NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted March 08, 2011 08:52 AM
what advantage would a 2x2 have over a 2x4 other than maybe a little longer bearing life?
Can you get all 3 rings and stoke rods with a 2mm stroke?
  
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted March 08, 2011 09:00 AM
As far as I know, 2 x 2 uses stock length rods and has all 3 rings; at least the Ace Performance one's do.
You could call Sal to confirm, but I am pretty sure of this.
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smokinZX14
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Posts: 10197
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posted March 08, 2011 12:34 PM
I think Sal is using a 1 mm shorter rod ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted March 08, 2011 12:54 PM
quote:
What ever size engine you go with... one of the head and cam packages from Competition CNC will get you on average .164 hp per cc of engine displacement with a zx14/busa/ or zx12.
Once you know the hp/displacement you want then we will size the porting to get you the most power for your combo and usage.
We offer 47mm and 48mm throttle bodies with our head and cam packages. A stock zx14 picks up about 6-7 hp from the 47's and built large cc engines pick up 2-3 times that depending on the build.
quote:
How much do you and your zx14 wieght, what is your wheel base, how low is your bike, what is the lowest octane gas you can get for the pump, and what is your gearing? What is his gearing? I had about the same weight disadvantage v/s a very good rider on a zx10 (stock motor with bolt -ons v/s stock motor with bolt-ons)." I made him sell it" (his words not mine). I am tring to see if I can help you get around him without spending $5000. And if your bike is puttting out the most power on the dyno it may not be making the most power it can on the street. If it can be done on stock motor, I think your zx14 will live alot longer.
Competition CNC added to my list of motor vendors. I'm giving myself a month to make this decision, then the motor comes out and gets shipped off.
I weigh 350lbs, bikes probably 500 (Muzzy full exh, lower links set at stock, stock length, lost 12lbs weight in other areas.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted March 08, 2011 12:56 PM
At 350 lbs, I would strongly suggest a turbo...
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ZX14Mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
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posted March 08, 2011 02:21 PM
quote:
I think Sal is using a 1 mm shorter rod ..
You sure about that Smokin?.............would Sal have said it was OK to use stock rods if that was the case?
You could be right, but I think I remember Sal saying the 2X2 had stock length rods and kept the 3 rings like Shane said.
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1badzx12r
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posted March 08, 2011 03:31 PM
quote:
At 350 lbs, I would strongly suggest a turbo...
at 350lbs i'd call jenny ..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted March 08, 2011 04:25 PM
 Edited By: zxbob on 10 Mar 2011 12:44
Ace Performance's 2x2 1464cc ZX-14 engine uses all 3 piston rings and STOCK length rods.
220rwhp with pump gas and STOCK 44mm throttle bodies with a normal street exhaust and MILD compression (NITROUS FRIENDLY AND STARTS FINE WITH SINGLE STOCK BATTERY!!!!)
A sidewinder exhaust, larger throttle bodies, and race gas would yield 235+rwhp (conservatively) on a bulletproof engine that can be abused like a stock engine at the drags, land speed races, or street.... and can still go parking lot pimping at the local bike night.
The 2x2 engine comes with STREETABLE camshafts that will not cause excessive wear on valve springs, yet still make big power everywhere with a smooth and predictable powerband.
Ace Performance builds race and street engines that LIVE and are designed extra tough to stand up against the rigors of repeated abuse in the REAL WORLD, not just the dyno room.
This 2x2 1464cc ZX-14 was road tested against a 209+mph (in the standing mile) 1363cc Ace Performance Hayabusa and the ZX-14 pulled away from it HARD in every gear.... especially from 40-150mph where most races are won or lost.
THE 2x2 IS THE TRUTH!!!
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"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted March 08, 2011 05:16 PM
+++++ TO WHOEVER JUST SENT ME PM's , PLEASE RESEND.... MY WEB BROWSER COULDN'T OPEN THEM AND NOW ITS GONE.
THANKS.
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"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted March 08, 2011 07:23 PM
Sure seems like lots of guys are sold on this Ace Performance company. Yet I'd never heard of them a year ago.
The fervor of Brock's loyalists with the prices high enough over the competitors that either they are simply over priced, or they managed to just do that much better of a job?
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted March 08, 2011 07:31 PM
quote:
quote:
I think Sal is using a 1 mm shorter rod ..
You sure about that Smokin?.............would Sal have said it was OK to use stock rods if that was the case?
You could be right, but I think I remember Sal saying the 2X2 had stock length rods and kept the 3 rings like Shane said.
No i'm not sure that is why i said i THINK .. I do know Ape has 1 mm shorter rods in stock.. They tried to sell me a set awhile back ...
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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IMFASTTOO
Zone Head
Posts: 567
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posted March 08, 2011 09:17 PM
GOOD INFO BIG HP 14S http://www.carpenterracing.com/sbp_zx14.htm
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kaw now
Expert Class
Posts: 446
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posted March 08, 2011 09:56 PM
Edited By: kaw now on 9 Mar 2011 07:37
You should rethink the low boost turbo for a couple reasons. 1 the roads you ride probably vary in altitude and you obviously losep power. Second if you blow up your built motor you lose all your money not so with the turbo also turbo kits plug and play no need to send the engine out. I think a low boost would be fairly mild in the curves just wick it in the straights.
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted March 08, 2011 11:14 PM
I'm with them sticks. I'd go for a stage I turbo kit. Your motor will live a lot longer, and your resale will be higher.
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted March 09, 2011 04:33 AM
A few general recommendations....
Make sure what ever pistons you go with that you use a 3 ring piston for the street.
Dont go over .400" lift on the cams.
Dont go over 13.5 to 1 CR
Dont use shorter than stock rods.
Another good choice is Brian Snyder at Quantum Motor sports. He works with Brock and builds Brocks stuff. They are near each other in Ohio. He built Rickey Gadsons Super sport engine that won the championship in 09. 205 hp zx14 with stock pistons/cams/throttle bodies. Just a pipe on it.
I agree, a turbo would be a good choice for you also.
Good luck with what ever way you go !!
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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THE ICE MAN
Expert Class
Posts: 195
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posted March 09, 2011 10:13 AM
Edited By: zxbob on 10 Mar 2011 03:53
Sal.
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ACE PERFORMANCE.COM
40 Records@ Maxton, Fastest NA
1507cc Busa 223.330 MPH also
Fastest ZX12 N.A.212.846 MPH in
the mile Fastest 1000 750 @ Maxton
& Fastest 600 N.A. in the world.
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CajunBoyz
Zone Head
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posted March 09, 2011 04:29 PM
Daum,
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"Cajun Boyz with Bad Ass Toys"
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted March 10, 2011 03:56 AM
quote:
A few general recommendations....
Make sure what ever pistons you go with that you use a 3 ring piston for the street.
Dont go over .400" lift on the cams.
Dont go over 13.5 to 1 CR
Dont use shorter than stock rods.
.
Following this would limit the14 5to a 2mm stroke, right?
Is this just for street builds?
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IMFASTTOO
Zone Head
Posts: 567
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posted March 10, 2011 07:08 AM
CARPENTER RACING can do a drive in drive out dynotuned if you ship the bike and they will make the most power
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CraigChrist
Pro
BAWLS
Posts: 1043
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posted March 10, 2011 07:20 AM
because he obviously needs his bike tuned at carpenter so that he can go ride in the mountains in the pacific north west...
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60ft-------1.42
1/8th------5.97
mph-------119
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted March 10, 2011 09:31 AM
Another option would be to go with a High RPM +2mm overbore piston, larger cams, ported cylinder head and throttle bodies. Throw a simple bolt-on dry nitrous kit set up for a 30 shot and you could have a super safe 215+rwhp on pump gas and spray it to a 245-250rwhp when needed on the straights.
The power of a low boost turbo anytime you need it at pennies on the dollar compared to a turbo, and a super safe 215+rwhp built motor at all times... Plenty enough to stay ahead of those skinnies on piped/tuned literbikes.
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted March 10, 2011 12:01 PM
A little perspective from a "skinny".
I raced a BIG guy on a turbo Busa while I was on my Nitrous ZX12. (RIP Vikel) I had the typical pipe/pc3/gear/air filter and small 30-40 dry shot of nitrous.
He was HUGE....380 lbs....he had a Turbo Busa and was convinced he would beat me...Phantom remembers this guy from labusas a while ago.
Anyways, I meet up with the guy, he said he weighed about 2x as much as me....when really it was about 3x as much as me!!!
First run he wanted me to run him NO SPRAY!!!! I agreed and from 4000 rpms in 6th gear 70 mph....we roll it....and I slowly float away! I was in disbelief!! He was having turbo issues too so that made things worst.
A couple of times...same thing...I'd float away.
In fairness I made him run me while I sprayed...pointless you may say but I deserved the opportunity since I granted him the n/a runs. Sprayed through 6th and looked back, about 1 football field between us.
Reason I'm bringing this up is that your weight hurts you more than you may think. You suffer a HUGE aero penalty too.
If you want to go turbo make sure its done right and that you have some understanding of how it works.
If you want turnkey simplicity of n/a power I'd get the motor work done over at Ace Performance. You should be pretty even with the skinny on the literbike....if not a small dry shot will do it.
Good luck,
A.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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