zx14fan
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posted January 20, 2010 12:58 PM
oil sheering
I dont want to start another oil war thread but I thought this could be of interest to those who wonder if synthetic oil has any benefits over standard petroleum.This was sent to me from uc sf. When a motor oil is heated beyond a certain temperature it will start to degrade, even if there is no oxygen present. This is called thermal degradation and causes the oil to change viscosity. The thermal stability of a motor oil cannot be improved by use of additives. As temperatures increase, thermal degradation increases. Petroleum oils have a much lower operating temperature range while premium quality synthetic motor oils have a very high operating temperature range and are much more resistant to thermal degradation.
SHEARING
This refer to oil “breakdown” which refers to the action due to shear forces. An internal combustion engine imparts high shear forces on a motor oil, which is sandwiched between two rotating or sliding forces under load and heat. The molecular structure is essentially torn apart by these mechanical shear forces. The component of the oil that is affected most by these shear forces is the viscosity improvers. These viscosity improvers allow the manufacturer of the oil to create multi-grade oils suitable for a wider temperature range of operation. The end result of these shear forces is a decrease in the viscosity of the oil as well as a decrease in the viscosity index. Once a motor oil has sheared beyond a specific point it will not revert back to its base structure when it cools down and the shear forces have ceased. Because of the absence of viscosity improvers in synthetic oils they are extremely resistant to the detrimental effects of shear forces.
Just in case you were interested, I also found some information on wear and tear of the oil during motor operation: Lubricating oil is chemically transformed by oxidation, nitration, cracking of polymers, decomposition of organometallic compounds, etc. Motor oil accumulates different contaminants, such as fuel (petrol or diesel), water, antifreeze and insoluble particles. The water content can be as much as 9%, fuels can represent up to 10% and solid particles up to 8% (with the most damaging ranging from 1 to 5 microns in diameter). Used motor oil will also contain sulphur, phosphorus and chlroride. Phosphorus could be detrimental to the catalytic converter if found in significant amounts. The engine wearing during use also causes deposits of heavy metals. The resultant products of this type of wear include iron, lead, copper, tin, aluminum from bearing and bushing material and other metals such as chromium from piston rings and valve train parts.
I hope this helps and if you have any questions, feel free to ask me (be advised a high price will be imposed, lol)
  
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AcadianaZX
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posted January 21, 2010 03:54 AM
Dude, I want to marry your wife. lol! She make you smart. hehe 
James
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted January 21, 2010 11:17 AM
And synthetics stay cleaner longer than conventional oil too. 
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted January 21, 2010 11:18 AM
It's been a while since the last oil thread 
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gilberjj
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posted January 21, 2010 12:38 PM
oil shmoil
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zx14fan
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posted January 21, 2010 02:19 PM
True they are much cleaner.My wife is a chemist so I have some help with oil info and since there is almost all drag racers on this site I thought it might help a little.I try not to get involved in all the oil debate because its endless.there is alot of information that is simply not true in many of the oil threads.I myself do not know much about oil just the basics but I have access to reliable oil information.
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TooHype
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posted January 21, 2010 07:17 PM
 Whats are the differences between "Motorcyle oil" vs. "Car oil" if any? 
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Go Hard or Go Home !!....2007 Diablo Black ZX-14, BMC Race Filter, Brock's Alien Head, Brock's Radial Mount Strap, PClll with Custom Map, Flies removed, Muzzy fan, Muzzy lowering links, Muzzy Fender Eliminator, 16/41, Speedohealer, Stretched 6", Lowered 3" IN GOD I TRUST !......If You’re a Hater….KILLYASELF !!
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AcadianaZX
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posted January 22, 2010 04:41 AM
 Edited By: AcadianaZX on 22 Jan 2010 14:11
TooHype, You want JASO MA/MA2 API rating for wet clutch compatibility. MC oil is formulated with higher performance technology. If using car oil for your bike, stay away from economy blends with moly additives. Here is a MC oil test that may explain a little http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf
James
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zx14fan
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posted January 22, 2010 10:01 AM
True motorcycle oil has blends for the clutch.Do not use car oil unless you have to then change it as soon as you can.
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gilberjj
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posted January 22, 2010 11:39 AM
quote:
True motorcycle oil has blends for the clutch.Do not use car oil unless you have to then change it as soon as you can.
find me an ACTUAL PERSON who had their clutch slip as soon as they used mobil 1 syn or rotella t. This "friction modifier/clutch slipping" is nothing more then a theory in my opinion, and it's not enough to get me to buy the expensive stuff. There is a case to be made that the expensive oil can provide protection beyond that of other synthetics, but that is also theory imo.
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eklipse636
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posted January 22, 2010 11:48 AM
quote:
True motorcycle oil has blends for the clutch.Do not use car oil unless you have to then change it as soon as you can.
*BUZZER* wrong! Lot of people run mobil1 synthetic and Rotella synthetic oil in their bikes. If I remember correct smokin and nooby run mobil1 and a lot of guys run rotella, in luring myself with a few years and no problem...
You were almost impressing me with the Oil stuff your wife knows.
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Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted January 22, 2010 01:01 PM
quote:
Whats are the differences between "Motorcyle oil" vs. "Car oil" if any?
The zinc content is the difference.
It is added to the oil to help protect the transmission .
It is used to add more cushion to high load parts .
Ever smell gear oil before? Has a strong distinct smell doesn't it?
A good motorcycle only oil will have a similar smell but not as strong cause
Of the reduced zinc content.
That is the zinc put there to protect those gears that are under high loads all the time in those rear ends.
Zinc was also in diesel oil and was a good choice for M/C use but the EPA
has put a stop to zinc in diesel oil for emissions reasons.
Motorcycles of the 60's through the mid to late 80's benefited greatly
to zinc enriched oil , but thanks to modern advancements in metalurgy
and synthetic oils , bikes really aren't that dependant on zinc enriched oil
like they once were.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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TooHype
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posted January 22, 2010 04:58 PM
quote:
quote:
Whats are the differences between "Motorcyle oil" vs. "Car oil" if any?
The zinc content is the difference.
but thanks to modern advancements in metalurgy
and synthetic oils , bikes really aren't that dependant on zinc enriched oil
like they once were.
Car Oil !! 
____________
Go Hard or Go Home !!....2007 Diablo Black ZX-14, BMC Race Filter, Brock's Alien Head, Brock's Radial Mount Strap, PClll with Custom Map, Flies removed, Muzzy fan, Muzzy lowering links, Muzzy Fender Eliminator, 16/41, Speedohealer, Stretched 6", Lowered 3" IN GOD I TRUST !......If You’re a Hater….KILLYASELF !!
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zx14fan
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posted January 22, 2010 05:14 PM
I use mobil 1 in evrything I own.The 14 likes it and if the clutch starts to slip then it was going to slip no matter what oil was used.
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zx14fan
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posted January 22, 2010 05:21 PM
Nobody said not to use synthetic oil.If you go back and read when this thread started it was all for synthetic.I said you should stay away from car oil if possible.the mobil 1 I use is for motorcycles and my personal belief is that its one of if not the best of oils.
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eklipse636
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posted January 22, 2010 05:48 PM
quote:
Nobody said not to use synthetic oil.If you go back and read when this thread started it was all for synthetic.I said you should stay away from car oil if possible.the mobil 1 I use is for motorcycles and my personal belief is that its one of if not the best of oils.
mobil1 is car oil and rotella is truck oil... Please explain fan. You said stay away from car oil. Those are car oils..
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Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted January 22, 2010 06:07 PM
quote:
quote:
Nobody said not to use synthetic oil.If you go back and read when this thread started it was all for synthetic.I said you should stay away from car oil if possible.the mobil 1 I use is for motorcycles and my personal belief is that its one of if not the best of oils.
mobil1 is car oil and rotella is truck oil... Please explain fan. You said stay away from car oil. Those are car oils..
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted January 22, 2010 06:09 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Whats are the differences between "Motorcyle oil" vs. "Car oil" if any?
The zinc content is the difference.
but thanks to modern advancements in metalurgy
and synthetic oils , bikes really aren't that dependant on zinc enriched oil
like they once were.
Car Oil !!
That'll work 
____________
'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted January 22, 2010 06:15 PM
I use the finger tip test to see which oil I'm gonna use.
Take a little oil you're using and rub your finger tips together on it
and see if it feels slick and provides a nice almost sticky
cushion between your finger tips. That's good stuff !
Now if it feels " watery" and you can feel your finger tips
more than you can feel the oil then stay away from it.
Also do the finger tip test after your oil has been used. It should pretty much feel the same
As it was when fresh.
Simple test but effective!
____________
'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted January 22, 2010 06:17 PM
Royal purple
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zx14fan
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posted January 22, 2010 08:44 PM
The mobil 1 I use is made for sport bikes.Rotella is great oil but I dont know if they make a bike oil like mobil 1. Im sure the car oil would work fine but in my opinion its better to use an oil thats made for bikes.
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted January 22, 2010 09:02 PM
That would be mobile 1 MX4T fully synthetic motorcycle oil.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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AcadianaZX
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posted January 23, 2010 03:01 AM
In 2007 car formulations have changed because of EPA guidelines. Recently Shell's Rotella T came out with the JASO MA/MA2 API specification. Good stuff. Improving on a great product. I hope the Amsoil Gods are not watching.lol. Moly base car oil is the formulations that you do not want to put in your bike because it will not stay stabilized with shear strength stability to with stand metal to metal contact in your gear case for hard usage or prolonged road usage. If we go by the book, yes we would only use MC oils in our bikes but most of us want to go fast and we will use what ever get's the little extra we are looking for. Dominator 5w20 Racing oil for me. Racing oil is not under the EPA radar because it is for closed course use only and it's high in the good contents. Here's one from Brock's thread of useful info. http://www.brockracing.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=21&TopicID=942&PagePosition=1 In all I like reading everyones opinions.
James
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zx14fan
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posted January 23, 2010 09:51 AM
There could be some truth to that thread I cant say for sure? If you ride on the street like I do and you want your hot rod to last i would still use mobil 1.If your a hard core drag nut like most are on this site and work on your bike then that could be yet another story but personaly I dont put alot into that.
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gilberjj
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posted January 23, 2010 09:57 AM
James, I have never heard a BAD thing about amsoil, and I enjoyed that article. Email me a price for a case to gilberjj@gmail.com
My bike is full race now. I race in 50-100 degree temps, and I would rather the oil last long then give me 1 more hp......
I would say my priorities are....
protection
price
longevity
performance
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