KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted February 26, 2010 03:17 PM
quote:
quote:
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quote:
No dyno printouts?????????
No pictures , no dyno charts , no nothing !!!! Just a bunch of gum flapping ..
Who pissed in your cornflakes? You saying they are lying?
Nobody pissed anywhere ..WE have been asking for pictures and info since this thread was first posted ..You should keep up a little more ..
ive followed the whole thread.
Jim is doing great work for us racers and you claim its gum flapping....
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
  
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted February 26, 2010 03:38 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
No dyno printouts?????????
No pictures , no dyno charts , no nothing !!!! Just a bunch of gum flapping ..
Who pissed in your cornflakes? You saying they are lying?
Nobody pissed anywhere ..WE have been asking for pictures and info since this thread was first posted ..You should keep up a little more ..
ive followed the whole thread.
Jim is doing great work for us racers and you claim its gum flapping....
I never said jim was gum flapping ,i was talking to rtbrain...He would not take pictures and will not post before and after dyno numbers ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted February 26, 2010 03:47 PM
well this is Jims thread not Randles... ( "WE have been asking for pictures and info since this thread was first posted ..You should keep up a little more " )
lots of guys dont post before and after of their builds, thats pretty normal in racing as we all know...
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted February 26, 2010 03:57 PM
quote:
well this is Jims thread not Randles... ( "WE have been asking for pictures and info since this thread was first posted ..You should keep up a little more " )
lots of guys dont post before and after of their builds, thats pretty normal in racing as we all know...
Your asking US to put out 3200 bucks on faith ? No way sir ...Give us pictures , flow charts , dyno charts before and after ,, Track numbers ,, Something !!! ..Hell man i'm not asking for your first born ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted February 26, 2010 04:08 PM
I'M not asking you to do anything, but I would send my head to Jim because I know about the quality of work he does, his other work is proven to get results.
I do agree a few charts would be nice to see
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted February 26, 2010 04:11 PM
quote:
I'M not asking you to do anything, but I would send my head to Jim because I know about the quality of work he does, his other work is proven to get results.
I do agree a few charts would be nice to see
Well ok we are on the same page ..Toss in some pictures with the dyno charts and we all can be happy ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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rtbain
Expert Class
old, fat and slow
Posts: 244
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posted February 27, 2010 05:42 AM
Whoa yall! There were no pictures because I am lazy. The build had some issues not related to Jim's head. Pictures were not taken because everyone was busy trying to get the head finished and the motor back together.
I feel bad because the head is absolutely gorgeous! The builder gave it the highest compliment; he said “I want to have sex with it”.
This forum has supplied me with a lot of information which proved VERY helpful in deciding which direction to go with my build. For that I am grateful and wish to share my experience so that others may learn from my mistakes and successes.
The reason I haven't posted dyno chart is twofold:
1. It’s a Factory Pro Dyno and the tuner asked me to post Dyno Jet equivalent numbers. It’s a pet peeve of his which I intend to honor.
2. The printout also contains information from a 'reference bike'. I don't release information regarding other people's motors without permission.
Good news is, thanks to Jim, the bike will be dynoed on a DynoJet so results can be posted. Bad news is it may be after the Texas Mile (end of March) before I can get to the dyno (different city).
____________
Randy
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted February 27, 2010 06:38 AM
Funny you mention the tuners pet peeve. I have a friend with a factory pro dyno and he has the same concern. Too many people "say" they understand the difference but continue to advertise the numbers without full disclosure. Nobody wants to advertise their work in less than perfect light.
Randle, make a few 1/4 passes and let us see the tickets.
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JDC
Zone Head
Posts: 570
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posted February 27, 2010 06:48 AM
 Edited By: JDC on 27 Feb 2010 14:49
Not say DynoJet is the best, or worst dyno, more or less accurate, but I've used three of them around S. Cal, and each came in within about .2 HP and TQ from each other. I like consistency.
Now, if I compare those DJ numbers against, say Thunders dyno (in Az) numbers, the DJ results are about 15 HP lower! and yeah, dis-similar dyno comparisons are useless.
Waiting to see the numbers for the work in this post.
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted February 27, 2010 07:20 AM
I am much easier ... relative gains in percentages are just fine. That would let me know the approximate gain I would see on my bike.
But I would like to know the difference from the base line ... such as were the baseline and race motor both dynoed with a good tune , using the same fuel , same exhaust , etc. Just so I can try to understand what the gains from the heads and cams are. I understand that you didnt dyno the motor with just the bigger bore and higher compression but I think a 5% increase in displacement yields a 5% increase in power would be close enough.
Roy
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted February 27, 2010 08:18 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 27 Feb 2010 16:20
It will be interesting to see how the bike runs in Texas. 
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted February 27, 2010 09:28 AM
quote:
motor vibrates more, i dont think it revs any faster ...
2 batteries will fit where the stock battery is located, but you need to fab a new battery tray.
I wouldnt do a build thread, I just bolt shit together,,,, I would nto consider myself a bike builder
Roy
increased oil flow, volume and pressure to vital parts like crank bearings and topend, or turbo is much better with the balancer oil ports plugged.
maybe its Roys stroker thats buzzing too?
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted February 27, 2010 09:50 AM
quote:
It will be interesting to see how the bike runs in Texas.
that should be easy to predict ... you can take any run with a known hp and speed, and calculate what the same vehicle will do with more hp . That is assuming that the aero stays the same. this graph is actually wind resistance , so you would need to adjust for headwind or tail wind. I am logging airspeed on the bike now to make the measurement better, but if you have enough runs you may be able to use an average , tossing out the highest and lowest numbers.
In this case ,keeping the aero the same would mean same rider and same ride height. here is a graph of what I can run on a faired zx14 lowered 1" at the rear .
when I fist ran at maxton I had a speed of 185 mph with 171 hp. this was a stock bike , zx12 header, and PC3 tuned for 12.8. the hp number is a relative thing, so you would need to creat your own graph with the measured power and speed from your run , but this can give you an idea of what it takes to run higher mph.
this is the same graph exploded to see the mph and hp easier.
Roy
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Shane661
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Posts: 11494
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posted February 27, 2010 09:55 AM
Roy, what kind of logger are you using? I haven't seen that software before...or is it an Excel spreadsheet?
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted February 27, 2010 10:00 AM
quote:
Roy, what kind of logger are you using? I haven't seen that software before...or is it an Excel spreadsheet?
that is an excel spread sheet to graph air speed vs power. you can calculate the hp required to run any speed once you have any single valid point.
Roy
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1badzx12r
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Posts: 8321
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posted February 27, 2010 10:17 AM
quote:
quote:
It will be interesting to see how the bike runs in Texas.
this is the same graph exploded to see the mph and hp easier.
Roy
ain't no 240hp going to run no 220mph .. well maybe if it chunked out of a plane at 105 .000 ft without a parachute
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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wrongway
Pro
Posts: 1078
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posted February 27, 2010 11:10 AM
quote:
ain't no 240hp going to run no 220mph .. well maybe if it chunked out of a plane at 105 .000 ft without a parachute
I hate it when people cant read.... the hp number is relative... that is the measured power from a run my bike did on a specific dyno. Now that number may not be the same on your dyno ... But if my bike can do a 240 hp run on the same dyno , i believe it will do 220 mph in the mile ( assuming that the bike is at terminal speed in the mile) . And you maybe less aerodynamic than I am ( at 230 lbs, I aint no jockey) so you could go slower. you would need to get a good hp number and a good air speed for your setup at a terminal speed to see how much hp it takes to go 220 mph.
hope that clears it up ...
Roy
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted February 27, 2010 12:36 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 27 Feb 2010 20:38
quote:
ain't no 240hp going to run no 220mph ..
You might be surprised at the speeds that people have run with 240 hp....or less. I know you are smart about motors...so what do you think about 1287cc of streetable motor going 211 mph in the mile?
Do you think that bike makes anywhere near even 220 hp on the dyno?
Think about it.
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1badzx12r
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Posts: 8321
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posted February 27, 2010 02:24 PM
quote:
quote:
ain't no 240hp going to run no 220mph ..
so what do you think about 1287cc of streetable motor going 211 mph in the mile?
Do you think that bike makes anywhere near even 220 hp on the dyno?
Think about it.
maybe with a 40 mph tailwind and a 1 1/2 mile track like loring ...
i put it to you guys like this .. bring some 240rwhp bikes to texas and if any of them with a 90lb monkey riding can go 220mph in that mile .. i'll buy supper at red lobster .. if they don't make 220mph ..you buying me supper
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted February 27, 2010 05:09 PM
quote:
maybe with a 40 mph tailwind and a 1 1/2 mile track like loring ...
That 1287 hasn't run at Loring....but I guess you figure it makes how much hp to hit 211 mph in a mile? You think 215, 220 dyno hp...out of an N/A 1287?
How much dyno HP do you think Dave O's bike had? Or any 1507 out there?
How much hp do you think 240 hp on the dyno equates to with airbox pressuration at speed?
Wake up, man!! 
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted February 27, 2010 05:17 PM
quote:
quote:
Wake up, man!!
Anybody needs a wake up its you ..
we got money on the table .. now lets eat ..
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted February 27, 2010 05:20 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 28 Feb 2010 01:21
quote:
Anybody needs a wake up its you ..
we got money on the table .. now lets eat ..
Let me hurry up and build a stroker motor so I can win a $25 meal at Red Lobster. 
Besides, Texas is known for bad winds...cross and headwinds...you know this!
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rtbain
Expert Class
old, fat and slow
Posts: 244
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posted February 27, 2010 06:43 PM
quote:
ain't no 240hp going to run no 220mph .. well maybe if it chunked out of a plane at 105 .000 ft without a parachute
I realize it’s a joke but terminal velocity for people is around 120mph. Takes about six seconds to get there. A motorcycle might go a bit faster but not much. Aerodynamic drag is a bear.
We tested a lot of thing in free fall. Got into an argument about bullets hitting the ground at the same speed as when shot out of a gun. In free fall we released a few examples and they floated (fell at a lower speed).
Once the engine is sorted its time for aerodynamics.
____________
Randy
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rtbain
Expert Class
old, fat and slow
Posts: 244
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posted February 27, 2010 07:11 PM
quote:
Randle, make a few 1/4 passes and let us see the tickets.
I would be happy to but it would not do the bike justice. I absolutely suck at 1/4 mile. Shoot I am a newbie at mile racing and not much better there. The mile numbers will not accurately reflect what the build is capable of. I am still learning how to tune using the data logging system.
Remember I’m the guy who only made 169mph at my first event. I was hitting 5th gear shift point at the mile traps. I should do much better now that I know the drill but using my performance to judge the build would not be relevant.
I hope to have DynoJet charts posted soon after the Texas Mile.
____________
Randy
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted February 27, 2010 07:35 PM
quote:
quote:
Randle, make a few 1/4 passes and let us see the tickets.
I would be happy to but it would not do the bike justice. I absolutely suck at 1/4 mile. Shoot I am a newbie at mile racing and not much better there. The mile numbers will not accurately reflect what the build is capable of. I am still learning how to tune using the data logging system.
Remember I’m the guy who only made 169mph at my first event. I was hitting 5th gear shift point at the mile traps. I should do much better now that I know the drill but using my performance to judge the build would not be relevant.
I hope to have DynoJet charts posted soon after the Texas Mile.
Randle I see your are in TX , we have a few members in TX that drag race , Wheely i'm sure would love to make a few 1/4 mile passes on your bike ...We all could learn alot from the 1/4 miles numbers.. Wheely has some good skills and would be a good pick to jocky your bike ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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