Nelson Taylor
Zone Head
Posts: 927
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posted August 02, 2009 07:48 PM
Any Racers using the Bazzaz???
Im wondering whats the ease of use of this unit is over the PC3?
I have an opportunity to get one for a decent price.
Will I still need to see a dyno to tune/map the bike or can I do it from home or at the track?
Can someone explain how I would tune my bike with this unit?
And more importantly if your using it what results are you getting.
I did a search and it seemed as if alot dynojet tuners praised it but the it appears not too many "average joes" are using...
Thanks
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Best #'s
1.54
4.03
6.02 @ 121mph
(Stock Wheelbase) 2006 ZX14
   
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted August 03, 2009 05:15 PM
nelson what's your email?
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Nelson Taylor
Zone Head
Posts: 927
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posted August 03, 2009 06:33 PM
nelsontayloriii@yahoo.com
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Best #'s
1.54
4.03
6.02 @ 121mph
(Stock Wheelbase) 2006 ZX14
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JDC
Zone Head
Posts: 570
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posted August 03, 2009 07:32 PM
 Edited By: JDC on 4 Aug 2009 03:34
Ease of use? Very easy to use, and it gets 'in the ball park".... how close is debatable, but it is close enough for turbo tuning, and non-turbo likely within .1 or .2 tenths on A/F is my guess.
I have enjoyed being able to 'tune' without a dyno, and know that I am 'in the ball park"... having tested the Bazzaz pre and post dyno tuning and comparing those tunes with street, real life, tunes.
It is a PITA to install on the 14, as Bazzaz could have used the OEM FI harness connector, but did not, so it will take 2-4 hours to install, where it could have been an easy 30 minute install, with 2-3 beers or cokes inbetween.
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted August 03, 2009 07:38 PM
On the bike we have it on it's alot closer the .2 tenths
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JDC
Zone Head
Posts: 570
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posted August 04, 2009 12:31 AM
Edited By: JDC on 4 Aug 2009 09:06
My experience with the tuning of the AFR Bazzaz unit -vs- dyno tuning.
I had my Bazzaz unit on for some weeks, tuning to 13.1. Made about 6 final maps all at 13.1, and some at other A/F's. But the bike felt 'flat'. Called and spoke with Bazzaz a number of times about this issue, and a few times more about some other things, as well as visiting their shop 2-3 times, and finally ended up taking it to Bazzaz for a tune on their dyno. They are about 4 minutes down the street. Great folks.
Anyway, the resulting map from their dyno was more lean coming out of their dyno tune, by more than .2, and by an average of about 15 percent cell change, actually. That auto tune map to dyno tune map even coming from another auto tune to 13.1 that day, when arriving at Bazzaz and accepting in the 'adjustments', which were very few by then, before the dyno tune was performed. Bazzaz staff saw that 13.1 map, and they agreed it was 'right on' and looked good.
That dyno map was checked against the previous 13.1 auto-tuned maps, which according to the Bazzaz Gadget, had all been 'right on' (right on I don't think really exists with auto A/F, other than real time if it can be monitored/had - but who or what does that accurately, I don't know).
They, Amar Bazzaz and staff, explained that when making the Bazzaz unit, they had to realize there was going to be some 'lag' in their unit responding to the O2 pickup and the ECU calcs and resulting AFR 'recommendations', meaning the unit was not exactly 'real time', so there would be some differences I'd see with the 'auto' function for AFR and it's maps, and how a map would come out in real time on a dyno. There was some acknowledgement that the dyno would be more accurate. I was not told how much lag was in the system, though I did ask. I also asked about the accuracy of the O2 AFR sensor/unit compared to the dyno sensor, and was told there are some differences - meaning the dyno would be more accurate. Again, no definitive details, despite asking how much difference would be 'normal' between the dyno and one of the Bazzaz AFR units.
The bike definitely performed much better after the dyno tune. Equal to the after effects I've had coming off DJ custome tunes. The tuner did a great job with the tune at Bazzaz, and as I've had at my local tuner with a DJ.
I had wished there had been a map compare so I could have automatically compared those maps. Doing the cell-by-cell check took some time for that full set of 13.1 AFR maps against the dyno tune map.
Since the turbo install, I feel the Bazzaz is 'in it's own', since the A/F, as far as I can tell, only needs to be close to the range, say 12.5. and not spot on.
For the seasonal changes, one map for Spring/Fall, one for Winter and one for Summer, it has been great, also.
I have also had the bike on a DJ dyno a number of times with a tuner I've been using for a few years now. Coming off a DJ, with a PC III, I had hoped I could compare the PC maps to the Bazzaz maps, since both are said to be 'percentage' based fuel maps, from 1-100, but that turns out not to be accurate. Also coming off the DJ having tuned to Bazzaz mapt as well.
Bazzaz explained both the Bazzaz and PC used the same percentages, so the maps were 'compatable, other than the lack of full corresponding TP/cell data. But during my map translation, I discovered the Bazzaz has a top of 50 in a cell, if I recall correctly. I still went as far as translating a PC III map to Bazzaz, and the bike ran terribly. When I spoke with Bazzaz about this 'difference of performance', since they said their system mapped the same, in percentage values, as the PC setup, I was told it was because the Bazzaz unit was controlling 8 FI's. I did remind them that the 14 has only 4 Fi's, so that could not explain why the two maps were incompatible. I was then told that because the Bazzaz controlled 8 FI's, nad was setup that way, compared to the PC, the translation of a PC map to Bazzaz map would only provide 1/2 the fuel needed. I again shared that their unit, for the 14, only controlled 4 FI's. and that answer did not make any sense. I added that what did make sense was that their unit did not really work in a percent basis, meaning 1-100 as allowable numbers. They agreed to that. I did not discover the facts about how the two units use the fuel cell info differently from one another, but they sure do.
If I can find a fully automatic AFR system, that is accurate, I am going to get it. I am content with the Bazzaz unit since installilng the turbo, given it can tolerate less accuracy and still feel like it is performing. Their software could have been 'so much more'... and in my discussions with Bazzaz, there seems little to no interest at Bazzaz to really beef it up and make it kick ass, or to even correct the simple cell error it has for '0' values, let alone put on a 14 compatible harness to save the bike owner hours of installation, or removal and re-install, if the harness goes bad. I checked mine throughly before installing, and found a few connectors which were not in the sockets, and when put in would not stay there, so I had to permenantely fix them in place.
I could be very wrong, but at this point I don't see Bazzaz going much further with a more refined/better AFR product .
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Nelson Taylor
Zone Head
Posts: 927
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posted August 04, 2009 06:16 PM
thanks
____________
Best #'s
1.54
4.03
6.02 @ 121mph
(Stock Wheelbase) 2006 ZX14
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