GREYHOUNDMOSES
Expert Class
Posts: 324
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posted September 30, 2010 12:40 PM
Mysterious misfire
Hi Guys!
I've been lurking for a while but now I'm hoping someone can help.
I can't find an "introduce yourself section" so first let me tell you a little about myself.
I've owned a variety of bikes over the last 30 years but after my long owned FJ1200
spent the last few years untouched in the garage I decided I needed something to
respark my riding. Boy, has the ZZR1400 done that! I just love it!
Bought new November 09 (Candy Lime) I managed to get it broken in and serviced over a bad
British winter and since then have made a few changes to suit my use.
After trailering it back from custom mapping the first chance I got to ride it was to meet the ferry for a 17 day trip through Europe. Only a couple of miles from home the bike started to miss badly.(like someone hitting the kill switch!)
As I was due to meet friends, I decided to press on and try and fix it when I got to France.
First off, I disconected the PCV but no change. Over the next couple of days I discovered that
everything seemed to work fine in gears 1 2 3 but cut out everytime I changed into 4 5 or 6!
I have no idea what can cause a gear dependant misfire!!!
Anybody heard of anything like this?
(If anybody's still here, I promise shorter posts in future!)
  
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted September 30, 2010 02:11 PM
Welcome.
Mine did that once, and a better PC3 ground fixed it, but it was effected in all gears.
This seems very odd. Do you have a speedo healer or other stuff bolted on.
my next guess would be the GPS.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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GREYHOUNDMOSES
Expert Class
Posts: 324
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posted September 30, 2010 02:27 PM
Hi Dubious.
It is odd isn't it!
I've done a number of mods, mainly mechanical (pipe, filter, lowered, bar risers, lowered pegs etc.)
I can't see how ANY
of these are responsible.
The PCV is now completely removed so not that.
I do have a speedo healer fitted( I'm geared 16/43) but how can that cause these symptons?
The flies are untouched and these are the only things I know that are set to behave differently in
gears 4,5,6. but they should be OPEN.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted September 30, 2010 02:47 PM
Remove the speedo healer and try it .. I have heard some reports of bikes not running right with a speedo healer ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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GREYHOUNDMOSES
Expert Class
Posts: 324
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posted September 30, 2010 03:01 PM
quote:
Remove the speedo healer and try it ..
The bike is currently back at the dealer who did the custom mapping
but they've had it over two weeks and phoned me today asking for more
details and basically scratching their heads!
I told them about the speedo healer so they've probably tried this.
Sorry Dubious I got confused with the wrong type of GPS!
The gear reading displays correcly on the dash so it seems to know what gear it's in.
(the revs and speed read outs are also smooth even when the motor shuts down).
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted September 30, 2010 03:30 PM
quote:
quote:
Remove the speedo healer and try it ..
The bike is currently back at the dealer who did the custom mapping
but they've had it over two weeks and phoned me today asking for more
details and basically scratching their heads!
I told them about the speedo healer so they've probably tried this.
Sorry Dubious I got confused with the wrong type of GPS!
The gear reading displays correcly on the dash so it seems to know what gear it's in.
(the revs and speed read outs are also smooth even when the motor shuts down).
I told them about the speedo healer so they've probably tried this.
I call them again and ask them if they tried it with it unhooked .. Other wise it's a guess if they tried it unpluged.... 99 times out of 100 it is the last thing you or the dealer touched that screwed things up..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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GREYHOUNDMOSES
Expert Class
Posts: 324
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posted September 30, 2010 03:47 PM
Good point. No harm in checking.
The guys who have the bike are a long standing Suzuki dealership with a good reputation but have only been an official Kawasaki dealer for about 6 months. While they have a couple of 14's in the showroom
I doubt if they've ever had one in the workshop. As you guys have had 4 years of playing with these toys
you collectively have way more knowledge than they have and I thought I'd punt it in case it's happened to anyone else.
I'll call them tomorrow and keep my fingers crossed I get the bike back before the snow comes!
Thanks.
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Newf14
Zone Head
2007 ZX1400
Posts: 563
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posted September 30, 2010 04:15 PM
Mine dose something similar but mine is more like a stutter at around 2500-3000 rpm's I am gonna try the speedo healer on mine see if it helps. I herd of the speedo healer causing the problem.
Newf14
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted October 01, 2010 12:01 AM
 Edited By: BobC on 1 Oct 2010 11:02
If it is the Speedo Healer it will most likely be the harness that came with it rather than the unit itself. It makes the Speedo Healer "plug and play" but the cable is just crimped into the pins inside the plug and socket and it either pulls out or becomes intermittent through poor contact.
You can extract them from the shell by depressing the locking tab on each pin, with a watchmakers screwdriver if you don't have the correct tool, and then tin the end of the cable and solder it to the pin before popping it back into the shell.
I did this on my bike and also for a friend in the 200MPH Club. Mine ran for 4 years with no problems at all.
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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GREYHOUNDMOSES
Expert Class
Posts: 324
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posted October 01, 2010 11:33 AM
I rang the dealer today and spoke direct to the tech working on my bike.
He confirmed he had removed the Speedohealer. So not that either!
Thanks for the tip Bob, I'll do that as a prevention measure when I, eventualy get the bike back.
To clarify the symptoms, perhaps "misfire" is the wrong term.
When I changed from 3rd to 4th it feels like the motor completely shuts down rather than stutters.
In fact, when I DID hit the kill switch the bike slowed just a fraction more. So the motor Is still running,
but only at tick over (irrespective of road speed). I confirmed this by pulling the clutch and shutting the throttle at different road speeds in 4th and the engine settled at a steady idle.
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reypac24
Novice Class
Old Fart!
Posts: 66
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posted October 01, 2010 11:54 AM
just a thought and please excuse me if it's already been addressed but how about the kickstand safety switch?.
Rey
____________
Red 2006 ZX-14: Green 2000 ZRX-1100; Blue 1977 KZ-1000 LTD;
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GREYHOUNDMOSES
Expert Class
Posts: 324
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posted October 01, 2010 12:51 PM
Thanks Rey. All ideas are good and this one hadn't occurred to me but the
dealer tech told me he'd tried bypassing this - no joy.
He also told me that the diagnostic software was showing no current faults but had one stored
showing an O2 sensor fault. This would have been from when I fired up the bike after fitting the
Yoshi TRC system without fitting the O2 sensor eliminator.
The wierd thing is it NEVER misses a beat in 1,2,3 but ALWAYS cuts in 4,5,6!!!
All this eloctro-wizardry is beyond me. The most complex electronic problem I had to deal with
upto and including my FJ12 was a faulty flasher relay!
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted October 01, 2010 01:10 PM
quote:
Thanks Rey. All ideas are good and this one hadn't occurred to me but the
dealer tech told me he'd tried bypassing this - no joy.
He also told me that the diagnostic software was showing no current faults but had one stored
showing an O2 sensor fault. This would have been from when I fired up the bike after fitting the
Yoshi TRC system without fitting the O2 sensor eliminator.
The wierd thing is it NEVER misses a beat in 1,2,3 but ALWAYS cuts in 4,5,6!!!
All this eloctro-wizardry is beyond me. The most complex electronic problem I had to deal with
upto and including my FJ12 was a faulty flasher relay!
02 sensor ? Our zx14s don't have 02 sensor ? You must have a 09 Busa ...
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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GREYHOUNDMOSES
Expert Class
Posts: 324
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posted October 01, 2010 01:18 PM
Edited By: GREYHOUNDMOSES on 1 Oct 2010 21:19
quote:
? Our zx14s don't have 02 sensor ? You must have a 09 Busa ...
Wash your mouth out Smokin !
It's a European thing. (California?)
It's bypassed by a DJ part (A couple of inline resistors) that fool the ECU that the sensor is still there.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted October 01, 2010 02:10 PM
quote:
quote:
? Our zx14s don't have 02 sensor ? You must have a 09 Busa ...
Wash your mouth out Smokin !
It's a European thing. (California?)
It's bypassed by a DJ part (A couple of inline resistors) that fool the ECU that the sensor is still there.
It's a European thing .... OK i get it ... Kind of the women that don't shave their pits ....  
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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GREYHOUNDMOSES
Expert Class
Posts: 324
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posted October 01, 2010 02:32 PM
Ouch..... kick a man while he's down!
Mind you it's not as hurtful as the Busa slur!!!
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted October 01, 2010 04:56 PM
quote:
Ouch..... kick a man while he's down!
Mind you it's not as hurtful as the Busa slur!!!
Sorry i couldn't help myself .. I wish we could help out and put a finger on your problem but it seems we can't .. It's possible it could be just euro bikes with your problem , maybe that is why we here in the states have not had a problem like yours .. When you do find the problem please let us know what you found...
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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total_chaos
Novice Class
Working on it!
Posts: 45
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posted October 02, 2010 12:55 PM
That's a real question that it seems no1 not even the dealer can answer. Which is very strange for the dealer because all they have to do is a diagnosis test plan and eliminate what's working properly. Did they check to make sure the Kickstand switch isn't rattling or moving?? Or how bout the tip over sensor? There was a recall for that. 1,2,3 Ok is that full throttle or just casual? After tearing one of these down and inspecting every single part inside the only thing I can see causing such a fault would have to be electronic. You said they did some custom mapping at the dealer? Interesting and that's where your problem is. Somewhere in the process something is not right and it very well could be a ground related issue on a number of things. Maybe you have bad terminal connections somewhere in the Battery Compartment or even a starter relay issue. Anything throwing off the electronics is an issue. 02 sensor faults have caused vehicles to completely shut down before. Ask Kawi if there is a fail safe for overheating, oil pressure, or anything other than just the tip over sensor. It's definitely an electronic issue and how the dealer with all their equipment can't figure it out is beyond me. WOW And WOW! Goodluck
Would definitely like to know cause and correction when you do get it tho. Please keep us informed.
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GREYHOUNDMOSES
Expert Class
Posts: 324
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posted October 02, 2010 01:28 PM
Edited By: GREYHOUNDMOSES on 2 Oct 2010 21:30
quote:
You said they did some custom mapping at the dealer? Interesting and that's where your problem is.
More interesting is the tuners attitude has done a u-turn. I spoke to him a few times before deciding to take the bike there and found him friendly, informative and helpful.
On taking the bike back with this problem he had become exactly the opposite and twice suggested I take the bike somewhere else!!
A different mecanic is now working on the problem!
quote:
it very well could be a ground related issue on a number of things.
Maybe but my experience of bad contacts is they either stop altogether or are intermitant/ unpredictable.
I,ll pass on about the tipover switch - I hadn't thought about that.
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total_chaos
Novice Class
Working on it!
Posts: 45
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posted October 02, 2010 02:33 PM
Well i'm no expert i'm just chatting really but wanted to share interest in your issue. That is weird how he seems to want you to take it elsewhere. Maybe it's because he knows something we don't and just doesn't want to tell your ecu is fried because of his own careless tuning. Hmmmmmmm............Find a friend with a similar bike. R&R the ecu with his and see what happens. But then again what if you fry his to lol. It's like having a computer that doesn't boot right. There's a simple explanation as to why but the parts are not mechanical so only experience with a similar issue will prevail. I would get Kawi consumer services on it. Especially if it was tuned by the dealer and now they can't figure it out. They may have you go to another qualified dealer and may even charge your previous dealer with the repairs. Seems like you did the right thing by using the dealer but in turn they just slapped you with a headache. Please keep us informed. Thanks
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GREYHOUNDMOSES
Expert Class
Posts: 324
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posted January 07, 2011 04:42 AM
Edited By: GREYHOUNDMOSES on 7 Jan 2011 13:06
After 3 months without the use of my bike I've finally got to the bottom of the problem!
European bikes run a closed loop EFI system with an O2 sensor in the mid-pipe.
When I fitted the TRC system I removed the sensor (no bung in the new pipe) and everything
ran fine.
When I booked the bike in for custom mapping I was told to fit Dynojet's O2 sensor eliminator
or the ECU would "wipe the custom maps"
It turns out this sensor eliminator is the problem.
Without it, it throws a sensor fault but runs fine. With it, no fault code, but the ECU shuts down the fuel!!!
Not a problem you guys in the U.S. have to worry about!
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