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posted January 20, 2010 06:44 PM
 Edited By: Flame On on 21 Jan 2010 02:48
Actually that seems more of a burn to Suzuki & Yoshi now . If Kawi was the originator First AMA win
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted January 20, 2010 07:06 PM
quote:
quote:
Pops Yoshimura to race a Kawasaki Z1000 in the newly formed AMA production class. He won his first AMA superbike race in 1977.[1] For the 1978 season, Yoshimura switched to better handling Suzuki
I agree, but they were NOT a Factory Team like Suzuki does Yosh now.
Wes and Pop's did this "In house" his shop.
Before that pop's made fast Honda's in the early 70's.
Yah yosh defected to suzuki and have been a suzuki pipe ever since.
Heck even Yamaha has it's own pipe which is akrapovic I think.
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Flame On
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posted January 20, 2010 07:12 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Pops Yoshimura to race a Kawasaki Z1000 in the newly formed AMA production class. He won his first AMA superbike race in 1977.[1] For the 1978 season, Yoshimura switched to better handling Suzuki
I agree, but they were NOT a Factory Team like Suzuki does Yosh now.
Wes and Pop's did this "In house" his shop.
Before that pop's made fast Honda's in the early 70's.
Yah yosh defected to suzuki and have been a suzuki pipe ever since.
Heck even Yamaha has it's own pipe which is akrapovic I think.
Clueless strikes again
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posted January 21, 2010 03:53 PM
Short trip down memory road... - The Yosh Kaws were completely Pops, Fujio & Nabe. Nothing to do with a Kaw factory effort. I'm not sure I even remember them getting any (or much) support from Kaw. I was down there seemed like every other week getting motors rebuilt, getting parts and generally getting tutored in performance engine building, exhaust design, and chassis set up by them.
If I remember correctly (and this is ancient history ) - Not counting when it was called "Superbike Production" (which Pops first won in '73 with Yvon Duhamel when I think it was called Dale Starr Engineering). Technically, the first Kaw Superbike (as we know it) win was with Reg Pridmore on the Racecrafters sponsored bike built by Pierre DesRoches and Jewel Hendricks in '77 after he switched from BMW. Pops won with Wes Cooley later that year at Riverside on the Yosh Kaw. But Reg still won the championship, as he did again in '78 on the Vetter Kaws again built by Pierre & Jewel (beating the "superior" Yosh Suzukis). I actually raced the factory Yosh Kaw at the Sears Point AMA National in '78 or 79. After continually getting flicked out of the seat in violent tank slappers, Steve McLaughlin (Yosh/Suz) convinced me to park it and race my own "sorted" privateer Kaw before I hurt myself. I believe that was the last time they raced it.
The first actual "Factory" effort by Kawasaki was I believe in '79 with Mike Baldwin & Freddie Spencer. Freddie won the Sears Point National (although Wes Cooley won the championship on the Yosh Suz). with an assist from yours truly. They needed an offset counter shaft sprocket for the correct gearing, and I just so happen to be the only other Kaw in the paddock with the correct offset & teeth. So I gave it to them in exchange for a set of coils and ignition off a KZ1000Mk2. And I felt like I got the better end of the trade at the time. 
Anyway, now feeling completely old and dated.... back to your regularly scheduled debate... 
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posted January 21, 2010 04:00 PM
Great read!
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posted January 21, 2010 04:29 PM
Good Read, but you did not tell about the 811cc Honda S.O.H.C. 750 Pop's made first.
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posted January 21, 2010 04:35 PM
I believe Kerry isn't a honda fan
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posted January 21, 2010 04:36 PM
I'm getting a history lesson.. All this happened before i was born!
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Flame On
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posted January 21, 2010 05:18 PM
Old school racing good read Kerry
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posted January 21, 2010 05:21 PM
quote:
Good Read, but you did not tell about the 811cc Honda S.O.H.C. 750 Pop's made first.
Only because we weren't discussing the 811 Honda. But if you like, we can go into detail about it. But not a lot to say. Even the best 811's at the time, were getting spanked by the stock 903 Z1A with only an aftermarket exhaust. The only time they would run against them somewhat equally, was when they were "Big Bertha'd". This ended up being about 890 and was pretty competitive against the 1002 Z1 engines. But when we went up to 1025 and matched them with CR carbs, big bump sticks, and two ring slipper pistons, all the SOHC Hondas got retired and obsoleted pretty quickly...
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posted January 21, 2010 05:23 PM
quote:
I believe Kerry isn't a honda fan
Well I was a complete "Kawboy" thru & thru at the time. It took a few years (actually until the 1983 V4 VF750) for me to overcome that and love them. But then I really started hating them again when the cams started wearing out quickly. Then when you wanted to build it into a Superbike, the only viable parts were HRC and you had to sell your soul to be able to afford the engine alone....
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posted January 21, 2010 05:24 PM
quote:
I'm getting a history lesson.. All this happened before i was born!
That hurts....
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posted January 21, 2010 05:25 PM
quote:
Old school racing good read Kerry
Thanx. I'm actually writing a short memory road trip titled "I remember". It will be a Bikeland exclusive.
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posted January 21, 2010 05:53 PM
quote:
quote:
I believe Kerry isn't a honda fan
Well I was a complete "Kawboy" thru & thru at the time.
It took a few years (actually until the 1983 V4 VF750) for me to overcome that and
love them. But then I really started hating them again when the cams started wearing out quickly.
Then when you wanted to build it into a Superbike, the only viable parts were HRC and you had to sell
your soul to be able to afford the engine alone....
Damn old hondas love to break ! Lol!
The the old KZ's I built never broke or had engine problems. The CB1100F I still have has been nothing but an
expensive grenade but I love that machine! But if it fails the same parts again after I put her back together
I will just rebuild it back to stock and keep the rev limiter set low
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posted January 21, 2010 08:03 PM
Nice thread 
As long as we are all aware that a full Leo Vince or Akra will and does make more power than a full Yoshi on any current gsxr, that's how we first went offtopic.
Unless you get the full ti with the crazy expensive "superbike" Yoshi header that doesn't have all the retarded bends that the regular full systems do. I've only seen a handfull of these exhausts, nobody has posted dyno graphs with one.
The gixxer forums have threads that have beaten this topic to death,
look it up for yourself.
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posted January 21, 2010 08:27 PM
Keep in mind if your talking full bore side winder drag pipes are made for wide open power other track pipes might have a different power band design for high & low RPM smooth decelerate & accelerate power band that may not get a wider open HP deliverance
Possible we are comparing Apples & Oranges
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posted January 21, 2010 10:29 PM
sidewinders aren't made for max hp... they're made for max ground clearance. They actually don't make much more than the smeg or comparable pipes.
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Flame On
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posted January 22, 2010 12:28 AM
Edited By: Flame On on 22 Jan 2010 08:29
Drag pipes can run full bore unrestricted without a smooth back pressure power band needed I am not totally sure but believe that set up could show more HP than a back pressure more restricted powerband exhaust pipe on a dyno
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posted January 22, 2010 10:09 AM
quote:
quote:
I'm getting a history lesson.. All this happened before i was born!
That hurts....
lol, didn't mean for any low blows, I feel left out of this conversation...
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posted January 22, 2010 11:26 AM
quote:
sidewinders aren't made for max hp... they're made for max ground clearance. They actually don't make much more than the smeg or comparable pipes.
that's not what brocks will claim...... I know my sidewinder has larger primaries then my old alien head. That would suggest more peak power at the expense of low/mid range.
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posted January 22, 2010 12:10 PM
quote:
Keep in mind if your talking full bore side winder drag pipes are made for wide open power other track pipes might have a different power band design for high & low RPM smooth decelerate & accelerate power band that may not get a wider open HP deliverance
Possible we are comparing Apples & Oranges
Neither of the mentioned exhausts manufacturers has a sidewinder drag pipe for a 600, 750 or 1000.
I'm only comparing full exhausts- all ti, all derived from road racing and all wearing the factory "top dog" title and price sticker.
Not apples to oranges regarding Yoshi vs Akra or Yoshi vs Leo Vince.
Someone just mentioned that they are Suzuki's top aftermarket exhaust-
I just wanted to point out that that is not really the case.
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posted January 22, 2010 12:27 PM
quote:
quote:
Keep in mind if your talking full bore side winder drag pipes are made for wide open power other track pipes might have a different power band design for high & low RPM smooth decelerate & accelerate power band that may not get a wider open HP deliverance
Possible we are comparing Apples & Oranges
Neither of the mentioned exhausts manufacturers has a sidewinder drag pipe for a 600, 750 or 1000.
I'm only comparing full exhausts- all ti, all derived from road racing and all wearing the factory "top dog" title and price sticker.
Not apples to oranges regarding Yoshi vs Akra or Yoshi vs Leo Vince.
Someone just mentioned that they are Suzuki's top aftermarket exhaust-
I just wanted to point out that that is not really the case.
Yoshi is a suzuki exhaust ,however there are other pipes that make more power on suzukis.
Like a brocks on a busa for an example makes more power than a yosh.
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posted January 22, 2010 12:35 PM
quote:
quote:
sidewinders aren't made for max hp... they're made for max ground clearance. They actually don't make much more than the smeg or comparable pipes.
that's not what brocks will claim...... I know my sidewinder has larger primaries then my old alien head.
That would suggest more peak power at the expense of low/mid range.
A sidewinder is designed for drag bikes only and with the zero clerance for right leans
means go straight lol! Usually a sidewinder will have bigger primaries too.
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posted January 22, 2010 12:36 PM
quote:
sidewinders aren't made for max hp... they're made for max ground clearance. They actually don't make much more than the smeg or comparable pipes.
This is somewhat correct. Speaking only for myself, the basic principal of design is the necessity of ground clearance with the Sidewinder on slammed drag bikes. Obviously we can't go under the engine since it's already almost touching the ground. That being said, a properly designed Sidewinder and a similar spec (diameter, length, tapers, steps, merges, megaphone, etc.) " under engine" conventional system will end up being almost identical in performance through-out the powerband.
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posted January 22, 2010 02:59 PM
Side winders are made for max ground clearance this I now and some of them are made for drag race only . I do know full drag only race pipes don't need back pressure like a RR pipe for a smooth decelerate powerband that is needed from back pressure it may also lower a dyno # over a un corked pipe comparison is what I'm asking
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