEED HELP from every american !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i will GLADLY pay 1 or 2 percent more in taxes thats 450dol to 900dol a year, yes it would hurt us
BUT im fine with that if it helps AMERICA , so my kids and grand kids can prosper in the GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD
every heard of JFK???? ""its not what my country can do for me BUT""" u know the rest
research the tax rates back then!!! back then ur wife could stay home with the kids, union were stroung
and GM FORD and on and on were doing great, INSANE doesn't take a account to balance a budget
send LESS pay MORE simple, but GREED is going to ruin the GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD
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bradkong12
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shawnski
Pro
Posts: 1809
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posted December 01, 2011 02:12 PM
quote:
hate to say it , but toyota make the most reliable trucks or cars, thats y toyota hasn't gone bankrupt
in kentucky toyota is adding jobs while ford is laying off!!!!!!!! YYYYYYY
YYYYYYYY?? SIMPLE , if a japanese CEO makes MILLIONS of dollar and the company goes BROKE!!!!!!
he won't just b FIRED he would probley b JAILED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
its easy just lower the top 3percent of income and will create jobs, thats what BUSH did and it worked
just look how good we were doing n 2008, LOL
I would not say the most reliable... They have lost some of their reliability reputation because trying to be no. 1
in sales...
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bradkong12
Expert Class
Posts: 250
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posted December 01, 2011 02:13 PM
if me and my wife want 2012 ZX14R , we don't get a job with less INCOME then go buy 1
REALLY does make much sence
if we wanted to keep riding the 1981 KZ sure that would work
more is what got us the 2008 ZX14
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bradkong12
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bradkong12
Expert Class
Posts: 250
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posted December 01, 2011 02:16 PM
yeah true toyota has lost a little reliability but still as good as anything
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bradkong12
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