wrongway
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posted September 05, 2009 10:33 AM
Flex fuel ZX14 project finished
After testing E85 on the race bike , I decided to fix up the street bike. To make it flex fuel , I used a PC5 and a map switch. Nothing on the fuel system has been changed except for the power commander. The map switch allows to switch between maps for E85 and pump gas so there is no need to panic if E85 isn't available.
There are some limitations, like not being able to autotune and store 2 different maps at the same time. The autotune uses the 2nd map position to store the new trim settings. There is only 1 map switch and it is used for both autotune or the map selection.
I am not sure why dynojet says a PC5 isn't supported on older models, but it works fine on the '07. The autotune feature is OK and might be needed to make a map for winter blends, when the ethanol goes from 85% to 70%.
why would anyone do this ?
E85 is cheaper
E85 make more midrange power
E85 runs cooler
E85 cleans your injectors
I guess being green is ok too :-)
If you have a power commander already , there is no real cost to do the conversion.
Roy
  
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salsa1
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posted September 05, 2009 10:38 AM
wht kinda power curve results by using E85
MIDRANGE WILL MAKE THE BIKE ACTUALLY MOREW USABLE IN THE DTREETS...JUST CURIOUS WHAT ABOUT POWER TOP??
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Salsa1
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted September 05, 2009 11:32 AM
That's cool man! I'veheard good stuff about E85 . Too bad Southern california don't have any. How much is E85?
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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wrongway
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posted September 05, 2009 01:17 PM
quote:
That's cool man! I'veheard good stuff about E85 . Too bad Southern california don't have any. How much is E85?
I pay $2.25 a gallon here in NC. it is less than $2.00 in most other places.
http://e85prices.com/california.html
looks like there are stations out there,, prices between $2.30 and $2.50 a gallon.
Roy
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted September 05, 2009 01:38 PM
Interesting! About 40 cents cheaper than the pump gas here. Gonna be thinking about it!
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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Shane661
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posted September 05, 2009 01:58 PM
It's cheap...but you burn about 30%+ more of it, I believe...
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wrongway
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posted September 05, 2009 02:01 PM
if you click on the 2nd tab on that page(state stations), you will get a full list of the stations, even if no one has posted in on the prices.
I think it is funny that with all the tree huggers that live in california, there are very few flex fuel stations... They must just like to talk about it :-)
Roy
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted September 05, 2009 02:49 PM
Yup for sure ! Tree huggers here don't want to cut the trees down so we burn down , they don't want us to use gas ,but there's little done about it again! They don't even want us to klll the birds off at the airports cause there "must be a better way" . So instead let's keep them around so they can keep taking out 747's full of people.... Geez .
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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dogg24
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posted September 05, 2009 06:31 PM
I know in my truck if I use e85 I get less gas mileage than unleaded but from what I've read you also get more horsepower than unleaded at the same time.
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2012 ZX14R SE, Streetmeg, PCV
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Shane661
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posted September 06, 2009 06:03 AM
If you are running out of fuel and have to switch to pump, are the fuels compatable? I mean will they "mix" in the tank? I wonder just how lean it will then run until the mix is out?
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wrongway
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posted September 06, 2009 06:46 AM
of course they are compatable ... e85 is 15% gasoline.
If you are down to the fuel warning , you are at a gallon or under. even if you didnt ride any further , that would be less than 20% of a full tank. Hi test has 10% ethanol , so if you used regular for the first tank after the switchover , you would only be a few percent over what 93 octane would have been.
And if you went 10 or 20 miles after the fuel warning , you would end up at the same level as 93 octane.
Roy
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Shane661
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posted September 06, 2009 06:55 AM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 6 Sep 2009 15:16
It sounds like it would be mixing about 10% more Ethanol over whatever fuel you throw in there? Is that about right?
The only reason I ask, is that you might want to make your pump map a hair on the rich side if you are switching back and forth all of the time. What do you think?
I also think I may be getting some stratificaton issues with mixing MR9 and pump (even small amounts), so I am curious about mixing of fuels.
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wrongway
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posted September 06, 2009 08:28 AM
10% or less, and I run on the rich side all the time. I dont think it would make a difference unless you had a map set up for 14.7 afr :-)
as for the seperation .. you can do the same test that I do for E85. mix the 2 fuels in a graduated cylinder and shake it up. let it sit for 15 min and look for a line for where the fuel seperates ( if any ). Since MR9 is mostly gasoline , I am not sure you will see anything.
with e85 , you add some water and that bonds with the ethanol. This causes the gas to seperate and you can measure the amout of gas in the E85. Winter blends have 30% gas for cold starting , so it is really E70. that is why pumps state that the minimum ethanol content is 70 % , and min octane is 105. Summer blends have an octane rating at 112.
Roy
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted September 06, 2009 10:07 AM
Sounds like switchable maps are in order for this setup.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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wrongway
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posted September 06, 2009 01:05 PM
quote:
Sounds like switchable maps are in order for this setup.
yep , that is the reason I got a PC5. it has that feature built in ...
the PC5 fixes alot of the stuff I didn't like about the PC3.
Roy
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1badzx12r
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posted September 07, 2009 05:07 AM
let me know if you find a orange residue covering your throttle bodies after 500 miles of use ..
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wrongway
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posted September 07, 2009 05:30 AM
ok , I have 200 on it already... what would the residue be from ?
Roy
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wrongway
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posted September 08, 2009 04:35 AM
After check the fuel mileage with E85 , it is around 25 mpg. I was trying not to race it too much so I could get a better average. I think I need to lean up the low throttle settings and just set it to 40% int he 2% and 5% throttle positions.
It is hard to tell what the autotune is doing without having a datalog to go with it . I am loosing confidence in it for that part of the mapping.
Roy
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted September 08, 2009 09:45 AM
quote:
After check the fuel mileage with E85 , it is around 25 mpg. I was trying not to race it too much so I could get a better average. I think I need to lean up the low throttle settings and just set it to 40% int he 2% and 5% throttle positions.
It is hard to tell what the autotune is doing without having a datalog to go with it . I am loosing confidence in it for that part of the mapping.
Roy
Wow 25mpg huh? That's what i get now if i ride like the bike pretty hard , if i ride it like it was designed to it would be even lower than that! With E85 i'd prolly get like 10mpg riding the wyay i do lol!
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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wrongway
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posted September 08, 2009 12:20 PM
quote:
Wow 25mpg huh? That's what i get now if i ride like the bike pretty hard , if i ride it like it was designed to it would be even lower than that! With E85 i'd prolly get like 10mpg riding the wyay i do lol!
here is a quick clip of the stock bike on E85
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGkLxSfVaQ4
Roy
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mathews
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posted September 08, 2009 12:54 PM
I have a PCV on my 07 GSXR1000.Does the 02 sensor still work o.k. with e85?
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SteveWFL
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posted September 08, 2009 01:04 PM
man I applaud your effort in making this happen
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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wrongway
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posted September 08, 2009 01:16 PM
quote:
I have a PCV on my 07 GSXR1000.Does the 02 sensor still work o.k. with e85?
yes, it is a lambda sensor , just calibrated for gasoline. use a target afr of 12.3-12.8
Roy
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justoyz2
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Justoyz Racing
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posted September 11, 2009 03:39 AM
Guys,
When you use an oxygenated fuel more fuel is required. You will make additional power if you are mapped for the fuel. If you are not mapped your mileage and performance will decrease.
More importantly did I read that you can use the pc5 on 07 models? Was it a direct connect?
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2012 zx14R-blue,2012 zx14R-black, 2014 zx14Trbo, 2011 zx10R, 2007 zx10 Turbo.....
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wrongway
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posted September 14, 2009 11:25 AM
quote:
Guys,
When you use an oxygenated fuel more fuel is required. You will make additional power if you are mapped for the fuel. If you are not mapped your mileage and performance will decrease.
More importantly did I read that you can use the pc5 on 07 models? Was it a direct connect?
yes , the PC5 went right on , no issues. I used the autotune feature with that also.
Roy
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