QWICK
Expert Class
Posts: 413
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posted August 26, 2009 03:10 PM
Hey Lyle, looks like the pm service is down. Shoot me an email with your email address when you get a chance, I'm needing some North of the Border assistance.
Thanks
knotonduty@charter.net
  
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted August 27, 2009 06:25 AM
quote:
I'm pretty sure the zx14 kills ignitions not fuel at the 186 speed limit,
I saw the bike go rich on the dyno. I think its some type of random kill
because the chart was not smooth.
Yes the limiter can be defeated with a speedhealer
GO RIDGE GO!!!!!!
BTW what, approximately, was the RPM you had in your data when the 186 limiter kicked in?
I calculated 9830. Just wonder how close that was to an observed rpm
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Halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted August 27, 2009 08:49 AM
 Edited By: Halvefast on 27 Aug 2009 16:51
Ridge- when you say observed do you mean what the tach actually read or what true rpm was? I have found most of the 14 tachs are off by 400-500rpm. Plus the speedo is off by 8mph+ @ 80mph (actual is 72mph in 6th gear @ 4000rpm on tach).
My tach read 11500 on the dyno which showed 11100 as limiter kicking in.
Don't know if any of this answered your question, or help
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted August 27, 2009 09:22 AM
I'm looking for as precise a number as possible. Something from a data logger or dyno equipment.
As I said just looking at the tire diameter and gear ratios I came up with 9,830 but I have also been told 10,200 from a dyno operator.
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted August 27, 2009 11:53 AM
Ridge I'm not sure it been almost a year ago.
The bike trapped 155 with 17/43 gearing.
I'm pretty sure it hit the limiter because it trapped the same with 4psi and 8 psi.
ET was quicker but same MPH.
Hope that helps.
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted September 01, 2009 04:18 PM
Well I'm pretty sure I figured out the speed limiter. I was over complicating it. I'm so used to looking at all the code from a Denso perspective where the speed limiter is RPM based that I was fixated on converting the speed pulses to an RPM.
Guess what the raw decimal map value is when the speed limiter kicks in...299. Considering the limiter is supposed to keep the bike from going over 300 km/H going the long way around to find a map value of 299 made me slap myself upside the head.
Gee, a speed limit map in km/H units instead of rpm in 6th gear units. Duh.
Anyway I flashed an ECU with +800 rpm limiters and speed set to 300mph and returned it to Adam's Performance in NC to test. I'm 99% sure I got it figured out but until some one actually throws it on a bike I won't know for sure.
Keep your fingers crossed.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 01, 2009 04:23 PM
quote:
Well I'm pretty sure I figured out the speed limiter. I was over complicating it. I'm so used to looking at all the code from a Denso perspective where the speed limiter is RPM based that I was fixated on converting the speed pulses to an RPM.
Guess what the raw decimal map value is when the speed limiter kicks in...299. Considering the limiter is supposed to keep the bike from going over 300 km/H going the long way around to find a map value of 299 made me slap myself upside the head.
Gee, a speed limit map in km/H units instead of rpm in 6th gear units. Duh.
Anyway I flashed an ECU with +800 rpm limiters and speed set to 300mph and returned it to Adam's Performance in NC to test. I'm 99% sure I got it figured out but until some one actually throws it on a bike I won't know for sure.
Keep your fingers crossed.
That is awesome. Can't wait to hear the outcome!
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ZX11D
Zone Head
Internet Police
Posts: 674
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posted September 01, 2009 04:45 PM
Edited By: ZX11D on 2 Sep 2009 00:46
Ridge, you are awesome. Getting close. Excellent. 
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'94 ZX-11
'07 ZX-14
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pissear
Expert Class
Professional Cockis Slap Peer
Posts: 309
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posted September 02, 2009 12:02 PM
quote:
I'm 99% sure I got it figured out but until some one actually throws it on a bike I won't know for sure.
Takes 2 toggle steps forward...
Your time/product is worth something. Name your price. I would not hesitate to burn out my ECU if that's what it takes for a little R&D advance. My sub actuator sits on the outside of the bike and that dash is code free. I can set 5 codes on-the-fly, 2 more if I pull over; which says I am past the limiter breach.
I am more interested watching the map change grid numbers flipping a toggle switch [in real time] viewing how the fuel/timing values face off on that software you are looking at.
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted September 03, 2009 02:33 PM
quote:
...Anyway I flashed an ECU with +800 rpm limiters and speed set to 300mph and returned it to Adam's Performance in NC to test. I'm 99% sure I got it figured out but until some one actually throws it on a bike I won't know for sure...
Heard back this morning from the shop. The bike rev'd 800 rpm higher and they got it up to 194mph. 
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 03, 2009 02:34 PM
quote:
quote:
...Anyway I flashed an ECU with +800 rpm limiters and speed set to 300mph and returned it to Adam's Performance in NC to test. I'm 99% sure I got it figured out but until some one actually throws it on a bike I won't know for sure...
Heard back this morning from the shop. The bike rev'd 800 rpm higher and they got it up to 194mph.
AWESOME!!!!
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted September 03, 2009 03:43 PM
Yes awesome
Have you made any of the other ECU's for turbo applications, can we do this with the zx14?
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted September 03, 2009 04:26 PM
quote:
Yes awesome
Have you made any of the other ECU's for turbo applications, can we do this with the zx14?
Not yet but I'm working on it.
I'm going to be helping a guy who is in the process of building a 500hp Gen 1 Turbo Busa that he wants to run using only a re-flashed stock ECU.
What I have done so far is hack the 2009 Arctic Cat Z1 Turbo snowmobile which uses a 1080cc Suzuki twin with an OEM turbo set up. Having access to a software example of how the manufacturer implemented a stock turbo setup is going to be a big help in designing software for an aftermarket kit.
The GenI Busa, the Z1 and the early zx-14 all use the same CPU so any code developed for the Busa could be used with a little modification on the 14. The work PetriK is doing with the GenII Turbo Busas really shows the possibilities for aftermarket turbo control using the stock ECU
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted September 03, 2009 07:58 PM
Edited By: dubious on 4 Sep 2009 04:06
Cool,
Thanks much for your interest and time BTW.
substituting a 3 bar map sensor for the IAP sensor and widening the range of the IAT sensor, might be the biggest hurdles once cracked.
ignition curve based based on boost, IAT and TPS rather than gear might be more practical as well.
Basicaly boosted bikes need to look at Boost, and RPM primarliy. TPS, ignition timing and additional fuel also utilized to reduce turbo lag, and improve throttle response.
Please excuse my electronics ignorance, but are you saying the zx14 electronics is as simple as the gen1 Busa? Is the gen 2 busa really that different from the others with exception of 4 additional injectors?
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted September 03, 2009 09:30 PM
The 06/07 14 and the 02-07 Busa both use the older 7052 32bit CPU. Starting in 08 both the 14 and busa switched to the M32196 CPU. The m32 has about twice the clock speed and 4 times the memory of the older 7052. The 7052 was probably replaced because it was discontinued. Not because it was inadequate. Just like everything else when they come out with newer more powerful chips they discontinue the older ones so they can sell the new ones.
The biggest advantage of the M32s is probably the map space available with the extra memory. With that mode ABC switch the 08 Busa has it now has 86 ignition maps and 104 fuel maps
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Compton
Zone Head
Posts: 969
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posted September 04, 2009 04:59 AM
I have an 07 and access to a dyno if you need any more "Tester"
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b.w.
zx14, little longer, little louder, little lower.
08 Busa, just a little longer and louder and lower than the 14
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted September 23, 2009 09:03 AM
bump
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68gts2
Zone Head
hobbies ( Beating you !!! )
Posts: 927
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posted September 24, 2009 09:51 AM
Just curious if it made any more power with the extra rpm's?do you have a ball park price on the reflash yet? Thanks for not giving up as others in the aftermarket seem to have done on these limitations the factory placed on these bikes.
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Chromed-out,in the dirt 08SE with all the good stuff!!!
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted September 25, 2009 07:25 AM
I can't really discuss the business end of it in the forum as I'm not a sponsor.
As for results I'm currently having the problem I always have when professional racers volunteer to test my stuff, they keep everything to themselves. Yes they will tell me the revs did increase and the speed limiter was disabled but beyond that they are keeping to themselves. All I know is they raced it and "kicked ass"
One way you could tell if it would make more power is by looking at the dyno chart of your bike now. Was the power still trending upward when the rev limits kicked in or had it peaked and was falling off before that?
This bike, a triumph daytona would definitely have more power potential with more revs
This FJ1300 not so much.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 25, 2009 07:37 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 25 Sep 2009 15:58
A stock motor 14 is done building power well before the stock redline. So, without any additonal engine work or power adders, you will not make more power with additional revs. But there are other reasons for extending the rpm.
Above pull made with aftermarket full exhaust, your typical bolt-ons, and MR9 fuel. You can see the motor stops building additional power well before the stock redline.
Shane
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted September 25, 2009 07:55 AM
i agree with shane. i bumped mine up so i have more room and not hit the limiter as easy. also you are higher up in the power at the point when it pulls down the revs on the shift. though that may not be for everyone. my bike maintains the power to the limit and does not fall lower. if mine had the stock system and curve i doubt i would do it.
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted October 07, 2009 01:42 PM
Someone posted this on my other site. It is a ZX-10 08/09 with extended rev limits to 14k. They didn't say what they used to fuel tune it or what kind of mods etc. It doesn't look like it is making more than the old peak with the extra revs but it doesn't drop off either.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted October 17, 2009 09:50 AM
Edited By: 2000redrocket on 17 Oct 2009 17:51
how is it going rr? if y2k gets a 14 to play with and the ecu stuff works well you guys may make me put a 14 into my 12.
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68gts2
Zone Head
hobbies ( Beating you !!! )
Posts: 927
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posted October 17, 2009 11:45 AM
Ridgeracer any new progress on hacking the 14secu yet?
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Chromed-out,in the dirt 08SE with all the good stuff!!!
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted October 18, 2009 07:37 AM
Have not really worked on it since. Too busy trying to pay the rent at the moment.
I only did the 14 because I heard a lot of guys were interested but the interest hasn't really materialized. I guess I thought things would progress the same way they did for the busa. But the flash capability currently out there for the Busa has raised everyone's expectation level for what flash can do. Add to that the current economic situation and time of year.
The plan was income from flashing rev limits would support me while I developed the software but its been 6 weeks and I haven't flashed any 14s except the proof of concept ones I did. Right now there are other non-bike guys willing to pay me hourly to hack their stuff so that is my priority in the near term. Probably January 2010 before you see anything significant for the 14.
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