Rook
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posted August 11, 2011 12:36 PM
really the only 1 i would adjust is the .004 intake and wait til next adjustment on the others
That sonds like a good idea. I could wait until next Fall or end of next Summer and do this all again (well, I would not do it ALL again--Tboddies stay on, blanket is gone). I t really sux not being able to ride the bike at the best time of the year.
If it wern't for the expense involved, I would do them all. The cam shaft is prolly the biggest part of the job and it is going to have to come out just to do the .004. Why not take both cam shafts out and do the .007s on the exhaust? I guess I will have to think this one out a bit.
the stock KHI shims adjust .002 increments from what i'm told but i've always used the hot cams brand ..
I was planning on getting Kaw shims. Hub says $11/ OEM shim but they are better than the after market. What could be wrong with after market shims? Less accurate? Do not come in as small of increments?
  
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1badzx12r
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posted August 11, 2011 12:53 PM
quote:
Do not come in as small of increments?
.005 increments is what my hot cam set come in .. so the .004 becomes a .009 ..the .007 become .012
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Rook
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posted August 11, 2011 03:58 PM
 Edited By: Rook on 12 Aug 2011 00:36
 Thanks a million, 1bad for following this thread and keeping me on track. I guess I'll probably only get Kaw shims if I need to go in small increments. I'll check prices. Also, I may be able to swap existing shims around a bit to get all the clearances pretty close to .006 in and .009 ex, the clearances you suggested to be ideal.
I did a valve sync with a cheap pressure gauge least year. Not the most clear to read but seemed to have me in the ballpark. Valve clearance probably changes the Tbody synch, NO? Need a few more tools for that.
Also, you mentioned timing. Will that require any special tools to adjust for the valve clearance change?
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1badzx12r
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posted August 11, 2011 05:00 PM
quote:
Also, you mentioned timing. Will that require any special tools to adjust for the valve clearance change?
no
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entropy
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posted August 11, 2011 09:52 PM
Edited By: entropy on 12 Aug 2011 06:04
Let's be clear here 
Hot Cams shims come in increments of .05mm (.002"), and are marked indicating mm's, 260, 265, 270, etc
that is a shim marked 260 = 2.60mm (.103")
the next thicker Hot Cam shim is marked 265 = 2.65mm (.105")
OEM kawasaki is the same
for ZX12 with 9.45mm diameter shims you can get Honda 450 shims in increments of .001" , e.g. a 262 (.104") would be between the 260 & 265 above
Rook, keep asking questions, best way to learn 
BTW: Hot Cam shims = OEM shims wrt quality.
I just looked up shim prices on MR Cycles site where i used to get my ZX12 shims and they have nearly doubled in price, now discounted price = $7???!!!!! WTF????
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1badzx12r
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posted August 12, 2011 12:44 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 12 Aug 2011 08:53
sorry rook my bad. i sux at math.. thanks carl
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entropy
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posted August 12, 2011 05:39 AM
1bad,
Fergit the math, i applaud yr patience in helping Rook with the most basic of basics.
It's easy to forget we ALL started out where he is now.
He is a shitload more systematic in his journey towards knowledge than I was.
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Rook
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posted August 12, 2011 01:10 PM
" i applaud yr patience in helping Rook with the most basic of basics. "
YEAH thanks again, 1bad and thanks, Karl.. I'm sure I would have discovered the increment available if I would have looked at HotCams shims. Now I'm sure I will. Sounds like they are as good and as accurate and as diverse in size as the OEM shims. From what I have been told, even at $7/shim, that is still cheaper than OEM.
I have not ordered any tools or parts yet. I think I will purchase my micrometer and then start pulling the camshaft(s) out.
Can the shims for the exhaust valves the same thing as the shims for the Intake? If so, I may see if I can save a few$$$ by shifting the shims I have in to other valves instead of buying new shims for all.
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Rook
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posted August 12, 2011 02:19 PM
Will be removing camshafts now. I see the CCsprockets need to come out. I don't understand why the cam chain tensioner needs to be removed but I will pull it anyway. I have an APE manual CCT that I have not yet installed.
Camshaft Removal
• Remove: Cylinder Head Cover (see Cylinder Head Cover Re- moval) DONE
• Crankshaft Sensor Cover Position the crankshaft at #1, 4 piston TDC.
TDC mark [A] for #1, 4 Pistons Timing Mark (crankcase halves mating surface) DONE
• Remove: Camshaft Chain Tensioner (see Camshaft Chain Ten- sioner Removal) Camshaft Cap Bolts [A] Chain Guide Camshaft Caps
• Camshafts [C] Stuff a clean cloth into the chain tunnel to keep any parts from dropping into the crankcase.
•Remove the cam sprocket mounting bolts [A]. •Remove the cam sprocket.
CAUTION
The crankshaft may be turned while the camshafts are removed. Always pull the chain taut while turn- ing the crankshaft. This avoids kinking the chain on the lower (crankshaft) sprocket. A kinked chain could damage both the chain and the sprocket.
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wrongway
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posted August 12, 2011 02:49 PM
quote:
I just looked up shim prices on MR Cycles site where i used to get my ZX12 shims and they have nearly doubled in price, now discounted price = $7???!!!!! WTF????
check Dennis Kirk ,,, the have 5 pack refills for $5.99
Roy
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Rook
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posted August 12, 2011 04:08 PM
Cool! As long as they are accurate. Beyond tat, I don't know what would make a shim any better than the next. They all are going to wear pretty similar, I imagine.
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Rook
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posted August 14, 2011 08:36 PM
I am trying to reinstall the can chain tensioner so I can turn the engine without risking the cam chain kinking and/or valve damage that the SM warns of.
I had the CCT compressed back into the housing with the snap ring on the end securing it in.
The problem is that I cannot get the snap ring to release. The SM says to tap it with a screwdriver. Had the CCT on and off 3x tonight and reloaded it 3x too. No luck getting the snap ring to release.
Any tips?
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1badzx12r
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posted August 15, 2011 03:54 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 15 Aug 2011 12:19
never had an issue of a CCT not releasing. .don't hit on it just push on it thru the top of head with a long skinny screw driver and it will release
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Rook
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posted August 15, 2011 07:26 AM
The cam chain is right in front ofthe CCT pushrod. Is the trick to push against the back run of the cam chain so it presses the pushrod in and releases it?
I hate to jam on a sharp harp screwdriver. Maybe a long piece of hardwood or plastic--if either of those would be stiff enough to not bend or break.
I have an APE CCT sitting here. Maybe I will just install that. I would like to know that I can get the OEM back in there if I want. It really is a pretty cool idea the way it automatically adjusts but has the stopper wire so it can not open too much. Believe it or not, it weighs a couple 10th of an ounce less than the APE.
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1badzx12r
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posted August 15, 2011 07:42 AM
with the CCT installed and lock all the way in you run some kind of thin object into the head between the cam sprockets and place it where the CCT is located and push ..presto it springs forward... you can used the manual ..i measure the travel of the cam chain guide but inserting a ratchet handle into the CCT hole and pressing against the cam chain and measure the length ..then i find that measurement on the manual CCT and install
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Rook
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posted August 15, 2011 08:46 AM
YA, I have sprung it by hand and it does not take a lot of pressure. Still, that cam chain lays between it and the object you use to push it with. I guess I have to try this afresh. I had a shitty day at work yesterday and prolly did not give this a fair try.
Great suggestion on finding the manual CCT length. Would you back the adjustment up 1/4 turn on the screw (per Schnitz instructions) or just tighten the locknut down where the adjuster makes contact with the chain?
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Rook
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posted August 15, 2011 09:08 AM
The reason I am putting the CCT back in at this point is that I wanted to turn the engine ahead 360 degrees to get the timing marks on the cam chain sprockets in view.
The SM warns NOT to turn crankshaft without the cam chain tensioner in. I can see how that would be a problem for running the motor but just to turn it by hand, could I leave the CCT out?
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Rook
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posted August 15, 2011 10:00 AM
GOT IT, 1bad. Peering down in there, you push on the inside of the back run of the can chain right at the point where the cam chain runs over the tensioner pushrod.
NO need to tap. Just get the screwdriver blade set and push firmly. I gave it a couple quick hard pumps and I heard the pushrod ratchet out.
I'm still curious, "The SM warns NOT to turn crankshaft without the cam chain tensioner in. I can see how that would be a problem for running the motor but just to turn it by hand, could I leave the CCT out? "
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1badzx12r
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posted August 15, 2011 10:36 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 15 Aug 2011 18:45
the chain will jump over the cam sprockets without the CCT in place .. you will find this out when you start to tighten the cam caps when installing the cams .. as you tighten down the cams will want to roll and the chain has slack.. on the 08 's i have to hold 1 finger in between the cam sprockets on the chain as i tighten the caps until i get the slack taken out by shoveing my rachet handle into the CCT hole to take up the slack .. then i install CCT and TQ caps to specs..the 08 cams sprockets has no holes in them like the 06 model do to tie strap the chain to the sprocket ...
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1badzx12r
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posted August 15, 2011 10:37 AM
quote:
GOT IT, 1bad. Peering down in there, you push on the inside of the back run of the can chain right at the point where the cam chain runs over the tensioner pushrod.
NO need to tap. Just get the screwdriver blade set and push firmly. I gave it a couple quick hard pumps and I heard the pushrod ratchet out.
]
yes sir thats it
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Rook
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posted August 15, 2011 01:31 PM
quote:
the chain will jump over the cam sprockets without the CCT in place .. you will find this out when you start to tighten the cam caps when installing the cams .. as you tighten down the cams will want to roll and the chain has slack.. on the 08 's i have to hold 1 finger in between the cam sprockets on the chain as i tighten the caps until i get the slack taken out by shoveing my rachet handle into the CCT hole to take up the slack .. then i install CCT and TQ caps to specs..the 08 cams sprockets has no holes in them like the 06 model do to tie strap the chain to the sprocket ...
I'm going to have to refer back to that for reinstalling. I think that is going to be a little tricky. I notice there are special instruction for installing the caps. You are supposed to tighten all the cap screws up evenly so the cam shaft does not bind. I think it would be best to remove the caps in the same way. Except for the first one I removed, I had all of the caps bind a little bit. I have not taken off the chain guide with the last two bolts yet. looks like the the cam shaft is popping up unevenly because I have not taken those last two bolts out on the chain guide (the part that holds down the far right of both cam shafts). What is that ? Is there pressure from the lifters pushing the camshaft up? If so, I would think it best to loosen up all 16 of the cap screws and the 2 the chain guide screws very evenly so the pressure was distributed evenly.
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1badzx12r
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posted August 15, 2011 02:24 PM
the best way is to ..take off the cap with the chain guide 1st .. now you have 4 caps left and can start unbolting them .. undo the intake starting from the cam chain side .you can do each bolt a little at a time but they will bind on the dowel pins before they are totally free.. leave the bolts in them as you lift the caps so you can watch not to lose the dowel pins into the head. leave your spark plugs in or cover the holes..
when you go back together start with the guide cap 1st because it has a slot for the cams to ride in .. then install the other 4 caps then start tightening from the guide cap out to the end towards #1 cylinder .. start with exhaust cam 1st and makle sure chain is tight with no slack installed on exhaust side ....its all in the service manual on topend
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Rook
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posted August 15, 2011 05:25 PM
Edited By: Rook on 16 Aug 2011 01:27
the best way is to ..take off the cap with the chain guide 1st ..
lol--Yeah, figured that out. I had to put the two right caps back on to hold the c shafts down. No way that chain guide cap was coming off unless I pried on it which I was not about to do. Amazing how easy it came off once the c shafts were pulled back in line.
. undo the intake starting from the cam chain side .you can do each bolt a little at a time but they will bind on the dowel pins before they are totally free..
As you suggest, seems best to remove the caps right to left, starting with the chain guide cap. The far left hold the cam in place so the rest should bind a lot less because the c shaft will not be lifting up under them. Only trouble is when you get to the far left, you have all the force of the cam shaft lifting up on that one cap. i guess all you can do is try to unbolt it as evenly as you can. yeah, seems like they like to bind on the dowel pins even when you are careful.
. leave the bolts in them as you lift the caps so you can watch not to lose the dowel pins into the head. leave your spark plugs in or cover the holes..
another great suggestion. Sometimes the dowel pin will stick in the cap. Better to see that right away. I had one pin fall out on the floor.
thanks ; >}
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Rook
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posted August 15, 2011 06:34 PM
SM simply says:
• Remove: Camshaft Chain Tensioner (see Camshaft Chain Ten- sioner Removal) Camshaft Cap Bolts [A] Chain Guide Camshaft Caps
• Camshafts [C] Stuff a clean cloth into the chain tunnel to keep any parts from dropping into the crankcase.
•Remove the cam sprocket mounting bolts [A].
•Remove the cam sprocket.
I need to remove the cam shaft sprocket before the cam shaft comes out, right? (if so, the SM does not explain the procedure in the correct order)
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1badzx12r
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posted August 15, 2011 07:04 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 16 Aug 2011 03:05
quote:
I need to remove the cam shaft sprocket before the cam shaft comes out, right?
no the cams will come out with sprockets attached after all cam caps are removed.. lift up on far left #1 cylinder side and slide the chain off at the same time as you lift the opposite end up
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