wrongway
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posted August 07, 2011 11:06 AM
Muzzy stroker kit piston problem
I had finally decided to freshen up the 1530 motor and at first look I was pretty happy with the general shape of the motor. But after a more careful inspection I found a few issues , most I could do at the shop.. I had to hone the rods and do a little bit of clean up on the block and heads .. not too bad.
But today I found cracks on all the pistons ... I dont know if I am lucky to have gone this far without a failure or unlucky to have this problem at all.
here are couple of pics incase you have this type of piston.
Roy
  
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1badzx12r
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posted August 07, 2011 11:13 AM
nothing a welder can't fix ..
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wrongway
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posted August 07, 2011 11:17 AM
quote:
nothing a welder can't fix ..
then I can sell them on ebay :-) or may to you ,,,
low mileage, just used for a dyno test
Roy
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dubious
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posted August 07, 2011 11:50 AM
wow,I would expect to see it crack where it did in the first pic, but I find is amazing that the pin boss is cracked in the second pic, not the skirt at the edge of the boss, like pic 2!
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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RICH CRAFT 1
Zone Head
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posted August 07, 2011 11:58 AM
you or lucky! Muzzy ?
Ken
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Red 06 ZX14 RR
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dubious
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posted August 07, 2011 12:02 PM
 Edited By: dubious on 7 Aug 2011 20:03
Roy, how many miles, runs, hours on that motor?
Considering what it is I wouldnt expect more than 1 or 2 seasons out of them motor kits, especially with Nitrous, and being antest mule and all.
IMO its held together well!
With the longer stroke and bigger slugs, did you reduce the rev limiter?
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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jetskidave
Expert Class
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posted August 07, 2011 12:10 PM
Very Very lucky.......Muzzy wont stand behind it I'll bet.
Dave
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2014 ZX14R Flat Black
Akrapovic 4 into 1 exhaust CNC Performance high performance street motor stock bore 14 to 1 CP pistons
CNC ported head, Cams, 48mm Bored throttle bodies, complete blueprinted engine,
10 Over Adams arm, GPR stabilizer, air shifter, quickshifter Guhl reflash ECU with duel maps installed in the ECU.
243hp, 302 hp on Nitrous progessive controller. BST carbon rims
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dubious
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posted August 07, 2011 12:20 PM
To be fair, I wouldnt expect the manufacture to stand behind motor component that were designed and used to test the limits of metallurgy, and physics.
Comonent used for racing purposes, with exteneded piston speeds, less piston stability ( 2rings), less piston dwell, and increased rod angles, with exteneded use near the rev limiter for LSR, and with unknown fuel, or ignition timing settings, in addition to unknown rpm limits, and the use of nitrous oxide.
Muzzy doesnt machine those pistons either, or provide the slugs they were machined from.
I think Roy is a great guy, brings much knowledge to the table, and in no way am I slandering him at all. Im just being reasonable with the expectations to warantee a product used in unkown , and in testing environments.
Peace out.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Quarter Pounder
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posted August 07, 2011 01:04 PM
oh damn! You got very lucky Roy....glad you were not WFO at speed and have that let go. That would have been a huge mess.
Time to source some new innards for that big ol motor.
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5.98 @ 123
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1badzx12r
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posted August 07, 2011 01:29 PM
quote:
..Muzzy wont stand behind it I'll bet.
Dave
neither will MTC when their pistons warp
how much roy
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Shane661
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posted August 07, 2011 01:35 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 7 Aug 2011 21:37
Roy, are those JE's? The JE turbo pistons for the Busa were cracking in a similar spot, if I recall. Do a search on Suzukihayabusa.org if that is the case. You don't want the same problem again.
Shane
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Rich
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posted August 07, 2011 01:36 PM
Ouch. At least you thought it was time to freshen it up a bit and found it in the garage instead of at the track.
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wrongway
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posted August 07, 2011 03:41 PM
quote:
Roy, are those JE's? The JE turbo pistons for the Busa were cracking in a similar spot, if I recall. Do a search on Suzukihayabusa.org if that is the case. You don't want the same problem again.
Shane
yes, these are JE . I found even more cracks around the skirts. What pistons are are recommend these days?
Roy
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wrongway
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posted August 07, 2011 03:45 PM
quote:
Roy, how many miles, runs, hours on that motor?
Considering what it is I wouldnt expect more than 1 or 2 seasons out of them motor kits, especially with Nitrous, and being antest mule and all.
IMO its held together well!
With the longer stroke and bigger slugs, did you reduce the rev limiter?
I was happy that it did stay together ... and I did have 2 seasons on it with stock revlimiter. I did do some checking around and the busa have a longer stroke and turn the same or more rpm. This does look like an issue with the material , not abuse.
Roy
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wrongway
Pro
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posted August 07, 2011 03:49 PM
quote:
To be fair, I wouldnt expect the manufacture to stand behind motor component that were designed and used to test the limits of metallurgy, and physics.
Comonent used for racing purposes, with exteneded piston speeds, less piston stability ( 2rings), less piston dwell, and increased rod angles, with exteneded use near the rev limiter for LSR, and with unknown fuel, or ignition timing settings, in addition to unknown rpm limits, and the use of nitrous oxide.
Muzzy doesnt machine those pistons either, or provide the slugs they were machined from.
I think Roy is a great guy, brings much knowledge to the table, and in no way am I slandering him at all. Im just being reasonable with the expectations to warantee a product used in unkown , and in testing environments.
Peace out.
I was not complaining about a waranty .... the warranty with race car parts ends when you install the part. I dont see why the motorcycle business would be any different. But a company only stays in business if the parts meet customer expectations.
this was a heads up to anyone running these pistons to not skip a refresh ... I hope no one is running them on the street.
Roy
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Shane661
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posted August 07, 2011 05:03 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 8 Aug 2011 01:07
quote:
quote:
Roy, are those JE's? The JE turbo pistons for the Busa were cracking in a similar spot, if I recall. Do a search on Suzukihayabusa.org if that is the case. You don't want the same problem again.
Shane
yes, these are JE . I found even more cracks around the skirts. What pistons are are recommend these days?
Roy
CP's seem to have a good rep. Piston speeds can be much higher on a big stroke Busa, but the rods are longer. Still, I would check on those turbo JE's I was talking about, because it might point to something with the material, I can't recall.
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LandspeedLarry
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posted August 07, 2011 08:15 PM
Shane is correct, JE Busa turbo pistons about three years ago had similar problems. Surprisingly there were very few failures just the same telltale cracks. Design or metallurgy? probably both. Current JE's have had no problems but CP makes a very good piston. Roy, you got your $$$ worth. LSL
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wrongway
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posted August 08, 2011 03:15 PM
well, calling JE powersports is a bit frustrating ...on hold for 15 minutes, then to voice mail. and they don't answer emails either :-( .. sent one 2 weeks ago with no reply.
I am not looking for waranty , just some answers and maybe replacement pistons ....
On the other hand , I got an immediate reply from Wossner Pistons ....
I guess I will find out who wants what ever little business I have .
Roy
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gilberjj
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posted August 10, 2011 08:54 PM
I was going to suggest wossner. I've heard great things About them.
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06redzx14
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posted August 11, 2011 05:27 AM
Can we get some pics of the crank. Interested to see how it held up.
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1badzx12r
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posted August 11, 2011 07:13 AM
i'd be will to bet roy uses rotella oil and got a perfect crank.. hehe
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wrongway
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posted August 11, 2011 02:04 PM
yep , rotella 15-40 and a perfect crank
main bearings looked new ,,, but rod bearing looked beat up
Roy
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Shane661
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posted August 12, 2011 08:21 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 12 Aug 2011 16:22
That looks ugly, Roy. This seems to be a sore spot with the 14, and even those with modified oiling systems are having problems.
If your setup is entirely oem, including the pan, I am not sure what the solution is. The oem setup seems to have the best track record as far as I know?
Shane
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06redzx14
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posted August 12, 2011 09:32 AM
Has anyone had any results with the high volume gear? I'm in the decision stage on stock stroke or stroker for my next build.
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wrongway
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posted August 12, 2011 10:09 AM
quote:
That looks ugly, Roy. This seems to be a sore spot with the 14, and even those with modified oiling systems are having problems.
If your setup is entirely oem, including the pan, I am not sure what the solution is. The oem setup seems to have the best track record as far as I know?
Shane
entire oil system is stock . the damage to the pistons and the bearings may be due to the big nitrous shots and detonation. I did have electrodes melted once.
JE says that they haven't had any problems with pistons cracking , and maybe heat caused some change in the aluminum that resulted in the crackling... Not sure what the real answer is...
maybe all the damage seen on disassembly ( wrist pin gaulling , beat up rod bearing and cracked pistons) was cause by a few poorly setup nitrous runs ?
I guess I wont know till I make some passes on the freshened up motor with the good nitrous setup I now have.
Roy
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