NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted September 16, 2009 10:41 AM
Cycle Logic Turbo zx14 Help?
I have a Cycle logic turbo on a zx14.
Ran 4 lbs with STOCK motor on pump gas and everything was great.
Tried 8 lbs on pump gas and it lasted 3 passes before it ate 2 pistons. Got it back together with JE 9.5:1 pistons and Carpenter valve springs. With 4 lbs of boost it's slower than my stock motor before the turbo in the 1/4.
Dave at CL says I need about 8lbs to get back where I was with 4lbs on stock compression, but I don't have a good starter map and I'm
afraid ($$$$$ )to try 8lbs again without some guidance.
I notice than bike requires ALOT more fuel at lower
rpm to get the idle AFR down. I'm confussed why low compression piston need so much more fuel.
I want to address any problems before I start pushing it for a tune.
I've heard this is a small turbo and it pushes hot air at high boost.
what is high boost for this turbo?
What is this setup good for HP or BOOST?
Since I ride more than I race I'm most interested in a safe pump gas
setup, but I'd like C16 advice for track days also.
If anyone have any advise or recommendations on this setup
I'd appreciate it. Keep it simple this is my fisrt turbo.
P.s. not getting a bigger turbo at this time.
  
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sj1400
Novice Class
Posts: 96
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posted September 16, 2009 11:46 AM
 Edited By: sj1400 on 16 Sep 2009 19:48
Did you pull any timing ??
The TUNE is crucial - don't do anything till you get a good map. I learned the hard way and getting her redone.. Nothing but a pure nightmare since June due to poor mapping.
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08green
Expert Class
Posts: 188
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posted September 16, 2009 12:50 PM
Sounds like you know what to do already.
DynoTune the bike for c16 AND timing pulled for track days..turn it up and have fun!! I personally would never run a turbo bike on pump gas at any boost level..but thats me..
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2004 ZX10
2008 ZX14
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted September 16, 2009 01:15 PM
On jesses bike ( same turbo as yours ) We ran 5 PSI on pump gas and it was fine ....On 10 psi we only ran C16 ..NO timing pulled .. It hit 15 pounds( over 300 hp ) a few times by mistake on C16 with no problems ... All this was with the stock motor ..We beat this motor hard and never had a problem ... The same motor is in Jesse bike now without a turbo and runs just as it did new ..
If you have 9.5.1 pistons it's going to be a dog on pump gas with low boost ...
My zrx1200 with a turbo i was running 10.25.1 pistons with 10 psi on the street with no problems BUT i kept it at 11.2.1 Air fuel ratio on boost .. You have to run them Fat fat fat to make them live .. The extra fuel acts as a coolant and keeps you from burnning a piston ..
If it was me i would have it tunning for pump gas at 11.2 on boost and keep the boost under 8 pounds ...
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Bad in Black
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted September 16, 2009 04:03 PM
quote:
I have a Cycle logic turbo on a zx14.
Ran 4 lbs with STOCK motor on pump gas and everything was great.
Tried 8 lbs on pump gas and it lasted 3 passes before it ate 2 pistons. Got it back together with JE 9.5:1 pistons and Carpenter valve springs. With 4 lbs of boost it's slower than my stock motor before the turbo in the 1/4.
Dave at CL says I need about 8lbs to get back where I was with 4lbs on stock compression, but I don't have a good starter map and I'm
afraid ($$$$$ )to try 8lbs again without some guidance.
I notice than bike requires ALOT more fuel at lower
rpm to get the idle AFR down. I'm confussed why low compression piston need so much more fuel.
I want to address any problems before I start pushing it for a tune.
I've heard this is a small turbo and it pushes hot air at high boost.
what is high boost for this turbo?
What is this setup good for HP or BOOST?
Since I ride more than I race I'm most interested in a safe pump gas
setup, but I'd like C16 advice for track days also.
If anyone have any advise or recommendations on this setup
I'd appreciate it. Keep it simple this is my fisrt turbo.
P.s. not getting a bigger turbo at this time.
Were you running one of Daves maps or a custom map? Just wondering, because I'm going to be running one of his maps on my turbo 14 with his kit.....I'm just going to datalog and fine tune where needed.........................hopefully lol. And how did you get his kit down to 4lbs of boost? My turbo came with an 8 lb actuator with no adjustments. I'd like to be able to drop the boost abit myself.
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted September 16, 2009 08:11 PM
This is Jesse's old kit that Smokin and Jesse had custom built with wastegate for a controller. I'd be very careful with 8lbs on pump gas. Dave says 6lbs with stock compression and pump gas. I can say 8 didn't work for me! Most of the street kits say 6.
Yes Dave's map and I verified static fuel pressure and rasing rate before I hit the track.
Smokin you ran C16 and 15lbs on stock compression?
If I run 15 lbs that should be about the same HP your 10 lbs on stock comp.
That could be my tack setup.
I'd have to run 19 to equal your 15, don't think I want to try that without the winning lottery ticket in my hand.
Everyone says you can run more boost with lower compression pistons, but I have yet to hear any real numbers. How much more boost? What's the purpose of running more boost to get the same HP?
Thanks guys keep the information coming.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted September 16, 2009 08:54 PM
quote:
This is Jesse's old kit that Smokin and Jesse had custom built with wastegate for a controller. I'd be very careful with 8lbs on pump gas. Dave says 6lbs with stock compression and pump gas. I can say 8 didn't work for me! Most of the street kits say 6.
Yes Dave's map and I verified static fuel pressure and rasing rate before I hit the track.
Smokin you ran C16 and 15lbs on stock compression?
If I run 15 lbs that should be about the same HP your 10 lbs on stock comp.
That could be my tack setup.
I'd have to run 19 to equal your 15, don't think I want to try that without the winning lottery ticket in my hand.
Everyone says you can run more boost with lower compression pistons, but I have yet to hear any real numbers. How much more boost? What's the purpose of running more boost to get the same HP?
Thanks guys keep the information coming.
The lowest boost we could get on Jesses setup was 5 pounds of boost using the 3 1/2 pound spring ...Did you get all the springs from Jesse ?
Yes we hit 15 pounds of boost on C16 on the dyno, more than once ...lol.. We used the 3 1/2 pound spring to come out of the hole then used the controller to bump the boost up to 10 PSI down the track .. I think Jesse ran some 110 with no problems at 10 PSI ..
If this was going to be a street bike and once in a while track bike i would have left the compression stock and set the bike up for 5 or 6 PSI and called it a day .. That should have been around 250 HP if i remember right ..But using 9.5.1 pistons it would be much less hp ..9.5.1 pistons on the street just kills the bottom end power ... You are kind of in a rock and a hard spot ...Either turn the boost up to 10 psi and run race gas or turn the boost down to 5 or 6 psi and run 93 pump gas .. Even with 5 or 6 psi on pump gas i wouldn't hold the throttle wide open for more than a 1/4 mile at a time .. If you are going to run top end i would at least run 110 .... The trick to running boost and pump gas is to run it way fat , 11.2.1 A/F on boost... With race gas C16 you can run 12.1 A/F
I can tell you this with 9.5.1 pistons there is a zx14 running 7.90s or better on Q16 fuel @ 18 to 20 pounds of boost .. It leaves the line at 9 or 10 psi and ramps up down track ...They tried more boost but it would pop up in a wheely at the 1000 foot mark ...Turbo set ups are tricky , most burn up a few pistons till they get a good tune .. That is why i made Jesse run c16 and ran it real real fat ....I burned up more pistons than i care to remember back in the day , so i'm very carefull these days ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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kaw now
Expert Class
Posts: 446
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posted September 16, 2009 11:32 PM
My 750 turbo ran 10.75 lbs boost advertised. I ran a analog boost gauge and I think it was close. Pump gas but I will say you must run rich like he said. One time I was doing a bunch of high speed runs and melted the pistons but I had it slightly modified for freer breathing and no fuel adjustments. I would think 10 or so lbs boost should do it with low comp pistons as the 750 turbo had.
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted September 17, 2009 04:09 AM
Edited By: NINJA12 on 17 Sep 2009 12:11
No I didn't get any extra springs from Jesse,I called him last month he didn't have any others springs.
If I loose 4 lbs of boost to low compression, am I still limited to 6 lbs total on pump or would my 10lbs still be equivalent to stock 6 lbs for a pump tune?
The bottom end power is not a problem on the street. I'm more of a cruiser in town.
That 7.90 turbo wouldn't be jones perfromance would it?
Thanks smokin and Kaw now.
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