1badzx12r
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posted September 05, 2011 12:44 PM
quote:
if I am going to go for perfection on this.
The SM is calling for liquid gasket which will cost $64 from Kawasaki. Any suggestions for a less expensive product that worlks just as well?
not if your going for perfection .. i use old gaskets and i just paint them .. but i ain't looking for perfection ..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
  
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Rook
Pro
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posted September 05, 2011 09:20 PM
lol , paint them, hey? Well, I do have a leak from the current gasket and I have a strong hunch that simply tightening down the head cover bolts to spec would stop it. The bolts were not very tight at all. BUT--maybe I will go between the two extremes of paint and Kawi gasket sealant. Maybe I will just get some ordinary gasket sealant and a new gasket--just so that if it leaks again, I know it is not the old parts. Plus, there are some parts like the crankshaft cover that have no gasket and they need some kind of sealant. Thanks.
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Rook
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posted September 22, 2011 08:47 PM
the shims are in and the lifters are back in on top of them. I pre-oiled the stuff up a bit before putting it back. Ready to put cam shafts back in now. Before removing the camshafts, I marked the exact chain link to the exact tooth on both timing sprockets with some paint. Can I just line the paint marks back up so the timing chain and sprockets are the same as before...........or did you tell me I would need to do something extra with timing when reinstalling the cam shafts?
There is a white mark on the intake timing sprocket that lines up with a mark on the chain. Also, I painted a black mark on the chain and the exhaust timing sprocket.
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1badzx12r
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posted September 23, 2011 04:23 AM
 Edited By: 1badzx12r on 23 Sep 2011 12:25
i always do my cams to KHI service manual specs when installing them .. the valve cover leak can be stop by putting a thin washer under the bolt . the bolts even tight will bottom out on the shoulder and still let it leak in some cases.. always roll your engine around several times by hand to check everything re-aligns and recheck your valves clearance before putting all the covers on ..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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kneedragon1962
Novice Class
Posts: 36
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posted September 23, 2011 04:48 AM
What a cliff hanger! All that reading and the story's not over...
Rook, I just want to say thank you, and all the guys helping you, because this is very educational.
I'm no mechanic, but like 1badzx12r, I'd like to see the sump come off. Even if you don't drop the bearing caps, at least clean the oil pickup screen and take some photos of the inside of the sump, before you clean it. Then somebody who knows his stuff - like 1bad - might be able to make an educated guess based on the quantity and size and amount of metal debris in there, as to whether the bearings will have to be changed.
It would be a shame to do all this work and then have the thing grenade.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDo_FIWeDNk
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Rook
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posted September 23, 2011 02:24 PM
It would be a shame to do all this work and then have the thing grenade.
That would kind suck, wouldn't it. hahaha especially because I would be wondering if it wuld have been just fine had I never messed with it.
I'm no mechanic, but like 1badzx12r, I'd like to see the sump come off.
Maybe over winter. It's getting awful close to the end of my riding season and I don't think I put much more than 2000 miles on the bike. I would hate to have the roads get salted up before I get a few good rides in for this year.
Sure thing Kneedragon. I feel the same. I am extremely grateful for all the free advice i have gotten, especially from 1bad who has graciously replied to all my questions.
i always do my cams to KHI service manual specs when installing them .
I can do that. looks very clear, pp 5-17 through 5-21. I think I will also test cap wear, run out and cam wear as recomended by the SM.
the valve cover leak can be stop by putting a thin washer under the bolt . the bolts even tight will bottom out on the shoulder and still let it leak in some cases.. My head cover bolts were only a bit more than than finger tight. I'm sure they were nowhere near hitting the bottom of the threads, I did get a new gasketand some very expensive engine sealant so I will have to decide whether to keep the gasket for the next valve clearance servivice or use it now.
always roll your engine around several times by hand to check everything re-aligns and recheck your valves clearance before putting all the covers on .. definitely
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Rook
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posted September 23, 2011 02:50 PM
The photo above shows the timing sprockets at cylinder #1 TDC.
The engine has not moved from #1 TDC since before I took the cam shafts out.
The cam chain and the timing sprockets are marked with paint. As long as the paint marks on the sprockets and chain line up as they did before disassembly, everything will go back togethet correctly right?
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1badzx12r
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posted September 26, 2011 09:22 AM
it looks right in the pic
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kaw now
Expert Class
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posted September 26, 2011 10:24 AM
Rook quote "My head cover bolts were only a bit more than than finger tight. I'm sure they were nowhere near hitting the bottom of the threads"
That would be a wrong assumption, what everyone is saying is the bolt is a shoulder bolt that the shoulder area is too long and does not squish the gasket and you can't correct that with torque. If the old gasket is soft pliable and not cracked or broken I would reuse it. Either way washers is what's needed to fix the leak just get some put them on and forget about it. You don't need sealant for anything I know of as its a single plane and no seams.
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Rook
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posted October 17, 2011 02:19 PM
Thanks 1bad. I have the Camshafts back in and I was able to find the correct tightening sequence in the 2010 SM. The 2006 is Does not show the sequence. I am testing the cap wear with Plastigauge.
Thanks, kaw now. Yes I am starting to think it best to just reuse the old gasket which seems to not have been crushed all that much in the first place. Still, seems like the the bolts should have been tight if they were torqued even if they were not squeezing the gasket. I will try torqueing and if that doesn't seem to be squeezing the gasket, I will put some washers under there to subtract from the shoulder length.
Already purchased the fancy engine sealant. guess I can always use it on the timing wheel cover which shopuld have that stuff applied.
Now that so much time has passed and I have not been able to move the engine and I am looking at various pieces of info including my 06 and 2010 SMs which seem to present contradictory instructions on the same procedure..........I'm getting a little scared. Did I do this right? Was I checking the clearances whith the engine at the right position????????
zoiks.
I think I will be dropping a wood dowel down the spark plug holes to make SURE I am at TDC #1 and #4. Goinna be a long time before I ride the 14 yet. Maybe not until next year. : /
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Rook
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posted October 17, 2011 05:23 PM
Edited By: Rook on 18 Oct 2011 01:48
..........I'm getting a little scared. Did I do this right? Was I checking the clearances whith the engine at the right position????????
I think i am worrying about nothing.
Tell me, what does the diagram with the circles and arrows in the upper left above the cylinders/valves diagram represent ??? (i think I know now but just to make sure...)
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kaw now
Expert Class
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posted October 17, 2011 10:15 PM
I think I can answer that one looking at cams from R/H side of bike when arrow representing lobes either facing each other or away. Then check clearances according to 1-4.
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Rook
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posted October 18, 2011 01:29 PM
Yes, kaw now, that is what I initially thought. The arrows point the way the cams point----but what cams??? any time you have 8 cam lobes pointing inward at one another, the other 8 are pointing outward away from one another. So what cams are they talking about?? The cams on the far right, or the cams on the far left (which are opposite)??
This is the source of the confusion I was having. Then another thought occurred to me. Maybe the circles represent the camshaft sprockets (Inlet and Exhaust) and the arrows indicate the timing marks on the sprockets. The horizontal line represents the top of the engine case. If that is the meaning of this little illustration, then the cam lobes at far right would also follow the arrow direction.
How does this sound?
make sense?
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1badzx12r
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posted October 18, 2011 01:54 PM
quote:
This is the source of the confusion I was having. Then another thought occurred to me. Maybe the circles represent the camshaft sprockets (Inlet and Exhaust) and the arrows indicate the timing marks on the sprockets. The horizontal line represents the top of the engine case. If that is the meaning of this little illustration, then the cam lobes at far right would also follow the arrow direction.
?
i think you getting it figured out .. cause that what it means.. and the black dot are the valves you can check when engine is turned to the illustration
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kaw now
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posted October 18, 2011 03:20 PM
Rook that would be #1 at TDC compression stroke in top pic if you think about it. Direction of engine rotation crank pulls cam from opposite side of tensioner, both lobes facing out, 1/2 turn of crank =1/4 turn of cam exh now open and so on.
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Rook
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posted October 18, 2011 04:58 PM
i think you getting it figured out .. cause that what it means..
Rook that would be #1 at TDC compression stroke in top pic if you think about it.
Thanks. I was hoping to hear that. I went back to p2 of this thread and looked at 1bads remarks concerning the pics i had posted of camshafts and camshaft sprockets. Those also follow the diagrams. I'm sure i checked the clearances correctly. i will be rechecking the clearances again anyway. The motor will get turned and I will be able to look at what is happening as much as i want. Problem is now I am not able to move the motor because there are too many parts out and turning it would be asking for trouble.
Another problem is the '06 SM I was using is incorrect. The illustration of the valve clearances to check for #1 TDC shows the camshaft sprocket diagram with arrows pointing out. In this diagram, the valves that are blacked in solid are correct for #1 TDC but they show the wrong direction for timing marks.
There was a helpful person at zx10.net that emailed me a 2010 ZX-14 SM. Looks a little nicer than the 06. More detailed and hopefully they corrected any other mistakes that were in the first edition.
SO, I am going out to put my Plastigauge in and check the cap wear. Also have pics of runout test and lobe wear test. I'll post some pics for fun. No questions. The tests were pretty straightforward. Very little cam lobe wear. I did get some unexpected results on the runout test.
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kaw now
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posted October 18, 2011 05:15 PM
Forget everything I wrote the bottom pic is #1 TDC compression. I now believe it's based on #4 cyl as the example. So set valves using that or really just make sure it's on the base circle and not on any part of the ramp or lobe. I have never used those charts they're made for convenience as in just rotating the engine once.
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Rook
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posted October 18, 2011 06:07 PM
Edited By: Rook on 19 Oct 2011 02:10
^^^^Nope, I don't think it could be. No way. Black dot = closed valve = best point to check clearance.
The bottom pic shows all valves open on cylinder #1, all valves closed (black) on cyl #4. If all the valves are closed, that is definitely the end of the compression stroke. (open valve would = major compression leak). You see in the bottom pic that if the Ex camshaft sprocket turns clockwise, the lobe on the exhaust valve, cylinder #4 (which roughly coincides with the timing mark --the arrow--on the sprocket) will be opening next. This is to expel the combustion gasses that were created immediately after the compression stroke. The Inlet valve on cyl #4 will open after that exhaust valve closes. The whole cycle begins again. We are ready for the next compression now. That's how I see it.
I believe the top pic is #1 TDC. The bottom is #4 TDC. The 2010 SM labels the illustrations as such. Also the direction of cams and camshaft sprocket/timing marks /top of engine case coincide with 1bad's direstions on p2.
I think you are probably right that feeler gauge measuring on any part of the cam except ramp or lobe will yield the actual clearance. This too coincides with what I observed of cam position when I checked them at the specified camshaft sprocket position. The circular (neutral) part of the cam was above the lifter.
However, I am quite certain the bottom pic above is TDC #4. The top pic is TDC #1. You were correct on the first look. not to be a smartass or anything....I am so grateful for all of your comments and 1bad and everyone else. I'm not very experienced with this stuff at all. We are working to change that a little bit. LOL
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BIGZXDADDY
Expert Class
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posted October 19, 2011 08:58 AM
the easiest thing to do is look at the cam lobs. line up the crank mark and if the exhaust and intake lobs on #1 are up and slightly opposed then use the first chart. if #4 lobs are up use the second chart
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"never drive faster than you can see, besides it's all in the reflexes"
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Rook
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posted October 19, 2011 09:22 AM
You mean UP and pointing AWAY from one another....Yes?
Like this on cyl #1? use the first chart for this, Right?
Like this on Cyl #4, use second chart above. Yes?
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kaw now
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posted October 19, 2011 11:15 AM
That's right.
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Rook
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posted October 19, 2011 11:23 PM
Yeah, Inlet has a long wait to open, Exhaust is almost ready to open and let the combustion gas out.
So here's what I've been messing with. Thought I would do the camshaft tests since I had them out.
Runout
Cam Height
Cap Wear
 
Everything is within Standard range for new parts. One of the camshafts is about halfway between Standard and the end of service limit. The other Camshaft has 0 runout which is actually less than standard spec. Must have got a good one.
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