Rook
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Posts: 1125
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posted August 11, 2010 09:47 AM
scraping exhaust, Adjusting Sag
I have scraped my exhaust in cornering and have decided to have a look at the suspension settings. I have a good idea of how to set sag from this vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK3flKxf41U&feature=related
The video recommends 30 - 35 mm sag for rear suspension and street riding. The vid was for the '09 R-6. Is this ideal rear sag of 30 - 35mm going to apply to the 14 as well?
If I do not own a wheel chock, can I use my Pit Bull Spool stand and Pit Bull fork stand?
  
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Rook
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posted August 11, 2010 01:33 PM
bump! i know you guys are a bunch of drag racers but someone must know something about sag.
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Quarter Pounder
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with Cheese
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posted August 11, 2010 01:50 PM
 Edited By: Quarter Pounder on 11 Aug 2010 21:53
man, that is a LOT of rear sag...I typically set mine around 10-15mm, the front is more like 20-30mm.
You need at least two other people to help you. You'll need them to lift the bike so that the shock or forks completly top out on the stroke. If you can't do that, you can't figure your sag. You need to know where the bike sits statically (without rider) and with rider on board in full gear.
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SWB 2008 ZX-14
9.19 @ 151
5.98 @ 123
1.53 60'
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Rook
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Posts: 1125
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posted August 11, 2010 02:43 PM
Perhaps the 30-35 mm sag seems excessive because Dave Moss does not recommend fully topping out the suspension for taking the measurement. He lifts on the tail without rider for shock measurement but he specifies that it is not to be totally topped out. Then he presses down on the rear and allows the suspension settle with the rider seated on the bike. I'm starting to think there are different approaches to discerning sag.
I have a swingarm pivot stand that will allow the rear suspension to open to max as it would with a couple people lifting. Also a steering pivot stand that takes all weight off forks. A second guy will be necessary to measure when I am on the bike.
Well, thanks Quarter Pounder. Damn. Looks like this is going to take some more investigation. Any one with more tips or videos or personal experience, please post away.
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Rook
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posted August 11, 2010 02:50 PM
Edited By: Rook on 11 Aug 2010 23:01
These are pics of the scrapes which occurred at the front near oil drain plug (very slight scrape in ceramic) and back where the pipe curves up into the muffler (we have metal ground away there). The pipe is a Tsukigi Cannon. I corner very hard when sport riding on the street but I am by no means a pro. I can't believe this bike is being leaned to its max with me riding. I have just started to ware the rear tire to the edge which is something others claim to do without scraping hard parts. I'm ~200lbs.
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Quarter Pounder
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posted August 11, 2010 02:59 PM
Edited By: Quarter Pounder on 11 Aug 2010 23:00
how can you determine the amount of sag without knowing where the top of the stroke is? It's a guessing game if you don't know. Never heard of doing that way at all and can't say I'd recommend it period.
With your scrapes that far forward, you are looking at a front end issue, not rear. .02
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SWB 2008 ZX-14
9.19 @ 151
5.98 @ 123
1.53 60'
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Rook
Pro
Posts: 1125
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posted August 11, 2010 03:09 PM
^^Zakly what I was thinking on the suspension top out. Starting to see why suspension tuning is considered such a mystical art. I'm sure Dave Moss' procedure works for Dave Moss but kinda hard to teach others that in a video where we want to get our suspension set on our bike rather than become an expert suspension tuner.
I plan to check/adjust both front and rear but I'm starting with the rear to keep posting less complicated, hopefully.
BTW, the front suspension has been tightened up twice because I was bottomming on the bigger bumps.. seems to work well for commuting/touring but sport riding has gotten more extreme in the last year.
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Flame On
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Fuel Air & Spark
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posted August 11, 2010 03:28 PM
Edited By: Flame On on 12 Aug 2010 01:15
Those rebound adjustments are always needing adjust for the differnt style of riding I do. Sage I had set with the standerd MM adjustment.
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77 RD 400
80 GS1000 GT
06 ZX14
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted August 11, 2010 03:42 PM
Edited By: dubious on 11 Aug 2010 23:44
The sag is specific for each bike, to balance the suspension, and to keep your steering head angle specific to your needs for handling.
The spring rates are too soft for your weight. The 14 is sprung for a 140lb rider.
Personally I found not only was it undersprung but under dampened with way too much wallow and suspension movement just from throttle inputs.
For example through experimenting, I had lowered the rear 2 " and the front only 1 inch ( to keep front end down) and the bike did not turn as well and also it caused the rear to push too much, since the rear had more weight and the front was unweighted, this was very noticable when on the throttle and turning.
I would check out race techs specs for spring rates, and also make a call and ask them what sag you should be seeking.
I know that the stock springs will have to be tightened right up, to keep the sag in check, and to keep the bike from blowing through the travel and dragging parts like yours has already.
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Rook
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posted August 11, 2010 07:46 PM
Thanks, Dub. I will check with race tech eventhough I haven't a clue what that is! I know nothing about what I am getting into but I guess I will learn. I probably will start with the hardest preload I can use on the stock suspension. I don't see putting up the doe to revalve or buy aftermarket suspensions. I would only do that if i were sure the bike was going to be around a very long time.
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eklipse636
Needs a life
ZX-14
Posts: 6046
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posted August 12, 2010 05:17 AM
I have a racetech spring. I don't know their number but google them and they are very helpful over the phone.
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Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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RACNRAY
Expert Class
FAST OLD GUY
Posts: 178
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posted August 12, 2010 06:47 AM
Here at my shop we have done HUNDREDS of suspension set-ups. For the most part we do use the 30-35 mm sag for street skoots. If a customer is not a hard charger we may go up to 38mm. The 14's also like to have the front end lowered (tubes raised) bout 5-10mm to sharpen the steering. Lowering the front end makes it even more important to have the correct sag and/or springs rates. The 14 like all other skoots respons very well to gettin the suspension set-up properly for the rider's weight and ridin style.
I have found that some of the aftermarket pipes hang too low in some areas, compromising ground clearance. With the street meg on my 2006 it hung low enuff in some areas thet i had some significant grinding and denting. I just called them war wounds!!
RACNRAY
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no chicken strips on this south florida boy's skoots!!
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