Dale
Novice Class
Posts: 92
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posted May 03, 2011 07:57 PM
Looking Good! Curious how you wired up the gm map sensor?
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2007 Kawasaki Ninja ZX-14 Special Edition Turbocharged
  
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gilberjj
Needs a job
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posted May 04, 2011 06:14 AM
 Edited By: gilberjj on 4 May 2011 14:15
I got the power from the TPS. Ground.... just some random ground, and the third wire goes to the PCV.
Edit: the input for the PCV is the Analog input, and if my memory serves me correctly, that's the 2nd from the outside.
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Dale
Novice Class
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posted May 04, 2011 10:52 AM
Is this done to add more fuel or another purpose?
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2007 Kawasaki Ninja ZX-14 Special Edition Turbocharged
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gilberjj
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posted May 04, 2011 12:20 PM
quote:
Is this done to add more fuel or another purpose?
By adding the GM 3 bar (external map sensor), I can make a single fuel map, and the map will be altered based on how much boost the bike is seeing. That way I can turn the boost up and down based on track conditions, weather, etc, and I won't have to use a different map. The map will automatically be adjusted. That's the idea behind it.
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gilberjj
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posted May 04, 2011 10:13 PM
First the good news. The bike put down a whole lot more than I thought it would considering I lowered the compression.
252.45 whp at 6 psi!!!!
The bad news. It won't run for shit under 5.5k rpms. The tuner thinks my valves are too tight because the vacuum is bouncing around like crazy, and it's completely untuneable. It can't be a fueling issue because he took out fuel, all the way to -90%, and added 10% fuel all the way up to +50% and it just wouldn't get any better. Above 6k, the tuner thinks there's enough velocity that it pushes the air in instead of pulsating. Seems to make sense to me. He said a Chev 350 had the same symptoms, they loosened the valves, and it would hold steady vacuum and made another 25whp (went from 350whp to 375whp).
Also bad news, I don't have enough fuel on e85 to go over 6 psi. The tps and injector duty cycle were both at 100%, and the fuel pressure was dropping. I still had 11.6:1 a/f ratio, but I couldn't go any higher. I'm taking my bike to the stealership for them to do a valve adjustment, and I'll take it back to the dyno with 112 octane race fuel instead of e85.
I can't believe how much power it made for just 6 psi, plus it's not running 100%.... Cool, but still a PITA!
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gilberjj
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posted May 04, 2011 10:35 PM
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01smokes
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posted May 04, 2011 10:54 PM
Are you sure them injectors are as big as they say they are?
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gilberjj
Needs a job
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posted May 04, 2011 10:57 PM
quote:
Are you sure them injectors are as big as they say they are?
Ya, my fuel pump and or lines aren't keeping up. I don't think it's the injectors after watching my dyno video. The fuel pressure is dropping as the rpms rise during WOT. Anybody want to buy 12 gallons of e85? I'm going to have to run race gas.
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gilberjj
Needs a job
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posted May 04, 2011 10:59 PM
quote:
Are you sure them injectors are as big as they say they are?
They came with a flow chart. All 4 right at 725cc.
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Oz Booster
Expert Class
Posts: 230
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posted May 05, 2011 02:17 AM
Be all worth it when its done 
HP intank pump std filter ??
the 725 should be good to 350+ on e85
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01smokes
Needs a job
Posts: 2243
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posted May 05, 2011 08:02 AM
quote:
quote:
Are you sure them injectors are as big as they say they are?
Ya, my fuel pump and or lines aren't keeping up. I don't think it's the injectors after watching my dyno video. The fuel pressure is dropping as the rpms rise during WOT. Anybody want to buy 12 gallons of e85? I'm going to have to run race gas.
You have a 255 in the tank right. And I didn't think the stock lines would be enough to run e85. But at the power your at Just run pump. Get a good pump gas tune in it and have fun with it get used to the bike than turn it up.
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Big_T112
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted May 05, 2011 08:30 AM
Sorry I could not be of more help on the phone. My 14 setup was so different. I was using a boost ref. rising rate reg. (BEGI 2025). it added 6 lbs. of F.P. for every pound of boost. it was tuned up to 390hp at 18 ish pounds of boost on RC injectors.
My Busa uses a 3 bar GM map sensor and a Hub on the PC3. It uses a modified 3 to 1 BEGI FMU to add F.P. as the boost increases and the map sensor sees it it adds fuel to the map through the hub as boost rises. I also have 62 lb/hr injectors. Your bike made great H.P. I am not sure I buy the titght valve idea but maybe?. sounds to me like something is trying to correct fueling down low. Let us know how it turns out.
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gilberjj
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posted May 05, 2011 09:16 AM
quote:
Sorry I could not be of more help on the phone. My 14 setup was so different. I was using a boost ref. rising rate reg. (BEGI 2025). it added 6 lbs. of F.P. for every pound of boost. it was tuned up to 390hp at 18 ish pounds of boost on RC injectors.
My Busa uses a 3 bar GM map sensor and a Hub on the PC3. It uses a modified 3 to 1 BEGI FMU to add F.P. as the boost increases and the map sensor sees it it adds fuel to the map through the hub as boost rises. I also have 62 lb/hr injectors. Your bike made great H.P. I am not sure I buy the titght valve idea but maybe?. sounds to me like something is trying to correct fueling down low. Let us know how it turns out.
I thought that too, but the reason I believe it's mechanical is because it won't hold a steady vacuum. We had a $400 snap on vacuum/boost gauge hooked up, and it was bouncing around like crazy. That should just hold a steady vacuum right?
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
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posted May 05, 2011 09:23 AM
quote:
I thought that too, but the reason I believe it's mechanical is because it won't hold a steady vacuum. We had a $400 snap on vacuum/boost gauge hooked up, and it was bouncing around like crazy. That should just hold a steady vacuum right?
vacum line off or map sensor seeing boost and going full rich ..
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gilberjj
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posted May 05, 2011 10:41 AM
I'll make sure to check all vacuum and boost connections. I'm quite certain my check valve is installed correctly. Thanks for the ideas though.
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Compton
Zone Head
Posts: 969
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posted May 05, 2011 12:19 PM
i'd start by putting the stock injectors back in and see if it will idle with gasoline. I've seen my fair share of cheaper aftermarket injectors have real poor performance down low.
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b.w.
zx14, little longer, little louder, little lower.
08 Busa, just a little longer and louder and lower than the 14
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Oz Booster
Expert Class
Posts: 230
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posted May 05, 2011 02:13 PM
As per above go back to a std fuel system , no check valves , std pressure and injectors
see if the off boost stuff works like normal, then add back in the parts ,
i can't remember if you fitted adjustable cam sprockets , one of my initial thoughts was the cam timing at high # lobe centres but the torque curve looks fine so the cams must be close to where they need to be .
Your std filter is probably holding back the potential of the pump, the whole history of your bike is in that filter , i would try replacing it or removing it and making a stainless tube fitting to secure the pump, and take the fuel from pump to outlet .then run a easily replacable external filter .
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 06, 2011 10:51 AM
I go with the map sensor check valve also. probably no hooked up at all or wrong.
Mine did the same thing. Would not idle until warm on pump gas.
Autozone has them in the help section.
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted May 06, 2011 11:19 AM
quote:
quote:
Are you sure them injectors are as big as they say they are?
Ya, my fuel pump and or lines aren't keeping up. I don't think it's the injectors after watching my dyno video. The fuel pressure is dropping as the rpms rise during WOT. Anybody want to buy 12 gallons of e85? I'm going to have to run race gas.
I had 660 cc injectors on my stroker running e85 and nitrous.... I upgraded the injectors to 95lb ( 940cc) to go over 250 hp ..... now I have -15 in the PCV5 on the high end instead of +60:-)
I was not logging duty cycle , but I was not able to lower the AFR no matter how much I raised the PCV map.
I am still using the stock fuel line and rail , 255 LPH pump at stock pressure.
Roy
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Dale
Novice Class
Posts: 92
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posted May 06, 2011 05:59 PM
Thank you for answering my questions. Understood what you were saying but I am not a tuner therefore it put a limit on my understanding. Sorry to here about the quirks but I am postive you will be able to figure it out.
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2007 Kawasaki Ninja ZX-14 Special Edition Turbocharged
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gilberjj
Needs a job
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posted May 06, 2011 11:18 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Are you sure them injectors are as big as they say they are?
Ya, my fuel pump and or lines aren't keeping up. I don't think it's the injectors after watching my dyno video. The fuel pressure is dropping as the rpms rise during WOT. Anybody want to buy 12 gallons of e85? I'm going to have to run race gas.
I had 660 cc injectors on my stroker running e85 and nitrous.... I upgraded the injectors to 95lb ( 940cc) to go over 250 hp ..... now I have -15 in the PCV5 on the high end instead of +60:-)
I was not logging duty cycle , but I was not able to lower the AFR no matter how much I raised the PCV map.
I am still using the stock fuel line and rail , 255 LPH pump at stock pressure.
Roy
That's an option, but I can just buy race gas which won't cost me anything in new parts. I don't think I'll be using enough fuel for it to make a difference. I will be selling this bike in the coming months, so my priority is to get it running well without sinking a whole bunch more money into it. I want to ride it this season, and then sell it. My wife and I have a dream of volunteering in the Peace Corps, and we just heard this week that we've been given a nomination for volunteering in Africa leaving in Feb 2012. That isn't for sure, but it's a very good chance that we'll be able to do it.
Ideally I would get the 95 pounders and run the bike on e85. I love alcohol based fuels. They are affordable, and they've been proven over and over to make more power then c16. Additionally, they have another added benefit on our bikes of lowering the intake temps.
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gilberjj
Needs a job
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posted May 06, 2011 11:21 PM
As for what's going on with my bike..... I still don't think it's anything to do with the electronics of the bike. I can't see why an electronic problem would cause an erratic, pulsing vacuum. When I was getting my bike ready to dyno, I easily found all the boost leaks beforehand, because I could feel air "poofing" out of the holes. That's not right. I either retarded the intake cam timing too much, or my valves are too tight. That's what I'll be trying to fix first.
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Big_T112
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted May 07, 2011 06:51 AM
It's a PITA to get them right. When you do don't change anything just ride it. I should get mine back next week. I too will sell mine. My goal is to build a turbo B-King to ride around on.
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dakota9498
Pro
Posts: 1181
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posted May 07, 2011 07:13 AM
quote:
It's a PITA to get them right. When you do don't change anything just ride it. I should get mine back next week. I too will sell mine. My goal is to build a turbo B-King to ride around on.
At least you won't ever see your double on a B-King. Jeremy Teasley was riding one with a small shot of nitrous in Crazy 8's last weekend. When he got inline behind me, that was the first one I had ever seen at the track.
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2008 ZX14
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. ~Mark Twain
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Big_T112
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted May 08, 2011 07:10 AM
Yea. I like them because of the comfort. Plus you can install a turbo kit, 1:1 regulator and reflash the ECU and ride. no PCV, nothing else. With a set of rods and some pistons you can make 350 H.P. like this. Not on pump gas though. About 240 ish on pump. trouble is they are hard to find used. our local dealership still has a new one on the floor and one in the crate and they still want almost $12K for it. I need one used for around $5K. Maybe I can trade my turbo busa for one.
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