EL Phantom
Novice Class
Posts: 42
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posted January 27, 2011 01:53 AM
Clutch problem
just finished my winter build up, only have 1 problem.
The clutch does not engage, i have bleeded the lines.
also the pin in the clutch center on the right side does not go in all the way,
the clutch lever has no pressure on it
have to say that this happened after i have installed the stage 2 lock up clutch, the clutch lever was really to hard.
On which i have dismounted the lock up clutch to see what the problem was
what can be the problem?
please help me out
thanks
____________
QBP Finest
ZX14 '08 model dragbike
ZX14 '10 model streetbike
ZX10 '09 model streetbike
  
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Hellmutt
Needs a job
Posts: 2013
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posted January 27, 2011 06:23 AM
Possibly the clutch master cylinder? Or maybe the actuator? Not sure myself, but sounds like it's got to be in the hydraulic part of the system to me..........can you post up some pics of the assembly process? Or did you not take any photo's of the progress?
Someone else here must have some better input than my dumbass 
____________
British flying couch with endtables and an orange thumper
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06redzx14
Pro
Posts: 1022
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posted January 27, 2011 06:28 AM
 Edited By: 06redzx14 on 27 Jan 2011 14:28
did you make sure the push rod was in the middle of the pressure plate? and that the last fiber was offset
____________
06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted January 27, 2011 06:48 AM
quote:
Someone else here must have some better input than my dumbass
yeah ..read the manual per instructions .
or get someone that knows what they are doing ..
cause an incorrectly installed pressure plate results into a bad thing
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Edgecrusher
Expert Class
Posts: 256
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posted January 27, 2011 06:57 AM
man, I hate clutch issues, hope someone can help you, have you measured the stack height? just an idea, I have no idea what's involved in the mod you did.
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EL Phantom
Novice Class
Posts: 42
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posted January 27, 2011 07:14 AM
quote:
quote:
Someone else here must have some better input than my dumbass
yeah ..read the manual per instructions .
or get someone that knows what they are doing ..
cause an incorrectly installed pressure plate results into a bad thing
Yeah you are right my friend i didnt read any instructions and certainly do not know what i am doing.
thanks for your wise advise it seems you have tons of experience
untill you have something to do please read the manual for me and let me know
____________
QBP Finest
ZX14 '08 model dragbike
ZX14 '10 model streetbike
ZX10 '09 model streetbike
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Edgecrusher
Expert Class
Posts: 256
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posted January 27, 2011 07:18 AM
unfortunately, sarcasm is synonymous with help around here some times.lol
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Hellmutt
Needs a job
Posts: 2013
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posted January 27, 2011 07:25 AM
**I copied and pasted this right out of my service manual - but it's for an OEM clutch assembly - still might help you a bit in reassembly**
Clutch Installation
•Install the thrust washer [A] by facing its chamfered side
towards the crankcase.
•Align the teeth of the clutch housing gears by the gear
setting screw [A].
○Install the clutch housing so that the hole position forward
of the engine.
Special Tool - Clutch Gear Setting Screw: 57001-1671
•Install:
Clutch Housing
Needle Bearing
Sleeve
Washer [A]
○Apply engine oil to the needle bearing and the sleeve before
installation.
•Install the clutch hub and two washers [A].
○The outside washer has the OUT SIDE mark .
•Replace the clutch hub nut with a new one. •Holding the clutch hub, tighten the clutch hub nut with the
torque wrench.
Special Tool - Clutch Holder: 57001-1243
Torque - Clutch Hub Nut: 135 N•m (14 kgf•m, 100 ft•lb)
•Install the spring seat [A], spring , friction plates [C] [D]
[E] and steel plates [F] as shown.
NOTE
○The inside diameter of first friction plates are larger
than the others because the spring seat and spring are
equipped to decrease the judder noise as shown.
Clutch Hub [G]
CAUTION If new dry friction plates and steel plates are installed,
apply engine oil to the surfaces of each
plate to avoid clutch plate seizure.
○Install outer-end friction plate, that has the large lining
blocks [A] among others.
○Install the last friction plate [A] fitting the tangs in the
grooves in the housing as shown.
•Applymolybdenum disulfide grease [M] to the outside surface
of the pusher [A], then install the pusher into the drive
shaft.
•Install the spring, and tighten the clutch spring bolts
evenly.
Torque - Clutch Spring Bolts: 8.8 N•m (0.90 kgf•m, 78 in•lb)
Clutch Plate Assembly Inspection •Inspect the friction plate thickness (see Clutch Plate,
Wear, Damage Inspection). •Measure the length [A] of the clutch plate assembly as
shown.
○Assemble:
Clutch Hub
Spring Seat [C]
Spring [D]
Friction Plates [E] [F] [G]
Steel Plates [H]
Spring Plate [J]
Springs [K]
Spring Bolts [L]
Torque - Clutch Spring Bolts: 8.8 N•m (0.90 kgf•m, 78 in•lb)
Clutch Plate Assembly Length
Standard: 53.52 ∼54.52 mm (2.11 ∼2.15 in.)
If the length is not within the specified range, adjust the
length (see Clutch Plate Assembly Adjustment).
Clutch Plate Assembly Adjustment •Inspect the clutch plate assembly length, and then replace the steel plate(s) which brings the length within the specified range.
○Remove:
Spring Bolts
Springs
Spring Plate
Clutch Plates
○Replace the following steel plate(s).
Part No. Thickness
13089-0019 2.3 mm (0.091 in.)
13089-0018 2.6 mm (0.102 in.) (STD)
13089-0020 2.9 mm (0.114 in.)
NOTE ○Do not use the steel plate of 2.9 mm (0.114 in.) and 2.3
mm (0.091 in.) thickness at the same time.
•Install the removed parts, and inspect the clutch plate assembly
length.
Torque - Clutch Spring Bolts: 8.8 N•m (0.90 kgf•m, 78 in•lb)
Clutch Plate, Wear, Damage Inspection
•Visually inspect the friction and steel plates for signs of
seizure, overheating (discoloration), or uneven wear. •Measure the thickness of each friction plate [A] at several
points.
If any plates show signs of damage, or if they have worn
past the service limit, replace them with new ones.
Friction Plate Thickness (13088-0030, 13088-0031)
Standard: 2.92 ∼3.08 mm (0.115 ∼0.121 in.)
Service Limit: 2.7 mm (0.106 in.)
Friction Plate Thickness (13088-0032)
Standard: 3.72 ∼3.88 mm (0.146 ∼0.153 in.)
Service Limit: 3.5 mm (0.138 in.)
Clutch Plate Warp Inspection
•Place each friction plate or steel plate on a surface plate
and measure the gap between the surface plate [A] and
each friction plate or steel plate with a thickness gauge
[C]. The gap is the amount of friction or steel plate warp.
If any plate is warped over the service limit, replace it with
a new one.
Friction and Steel Plate Warp
Standard: 0.15 mm (0.0059 in.) or less
Service Limit: 0.3 mm (0.012 in.)
Friction Plate Warp (only 13088-0030)
Standard: 0.2 mm (0.008 in.) or less
Service Limit: 0.3 mm (0.012 in.)
Clutch Spring Free Length Measurement
•Measure the free length of the clutch springs [A].
If any spring is shorter than the service limit, it must be
replaced.
Clutch Spring Free Length
Standard: 65.0 mm (2.56 in.)
Service Limit: 62.0 mm (2.44 in.)
-- Hope this helps.........at least somewhat --
____________
British flying couch with endtables and an orange thumper
________________________________________________
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EL Phantom
Novice Class
Posts: 42
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posted January 27, 2011 07:41 AM
Edited By: EL Phantom on 27 Jan 2011 15:42
thanks Hellmut,
but the stage 2 lock up clutch is nothing more than a new pressure plate and addditional plate with 5 arms.
also the cover has been adjusted, so just for the info i have only changed the cover the pressure plate and added the lock up plate.
so the clutch plates or clutch housing never have been taken out.
____________
QBP Finest
ZX14 '08 model dragbike
ZX14 '10 model streetbike
ZX10 '09 model streetbike
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watthecu
Zone Head
PissingContestHere
Posts: 543
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posted January 27, 2011 07:46 AM
quote:
Special Tool - Clutch Gear Setting Screw: 57001-1671
If you had lever at one point and then lost it, there has to be something between push rod end and lever. I would assume you never removed the clutch actuator on the left side of the bike mounted on the sprocket cover. I would think up to that point we are in no need of some sort of bleeding (yet).
Did it come with a special tool to set the screw? Even with a fucked up stack, you will still have lever, right? So there is the adjusting pin is either pushed up against it and you feel no joy or like it started out, you have those washers facing out and all that? Are we stacked out so much we are hanging the pressure plate hung on the outer basket and not keyed inside the basket?
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Hellmutt
Needs a job
Posts: 2013
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posted January 27, 2011 07:51 AM
quote:
thanks Hellmut,
but the stage 2 lock up clutch is nothing more than a new pressure plate and addditional plate with 5 arms.
also the cover has been adjusted, so just for the info i have only changed the cover the pressure plate and added the lock up plate.
so the clutch plates or clutch housing never have been taken out.
Ah, I see........never done one, so wasn't sure what was involved........well, maybe it was how you bled the system and now air has intruded? A bubble can really screw ya on a hydro setup
____________
British flying couch with endtables and an orange thumper
________________________________________________
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Edgecrusher
Expert Class
Posts: 256
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posted January 27, 2011 07:55 AM
Is that extra lockup plate supposed to be added or is it supposed to be replacing. I would bet it's supposed to replace that top friction plate or whatever is next after the pressure plate. Increasing the thickness of the stack will change where the clutch actuation mechanism starts pulling or pushing and possibly won't engage fully or give you a hard lever. I had stack height problems with my last bike, that's how I found this out.
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Hellmutt
Needs a job
Posts: 2013
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posted January 27, 2011 08:02 AM
Edited By: Hellmutt on 27 Jan 2011 16:04
I'd think that if his stack height was too high ( extra plate or disc ) that the clutch wouldn't DISengage........he's complaining that the clutch won't engage and no lever ( which made me think it was a hydraulic isse ) -- he may have left too many out and has too little stack height letting the actuator rod runout all the way without spreading the clutch? idk, just trying to think "logically" considering his info
____________
British flying couch with endtables and an orange thumper
________________________________________________
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Edgecrusher
Expert Class
Posts: 256
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posted January 27, 2011 08:19 AM
sorry my bad, I was picturing engaging meaning movement in the clutch not the transmission. I still think there's something off with the height since that's the only thing he has changed. But gods know I've been wrong on many occasions. 
Too bad he doesn't have smarter people trying to help. lol
But I think your right too, Hellmut.
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Hellmutt
Needs a job
Posts: 2013
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posted January 27, 2011 08:30 AM
Never know man, we could both be wrong!! LOL 
____________
British flying couch with endtables and an orange thumper
________________________________________________
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Edgecrusher
Expert Class
Posts: 256
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posted January 27, 2011 09:42 AM
I hope we find out.
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted January 27, 2011 10:48 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 27 Jan 2011 18:52
ok partner did you put a spacer plate on with that gen 2 clutch . did you make sure your springs aren't bottoming out . did you make sure you mated the pressure plate to the clutch plate .. it can mis- align if you don't push the push rod back and get free travel for the pressure plate to click into spot.. and keep pressure on it while you install the springs and gen 2 clutch .. then with all clutch parts installed and covers off test to see if its working .. than put spacer plate and cover on ..
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Hellmutt
Needs a job
Posts: 2013
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posted January 27, 2011 10:54 AM
Doh!! You said "gen2"!!!!! OMG, OMG, OMG!!!!
____________
British flying couch with endtables and an orange thumper
________________________________________________
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LeonidasZX14
Pro
Posts: 1277
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posted January 27, 2011 03:01 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Someone else here must have some better input than my dumbass
yeah ..read the manual per instructions .
or get someone that knows what they are doing ..
cause an incorrectly installed pressure plate results into a bad thing
Yeah you are right my friend i didnt read any instructions and certainly do not know what i am doing.
thanks for your wise advise it seems you have tons of experience
untill you have something to do please read the manual for me and let me know
Wow! It did not take long for him to figure out that you were a complete and utter tool...LMAO
____________
09' ZX14
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted January 27, 2011 04:28 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 28 Jan 2011 00:35
yeah but at least i can install my own clutch .
and nooby is there anything you can do but run your mouth
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted January 27, 2011 04:29 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 28 Jan 2011 00:33
quote:
Doh!! You said "gen2"!!!!! OMG, OMG, OMG!!!!
i call 2 stage gen 2 being single stage is a gen 1 to me .. my bad
then there be sliders and convertables ..
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Edgecrusher
Expert Class
Posts: 256
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posted January 28, 2011 04:43 AM
Don't doubt 1sad, he has never had to learn anything the hard way because he was born unto this world with his all knowing wisdom. He has no pity for us mere mortals who stumble upon problems from time to time.lol
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EL Phantom
Novice Class
Posts: 42
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posted January 28, 2011 05:58 AM
Edited By: EL Phantom on 28 Jan 2011 14:44
1badzx12r what is your problem man?
you are just a fool to give such answers my friend, just checked the forum and it seems i am not the only one who has a problem with your attitude.
get a boyfriend to get you trough the day, there is really nobody waiting on such bitch ass dumb answers.
you smart stupid fuck
and i see you need a job - but you can install your own clutch
hahahahahahhaha
____________
QBP Finest
ZX14 '08 model dragbike
ZX14 '10 model streetbike
ZX10 '09 model streetbike
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Hellmutt
Needs a job
Posts: 2013
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posted January 28, 2011 06:12 AM
Oh damn!!! Gettin' called out by a new guy...........woooohoooo!! It's on!
This thread may end up in the Smackhouse yet
____________
British flying couch with endtables and an orange thumper
________________________________________________
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted January 28, 2011 06:12 AM
quote:
1badzx12r what is your problem man?
i don't have a problem my clutch works fine .. i've got a manual in PDF that is a free down load in english on this forum ..
maybe you should sell your zx14 before it implodes on you ..
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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