smokinZX14
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Posts: 10197
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posted January 28, 2010 09:18 AM
P/C auto tune info..
I have the new P/C with auto tune and i have not messed with it to much.. Last week i installed brocks street map and turned on the auto tune program just to see what fuel changes it would make ..After some driving and 6 1/8 miles track runs the autotune showed i needed more fuel in some of the lower ranges as well as some more fuel to the upper ranges .. My plan was to run it on the base map and get some base lines then update the map with the autotune settings .. This way i could see if the motor picked up power ( ET and MPH) over the base map ...What i understood about the autotune is after your autotune has made the changes you have to upload the changes to the base map to make the changes .. Well was wrong .. If you leave the autotune on it will and does update the base map as you ride .. If you want you can update the map by saving or sending the newly made trim settings ..Leaving it in autotune it will keep updating the map and refine the map even more the more miles you ride .. So the system really does work as a closed loop system and not an open loop system ..What this means is you can race on a 50 deg day and it will map real time .. The next day maybe 80 and the autotune will adjust to the temp changes and change the map as needed ..The only draw back is the autotune needs more than just one or two runs to build a map, It's a little slow , the sample rate of the autotune is not that fast so it takes some riding to get to your target a/f ratio...But once it does you can add the new trims or just leave it in autotune mode .I called dynojet and asked if i had this right and they told me that is how the autotune works ..
You still need to know what your best A/F ratio is to have your bike run its best .. But once you find that A/F for your bike and riding style you can leave the autotune on and let it do its job ..Lets say 13.0 works best in you bike , just set you trim table to that number , turn on the autotune and it will find that A/F ratio and keep it there even if temps and DA changes ..You can add a switch to the autotune so you can switch back to your base map at anytime .. That way you can test your autotune map against your base map and see what gains you got with the autotune...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
  
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gilberjj
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posted January 28, 2010 09:23 AM
and???? did you gain et or mph from the tuning?
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zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted January 28, 2010 09:28 AM
If you run the auto tune on the treet with alot of mile keep an eye on the egt sending unit they have been known to rot off.
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smokinZX14
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posted January 28, 2010 09:31 AM
 Edited By: smokinZX14 on 28 Jan 2010 17:35
quote:
and???? did you gain et or mph from the tuning?
Well that was what i was going to test ... What i wanted to do was run the base map and then test the autotune map ... But having the autotune turned on ( thinking i was just running a base map ) screwed up my test .. What i will have to do is add the map switch so i can run on the real base map then flip the switch to autotune.. The way i had it set up last night it was updating the map the hole time so i never did run on the base map like i had planned..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Nelson Taylor
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posted January 28, 2010 09:31 AM
Thats some pimp shyt right there Smokin.
Is the autotune only for the 08 and newer models?
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Best #'s
1.54
4.03
6.02 @ 121mph
(Stock Wheelbase) 2006 ZX14
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smokinZX14
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posted January 28, 2010 09:33 AM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 28 Jan 2010 17:33
quote:
Thats some pimp shyt right there Smokin.
Is the autotune only for the 08 and newer models?
Mine is for the 08 09 but i think they offer it for the 06 07 ..You would have to check with Dynojet to be sure ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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gilberjj
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posted January 28, 2010 09:37 AM
They only "offer" it for 08+, but it works for all years.
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smokinZX14
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posted January 28, 2010 09:40 AM
quote:
They only "offer" it for 08+, but it works for all years.
Thanks , that is good to know ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Nelson Taylor
Zone Head
Posts: 927
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posted January 28, 2010 09:41 AM
Edited By: Nelson Taylor on 28 Jan 2010 17:49
Does it really, that is good to know.....
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Best #'s
1.54
4.03
6.02 @ 121mph
(Stock Wheelbase) 2006 ZX14
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Sticks_n_Stones
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Posts: 3930
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posted January 28, 2010 10:38 AM
I have a PDF of a test done by FOrd Muscle where they tested all the various wideband sensors- or more accurately since all wideband sensors are made by Bosch; they tested which circuitry and attached equipment worked best. The results were stunning to say the least. And the best setup, hands down, was the Innovate XD-16 Kit. The Dynojet Wideband Commander was the worst .
Here is some excerpts from the article. I can email it to anybody who wants the full Adobe file article with all the graphs and charts: tracy.l.perman2@boeing.com
"The big breakthrough for the performance aftermarket occurred when Bosch made the LSU4 wide band O2 sensor available for a reasonable price, and the aftermarket responded by making affordable wide band air fuel ratio meters using this sensor. This is a boon to the DIY tuner as now there are many wideband air fuel ratio meters available on the market for a reasonable price.
Not All are Equal
Many questions have arisen since the widespread availability of wideband air-fuel meters.
First, since all of these meters use the same Bosch sensor, and since this sensor is factory calibrated, are they all more or less equal? The answer is no. There is significant difference between the controllers and circuitry used in the various meters. How the sensor's heater is controlled and how the pump current is switched and controlled, for instance, are critical for accurate sensor operation. Other questions also can be posed:
Which meter is the best performing one? Which meters have the features I need?
With these question and few subjective answers to be found, we set out to determine which meters were the best. The task was a difficult one but we were determined to find the answers.
...Methodology
The plan was to take eight popular units and test them right out of the box using calibrated compressed gas. We'd then run them for an hour on a test engine, with leaded race fuel, to simulate wear on the sensor. Finally we'd test them again with calibrated lab gas. The compressed gas is from Scott Specialty Gasses and formulated to SAE standards for .8 lambda and .895 lambda (11.76 AFR and 13.15 AFR respectively). The gas gives us a control with which we can test each sensor without introducing variability - such as a change in rpm if we were to use the test engine's exhaust gas. To further control the study we used Westech's expensive ECM LambdaPro which read dead-on for both of the gas controls."
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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SteddyTeddy
Pro
Posts: 1664
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posted January 28, 2010 11:21 AM
 I've had the Wideband Commander on my bike for about a year or more now. Let me tell you it is not the greatest but it is not the worst. The Autometer wideband is the worst! I went through 2 new ones and many emails back and forth with tech at Autometer. Finally they sent me a 3rd and I sold it to recoop my money. The part the sucks with the WB Commander is the software. I haven't seen the new WB2 yet but I hope they greatly improved the software because that is where the Inovative really comes out on top.
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Sticks_n_Stones
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Posts: 3930
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posted January 28, 2010 11:44 AM
The ones tested were:
Innovate XD-16 Kit $399
AEM All-in-One UEGO Gauge $349
FAST Air/Fuel Meter $466
FJO Controller, Sensor, & Display $639
PLX M300 Air/Fuel Gauge $315
Dynojet Wideband Commander $529
Zeitronix ZT-2 $279
NGK/AFX Meter $295
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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bigdtd
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Interceptors
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posted January 28, 2010 12:09 PM
that is the million dollar question? what is the right a/f mixture for a zx14 at our location 
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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smokinZX14
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Posts: 10197
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posted January 28, 2010 01:11 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 28 Jan 2010 23:59
quote:
that is the million dollar question? what is the right a/f mixture for a zx14 at our location
.
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinZX14
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Posts: 10197
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posted January 28, 2010 01:26 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 29 Jan 2010 00:00
quote:
If you run the auto tune on the treet with alot of mile keep an eye on the egt sending unit they have been known to rot off.
..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted January 28, 2010 02:00 PM
Smokin I cant say from my own experience but the dyno shop tuner that I use told me that if I wanted to use auto tune to keep an eye on the sensor that he has seen a few fail but it wouldnt happen on a drag bike because they dont run long enough for that to happen.He could be full of if but he did have a shop full of 14s.His concern was what it could do to the tune up if this happens?
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gilberjj
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posted January 28, 2010 02:03 PM
The o2 sensors on cars and bikes are not wideband.
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smokinZX14
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posted January 28, 2010 02:06 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 29 Jan 2010 00:01
quote:
The o2 sensors on cars and bikes are not wideband.
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____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinZX14
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Posts: 10197
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posted January 28, 2010 02:08 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 29 Jan 2010 00:03
quote:
The o2 sensors on cars and bikes are not wideband.
.. ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Shane661
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posted January 28, 2010 02:09 PM
Maybe because they hang under the bike like they do on some exhausts?
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smokinZX14
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Posts: 10197
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posted January 28, 2010 02:17 PM
quote:
Maybe because they hang under the bike like they do on some exhausts?
My 02 on my truck is under the car ...My toyota has two under the car next to the cats inches off the ground ...Last time i looked they are still there lol....
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Shane661
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posted January 28, 2010 02:25 PM
I hope they rot off and it costs you a lot of money. 
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gilberjj
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posted January 28, 2010 02:25 PM
I've never heard of widebands going bad prematurely from anything but leaded gas. Leaded gas will quickly eat o2 sensors!
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smokinZX14
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posted January 28, 2010 02:34 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 29 Jan 2010 00:02
quote:
I hope they rot off and it costs you a lot of money.
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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SteddyTeddy
Pro
Posts: 1664
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posted January 28, 2010 02:39 PM
Almost 2 years on mine and still working. It was used when I bought it. Funny, I asked a mechanic at the Caddy dealer my wife works at if it would be a good idea to change the O2 sensors on my truck since I'm getting near 180k. He laughed and said if they are still working then let them alone.
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