RICH CRAFT 1
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posted December 03, 2010 11:05 AM
Would the real rearwheel horsepower please stand up
I use a computer program to measure horsepower to weigh that is ET times weight. It's a poor boy's Dino and for me it seems to be very accurate. Not taking anything away from Dinos but they can't measure ram air at 150 mph. everybody knows that motorcycles can't 330 well with short wheelbase so I used back half Times to measure real horsepower. so let's do the math.
Smokin run 8.765 x 660 pounds just a guess= 194 hp with ram air. But his back half Times was 3.134 so his real horsepower was 207hp with ram air. The real back half time would be 5.453@130.16 and 8.587@158.73= 3.134 back half time
Icarus run 8.82 x 710 pounds = 205 hp with ram air. But his back half Time was 3.116 that equals 226 hp. Which would put him close to the 161 mph.
Chad run 8.34 x 660 just a guess = 225 hp with ram air and a 40 shot. But his back half time was 2.933 which equals 250 hp which would be about right with a 40 shot.
This is actual horsepower it takes to move this much weight down the track for that ET this has nothing to do with STD or SAE numbers. But what ever the conditions are that day they can be corrected back to either. So if it will do the back half Time and if it had the quicker front half time to match that back half Time! The back half time would be even quicker. so this is a conservative estimate.It really comes down to what do you want to believe a electric motor that pulling amps off of your wheel and converting them to horsepower. Or a formula that converts horsepower to wait. I know that there are variables such as headwind and our tailwind. But then I've seen happy dinos and said dinos. There are several places that you can download the formula. I use a race air Pro that has the program in it. I hope this gives you all something to play with over the winter. Ken
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1badzx12r
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posted December 03, 2010 11:28 AM
quote:
Smokin run 8.765 x 660 pounds just a guess= 194 hp with ram air. But his back half Times was 3.134 so his real horsepower was 207hp with ram air. The real back half time would be 5.453@130.16 and 8.587@158.73= 3.134 back half time
8.765 x 660 = 194hp
but
3.134 x ???? = 207hp
sorry ken i'm lost here
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RICH CRAFT 1
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posted December 03, 2010 12:08 PM
To start with you have to have the program that will convert horsepower to weight. Then you put your ET and weight into the program and it will give you horsepower. But because the bikes won't 330 you use your back half Time. Then put more horsepower into the program until it comes up with a back half time that matches yours. This gives you a closer horse power reading because you're taken away the bad takeoff. I hope That helps. Ken
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1badzx12r
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posted December 03, 2010 12:12 PM
 Edited By: 1badzx12r on 3 Dec 2010 21:25
quote:
To start with you have to have the program.
that be my problem
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RICH CRAFT 1
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posted December 03, 2010 12:18 PM
You also have to have a program that will give a eighth mile times and quarter mile times I think Computech systems has a program that you can download probably not free but there may be some out there? Ken
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Lucky14
Pro
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posted December 03, 2010 01:00 PM
Calculator? Did someone say calculator?
Everything you would every want to calculate ..............
Courtesy of Kawa74 in another thread:
http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm
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Lucky14
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posted December 03, 2010 01:12 PM
Sooooooooooo, Ken .........
My 14: Guessing 515 pounds for the bike? No wt. reduction other than exhaust.
Me: 200 suited
Total wt: 715 pounds
Backhalf = 3.27 (backhalf mph 147.94 - 121.07 = 26.87)
HP = ???
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ThunderCK
Junior Member
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posted December 03, 2010 02:52 PM
quote:
quote:
To start with you have to have the program.
that be my problem
uhhhhh, I think you meant "that would be one of my many problems"
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RICH CRAFT 1
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posted December 03, 2010 03:20 PM
Hey lucky, a 3.27 back half Time at 715 pounds would make 195 hp with ram air. You probably made more horsepower than that but if you don't get a good front half it makes the back half suffer so your bike made a minimum of 195 hp with ram air.
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LeonidasZX14
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posted December 03, 2010 04:07 PM
Ken, thanks for the post sir!!!
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01smokes
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posted December 03, 2010 04:09 PM
Edited By: 01smokes on 4 Dec 2010 00:11
725lbs estimate..
stock WB gen2 in Abq, NM
1.62
6.33@116.7
9.71@144.8
3.38 back half with a 28.1mph back half
whats my HP please lol
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Hellmutt
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posted December 03, 2010 07:25 PM
What are you guys doing to get your power to 190's? My 08 ran up to 192.67hp at the wheel with just an SMeg system and pc3 - 114ftlb. Flies in, air filter out, 97octane, good map. So would that be good power for no more than its got on it? Was told those were good #'s - Stocks in the high 160's right? so the exhaust/map give it 25 - 30hp - bought the bike from a Brocks engineer and they mapped it in house, it runs perfect just didnt know what i can do other than lighten it and more suspension upgrades to get more to the ground......I'm a big guy so i've got the the whole bike over-ballast  so i'm wanting some small, consistent, durable power added on.
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Bently
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posted December 03, 2010 08:54 PM
Rich can you figure one for me as well ?
3.092 back half with 29.99 mpg in the back half, with a 720 weight. time was 5.788 128.21and 8.880 158.20 this was a nos pass
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BobC
Pro
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posted December 04, 2010 02:57 AM
Edited By: BobC on 4 Dec 2010 11:03
I don't want to seem negative but I don't see how you can calculate RWHP from ET and rider's weight with any reliability without knowing how the bike's set up, things like wheelbase for example and a whole bunch of other rather important factors which differ from bike to bike. Then there's the rider's skill, we all know that makes a difference. But then, if you already have the real ET, why would you want to know virtual BHP?
If everything else was optimised - it takes this much horsepower to shift this much weight in this much time is a little bit too theoretical. Maybe knowing the best possible ET with a given amount of power would be of interest.
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Stock wheelbase
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Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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bbwatercool
Novice Class
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posted December 04, 2010 07:41 AM
quote:
725lbs estimate..
stock WB gen2 in Abq, NM
1.62
6.33@116.7
9.71@144.8
3.38 back half with a 28.1mph back half
whats my HP please lol
with your weight and mph..it would take roughly 180-185hp depending on the direction the wind was blowing..have you have your bike on the dyno to see what it made on a static test?
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1badzx12r
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posted December 04, 2010 07:44 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 4 Dec 2010 15:45
quote:
quote:
quote:
To start with you have to have the program.
that be my problem
uhhhhh, I think you meant "that would be one of my many problems"
theres your problem "YOU THINK" . now STFU and don't whore up ken's fine thread here ..
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bbwatercool
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posted December 04, 2010 07:44 AM
quote:
Rich can you figure one for me as well ?
3.092 back half with 29.99 mpg in the back half, with a 720 weight. time was 5.788 128.21and 8.880 158.20 this was a nos pass
230-235 rwhp
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RICH CRAFT 1
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posted December 04, 2010 10:14 AM
First of all I would like to thank Lucky for posting the mother of all calculators lol. If you open that site and go down to the 6 one on the left it will allow you to put your numbers in any were in the quarter-mile run but you should put your quarter-mile ET at the bottom then you will see how much time your losing on the front half. For you guys warning your back half ET calculated to hp if you don't do a fairly good on the front half it will make your backhalf look bad! This calculation will never show you more horsepower than you actually have. The ideal is to take your best back half Time and add the correct front half time. Then using that number to calculate horsepower to weight. but if you had a faster front half you would have even faster back half so these horsepower numbers or conservative. Once again ET to weight is a calculation of how much horsepower it takes to get this much weight from point a to point B. it will never show you more horsepower than you actually make. Yes rider and set up will make a difference but it will never show you more horsepower than you actually make. The 14 is a powerful motorcycle and puts up big numbers on the back half. my attempt was to show what kind of horsepower with ram air in the bike is actually making. Ken
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RICH CRAFT 1
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posted December 04, 2010 10:38 AM
quote:
quote:
Rich can you figure one for me as well ?
3.092 back half with 29.99 mpg in the back half, with a 720 weight. time was 5.788 128.21and 8.880 158.20 this was a nos pass
230-235 rwhp
your back half horsepower shows 234.5 but if you go to the calculator that lucky posted go to the six one on the left put your quarter-mile ET in you will see how far you're off on the front half. if you made 235 on the dino you're probably making 250hp with ram air? Again ram air numbers are only good for the 330 on. Most good running 14 will run 96 to 97mph at the 330. Ken
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Bently
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posted December 04, 2010 10:43 AM
with the bottle pressure we had on that pass the dyno showed 225 hp and this was a busa as well. as far as 330 mph i have never ran a track that shows that.
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Shane661
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posted December 04, 2010 10:59 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 4 Dec 2010 19:01
Imo, paper racing is just that. It's a rough estimate at best. Too many factors to universally apply such formulas. For example, a bike with equal or less peak power to another can ET better in some cases. This can be based on the "shape" of the powerband, among other things.
I also don't get too caught up in dyno hp #'s. The dyno is just a tuning tool, but it can tell you things that mph and a data logger can't. So, in that regard, it can be very useful. But the peak # is often not the most important data.
Shane
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RICH CRAFT 1
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posted December 04, 2010 11:05 AM
Edited By: RICH CRAFT 1 on 4 Dec 2010 19:11
with the bottle pressure we had on that pass the dyno showed 225 hp and this was a busa as well. as far as 330 mph i have never ran a track that shows that.
Well if it was a busa your ram air numbers wouldn't been as good LOL. One of our eighth mile tracks mainly Kennedale use there quarter mile clocks mph at the 330. It makes it great for testing because whatever you run at the 330 the rest of it is pretty much Fixed. Ken
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Shane661
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posted December 04, 2010 11:08 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 4 Dec 2010 19:11
Also, just to throw this out there...I have seen ZX-14 data logging from Bonneville. It didn't build any airbox pressure over 100 mph from what I could tell. So, in that regard, it is not a great ram air system for ultimate hp. Probably due to the restrictive runners, and 90 degree bends at the inlet. It does seem to build what pressure it does make quickly, and perhaps that has some benefit at the dragstrip.
I have also heard that the Busa system is not very good.
I know that's a little off-topic, but I thought it might be of interest to some.
Shane
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RICH CRAFT 1
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posted December 04, 2010 11:47 AM
Edited By: RICH CRAFT 1 on 4 Dec 2010 19:55
Shane, pressure is a big deal. Take barometric pressure when the barometer reads 29.00 to 30.00 that one each is good for about 7 hp on a 200 hp motor. Pro Stock cars lose about 350 hp going from sea level tracks to Denver the mile high city. When you turn on the weather and you see that big H on the weather screen things at the track or probably going to be good but if you see the big L on their four low-pressure you're probably not going to run very good. The higher pressure works like a mini supercharger. I've often wondered about how much pressure a 14 has in the ram air box at 150 mph? I know that their are holes in the box to let the water out that can be fixed. I'll take any pressure than it has to offer LOL. Ken
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Shane661
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posted December 04, 2010 11:55 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 4 Dec 2010 19:57
quote:
Shane, pressure is a big deal. Take barometric pressure when the barometer reads 29.00 to 30.00 that one each is good for about 6 hp on a 200 hp motor. Pro Stock cars lose about 350 hp going from sea level tracks to Denver the mile high city. When you turn on the weather and you see that big H on the weather screen things at the track or probably going to be good but if you see the big L on their four low-pressure you're probably not going to run very good. The higher pressure works like a mini supercharger. I've often wondered about how much pressure a 14 has in the ram air box at 150 mph? I know that their are holes in the box to let the water out that can be fixed. I'll take any pressure than it has to offer LOL. Ken
My point was that the 14 doesn't build much pressure at all, and doesn't seem to build any additional pressure from 100-190 mph...based on the data logs that were provided to me.
I am very aware of the effects of intake pressurization. However, a good ram air system can build between .5 - 1.0 psi at top speed, or more, depending on what the top speed of the vehicle is. The 14 seems to fall far short of that, based on data logged at Bonneville and Maxton.
My point about building pressure quickly, was that it may perhaps help 330' times. However, it is not going to build a huge amount of hp at 150 mph. The design looks to be fairly poor compared to some other systems, such as the 12R. The 14 intake is not in a great high pressure area, and is below the boundary layer (meaning low pressure). It has restrictive runners. It is basically a Naca duct system, which favors aerodynamics over pressurization.
Again, I know this is a little off topic. Just sharing some information.
Shane
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