zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted December 13, 2009 06:42 PM
New pc with flat spot
For the new guys like myself on this site that want to do some mild mods on there 14 you may want to consider something with the cost.after i pulled the flys installed the block off plates and removed the smog I ordered a muzzy pc.I told muzzy about the mods and they said they would program the box.Once installed I took it for a ride and noticed a big flat spot or hesitation under 3 gs. So off to the dyno I will go.You should consider that it will cost you about 350.00 to finish the job.We have a reputable dyno shop and I was told to be careful with the pc.if you dont know what your doing that some 14s didnt live long after the pc was installed.I had this problem on a harley that blew up with a new pc.Just my thoughts on the subject. no two 14s run exactly the same so dyno your own map. I would say if your going to do the mods get your bike on the dyno with someone that really know his stuff and spend the extra cash to do it right.
  
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Bawls
Needs a job
re-learning to ride
Posts: 2701
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posted December 13, 2009 06:54 PM
hrm... i run a brocks exhaust and map and everything is spot on.
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Best 60ft: 1.42
Best 1/8th: 5.97
Best 1/8th MPH: 119
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dcjens
Pro
Wet side of Washington
Posts: 1059
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posted December 13, 2009 07:15 PM
It takes awhile to find a muzzy map that works well sigh Brock's by next season
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Black 06
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted December 13, 2009 07:23 PM
 Edited By: smokinZX14 on 14 Dec 2009 03:24
Funny i just ran 4 different zx14s on my dyno they all had Brocks pipe and Brocks map ... Guess what ? They all had the Same HP and TQ ...
Never heard of a zx14 blowing up because of a P/C .. If a tuner told me that i think i find another tuner ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted December 13, 2009 07:26 PM
+1 even with the Muzzy map I don't see a 14 blowing up.
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makenna
Expert Class
Posts: 355
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posted December 13, 2009 07:31 PM
I have the same issue with my PCIII, I have a huge flat spot at 25oo RPM. The bike is really jerky when you hit it. It just leaps forward and then dies, like surging but worse. I am going to dry a different map in the Spring to se if that corrects it and if it doesn't I am just going to sell the PC and go back to stock. I got the PC so I could pull the flies, but if it is going to be that bad I won't bother pulling them and will stay stock.
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English is the only language that matters.
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Bawls
Needs a job
re-learning to ride
Posts: 2701
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posted December 13, 2009 07:36 PM
my bike didn't even do that when i had the flies pulled with no pc3 for 10k miles.
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Best 60ft: 1.42
Best 1/8th: 5.97
Best 1/8th MPH: 119
Brockland Police Badge # 001
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted December 13, 2009 07:38 PM
Sounds like he grounded it to the coolant tank ...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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eklipse636
Needs a life
ZX-14
Posts: 6046
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posted December 13, 2009 07:44 PM
I have to agree with finding another tuner. Your right, no 2 zx14's are the same, BUT there's not that big of a difference. Maybe you need to get your 14 equipped with brocks stuff, because he dosent have that problem. And if you were to have any type of problem they are johnny on the spot about helping!
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Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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Newbusa
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted December 13, 2009 07:50 PM
quote:
Sounds like he grounded it to the coolant tank ...
Yup! Same thing happened to me when i grounded to the coolant tank.
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted December 13, 2009 08:04 PM
Hm guess I was lucky as that is where bith my 14s where grounded with no issues.
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Bawls
Needs a job
re-learning to ride
Posts: 2701
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posted December 13, 2009 08:08 PM
that's where mine is grounded and no issues thus far. i just always keep the tools to fix it with me in case it starts loosening up. One of these days i'll extend the ground wire.
or not... i'm pretty lazy lol.
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Best 60ft: 1.42
Best 1/8th: 5.97
Best 1/8th MPH: 119
Brockland Police Badge # 001
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makenna
Expert Class
Posts: 355
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posted December 13, 2009 08:55 PM
Nope, not grounded to the coolant tank, ran it right to the negative battery terminal
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English is the only language that matters.
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zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted December 14, 2009 10:39 AM
Guys this tuner knows his stuff trust me on that.What he said is that he has seen more than one 14 not make it to 20k because the pc was not tuned properly.Im sure most will work fine.My only point is that its still best to dyno the bike after the new pc to get the best performance posible.many on this site (not all) have had some trouble with there pc.My personal view is that its best to spend the extra money and get it dynoed.
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zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted December 14, 2009 10:49 AM
I guess if you belive smokin that after 4 dyno pulls with four diffrent bikes than it dosent happen and its never a problem.I wonder why sometimes when a 14 owner post a problem that he has there are alway a few that want to reply with ( never had that problem or it not an issue ) ? as if hes lying about his issue lol.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted December 14, 2009 11:44 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 14 Dec 2009 19:45
It sounds like a poor map...nothing more, nothing less. It's not the pc that is the problem...it's the data that has been loaded into it.
I think Smokin's point was that the Brock maps are very good. It is pretty much accepted that the supplied Muzzy maps are not as finely tuned as those that Brock provides.
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zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted December 14, 2009 01:35 PM
Thanks shane I agree.I would have to admit that I would have rather got my pc from brocks had I to do this over again.The boys at muzzys were not much help and pretty much shut me down when I asked them about the problem..For those that are looking for a pc I would recommend brocks.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted December 14, 2009 01:39 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 14 Dec 2009 21:40
quote:
Thanks shane I agree.I would have to admit that I would have rather got my pc from brocks had I to do this over again.The boys at muzzys were not much help and pretty much shut me down when I asked them about the problem..For those that are looking for a pc I would recommend brocks.
Also, just as an FYI...Brock's only supplies owners of a Brock's pipe with the custom maps. So, that is why people will often say to buy a Brock's pipe...since the map support is very good.
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted December 14, 2009 02:16 PM
OP put Harley and ZX14 in same post. Fascinating.
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted December 14, 2009 03:21 PM
quote:
I guess if you belive smokin that after 4 dyno pulls with four diffrent bikes than it dosent happen and its never a problem.I wonder why sometimes when a 14 owner post a problem that he has there are alway a few that want to reply with ( never had that problem or it not an issue ) ? as if hes lying about his issue lol.
Didn't say you were lying ..But your tuner may not be telling the truth ...Anyway he got you to spend 350 bucks, great sales tool to tell you a zx14 will not make 20k with the wrong map .. ... Get my point ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted December 14, 2009 03:36 PM
I didnt spend the 350 yet.I simply stated that is what its going to cost.as shane stated without the pipes you cant get the good map? if you know so much about these maps then why do you need to dyno 4 diffrent bikes? why not just install the program in the pc and call it a day? get my point, its still best to have the bike on a dyno and thats just my opinion.as I stated before i had a harley torch both pistons because of a bad map.obviously the 14s not a harley and though i have no proof I belive a bad map could have adverse affects on the top end.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted December 14, 2009 04:00 PM
quote:
I didnt spend the 350 yet.I simply stated that is what its going to cost.as shane stated without the pipes you cant get the good map? if you know so much about these maps then why do you need to dyno 4 diffrent bikes? why not just install the program in the pc and call it a day? get my point, its still best to have the bike on a dyno and thats just my opinion.as I stated before i had a harley torch both pistons because of a bad map.obviously the 14s not a harley and though i have no proof I belive a bad map could have adverse affects on the top end.
I had the 4 bikes in my shop for other items to repair not to dyno them .. I tossed them on the dyno for my own info .. I did it for free , NO charge to the owners .. I know for a fact that if i use a Brocks map no adjustments will be needed .. Trust me they are that good ... I install a lot of brocks pipes and maps and i don't need to check them , just toss them in and go ...Brock spent 100s of hours on the dyno and 100s of passes down the 1/4 mile as well as standing mile runs to make maps for the zx14 .. They are the best maps , end of story ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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bruno nadeau
Expert Class
Posts: 174
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posted December 14, 2009 04:31 PM
i got exactly the same problem on my 06= bad map to lean below 3000 and50% throttle lot of - in the map.i almost fix it by removing all the - in the map.i ask this question below in a general tuning forum you can read the question and the answer.it is just my opinion but i think that the 14 (almost stock) is not to sensitive to AFR until it is not to lean.
QUESTION
i made some test today and i got some surprising numbers.bike zx14 09se KN air filter no flys yosh R77 full.these 2 run were made at the same place 5 minutes between and the road is going up a little.the 2 run were take in the log well after the throttle was full.run 1:my motty was set to 12,9 afr but the map was not completty built i get number from 12.8 to 13,1 on the log(PC5 autotune recommande 13,2 to 13 target afr at full throttle, i am close) and from 70 to 150 MPH it take 7,616 seconds in 4 gear.run 2 same as above but no map at all,afr was betwenn 13 to 11,9,it take 7,744 seconds difference is.128 seconds to gain 80 mph.in my mind there is no difference.i double check it with another logger(lm2 inovate)about the same result .rpm went from 4920 to10300.i was thinking that AFR was more important than that.(i made the same test in 3 gear less difference in time).what do you think.thank
ANSWER
Engines with sufficient vaporization and burn efficiency don't need to run 12.8 AFR. When presented with an engine that goes the same at different AFR's its indicative of good vaporization and homogenization of the charge. I have seen on engine dynos an engine make exactly the same HP and torque at all AFR's tested from 14.2 to 12.6. Thats proper testing with timing alterations, cam timing alterations in between etc. All that extra fuel at the richer AFR's did was waste fuel
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bruno nadeau
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zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted December 14, 2009 04:53 PM
As I stated if I had this to do over again I would buy the brocks box.All the same its about 350 or so to do a dyno pull.Unless you have a friend.
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eklipse636
Needs a life
ZX-14
Posts: 6046
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posted December 14, 2009 06:26 PM
quote:
As I stated if I had this to do over again I would buy the brocks box.All the same its about 350 or so to do a dyno pull.Unless you have a friend.
You do understand your not buying a special "brocks box" or "muzzy box", right? Your buying the same pcIII or pcv as everyone for the exception the map that is downloaded in it. If you buy his exhaust you can download any of his maps.
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Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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