dubious
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posted June 20, 2009 05:27 PM
 Edited By: dubious on 21 Jun 2009 02:15
Adams pan, Turbo oil return, and supply?
Well, another dissapointment and set back in progress, due to poor service, poor comunication skills, and general ignorance.
Anyone have detailed pics and tech info of their Muzzy, or Mr Turbo, oil supply and return lines, preferably with the adams oil pan.
Can anyone tell me if Mr Turbo is installing turbo oil feed restrictor when they take the oil supply for turbo off the main oil gallery?
ATP take supply off a T on the oil pressure switch, and since it doesn't have a restrictor I am wondering whats up.
I have been told it is very important to get the oil return as close to the oil pump pickup as possible, well how close exactly?
If worse comes of it and i have to call another vendor ie
Chris Jones, he will be getting alot more of my business.
I am at the end of my wits and patience with poor service.
HEY EVERYONE!
WAKE UP!
ITS THE ELECTRONIC AGES< AND THE INTERNET CAN MAKE OR BREAK YOU!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
on a side note....
Anyone interested in an ATP Turbo cheap?
ENTIRE KIT BRAND NEW. NEVER RAN!>>
>GT30 dbbl brg turbo,
>Ceramic coated plumbing and turbine housing, dump pipe, header, wastegate dump etc
>Turbonetics external wastgate
>Tial 50 mm blow off
>gauges and billet brackets
> SPI Risng Rate Regulator
the works...complete kit
Good for 400+ HP.
$6000 invested, considering reasonable offers.
Get it before I fire it up, or it will become a used deal.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
  
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1badzx12r
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posted June 20, 2009 05:36 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 21 Jun 2009 01:37
i use a stock pan and yes i have an oil restrictor that a port was made for it right by the pressure switch .. and i have a special fitting that is installed with my oil drain plug that it returns thru ..
i've gone thru several scavenger pumps tho ..
and i've checked how much oil returns thru line and its alot .. i didn't get a flow rate ...but i was surprized at the rate of flow with the restrictor returning from the turbo
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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dubious
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posted June 20, 2009 06:20 PM
Edited By: dubious on 21 Jun 2009 03:29
Yeah, I have access to check one out like yours.
Have you ever had oil / bearing problems?
I am thinking the lack of restrictor is what has taken out rod bearings in the past, especially on high HP bikes that are spinning the tire bad down the track.
If we take the oil off the ends of the main gallery, or beside the pressure switch, and take too much, it will starve the rods and mains...
When I spoke on the phone with Harry, he seemed to think I have a swivel which I do not, it has baffles and trap door. He was insistant I weld the bung on my pan right beside the pickup, but the adams pan is curved there, and I am not about to weld and warp my $850 pan.
I am obviously going to have to figure it out myself.
I will take the pan off and measure up a length of tube, and use a 45' bulkhead fitting. I am not welding that pan.
I called him Friday morning asking him to send pics and info of previous adams pan set up to make sure I get it right,
Oh, and the map too. I still never got my map.
When I didn't recieve info at 4:30 PM I called again to ask, as its the weekend and I have plans to get this thing running, and make some progress.
here I sit like a mushroom
People shouldn't make commitments they can't keep.
and take care of old business before new.
How hard is it to email pics to a customer who has paid?
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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eklipse636
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ZX-14
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posted June 20, 2009 06:34 PM
I agree dub, but people aren't like they should be. He has ur money, and there's someone else lined up to give more. They don't understand good customer service is the numb 1 best advertisement!
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Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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1badzx12r
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posted June 20, 2009 06:40 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 21 Jun 2009 02:42
i've never had a bearing problem or oiling problem .. and i did put a schnitz high pressure oil relief valve in to help from trying to starve turbo from oiling .. i did have an oil gauge on for a while to check oil pressure on motor and it was over 100lbs at high rpm .. i have run 14lbs of boost on my bone stock motor and spun the shit out of tires ..
but your right ..i know were you coming from .. and you will do better doing it your self than listening to the experts or builders ..who's dimes is not being spent and don't care nothing but making the buck ..
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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dubious
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posted June 20, 2009 07:19 PM
Thanks for the feedback 1Bad,
Much appreciated, as I have a direction to follow.
I too have the HP releif valve but never installed it as the clems 2nd balancer shafts should divert more flow to the crank too.
Maybe I will install it and try it out with both and a gauge. I would rather blow a seal , or oil fliter oring than run a brg dry.
There have been some exceptions as far as service.
Chris Jones, JE, Cliff at MTC, , Bill Easson, Schnitz, and Brock have all been setting the standard from my personal experience.
I had to throw that down, as I want people to know who have treated me exceptionaly well, and I want everyone to know I am not about bashing, but about good business on both ends.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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1badzx12r
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posted June 21, 2009 04:13 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 21 Jun 2009 12:14
i heard that if you run too much oil pressure on the zx14 it warps the back plate on the oil pump .. Schnitz or APE sell a thicker backing plate for the zx14 .. i've had no problems so i never look it up
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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dubious
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posted June 21, 2009 06:02 AM
Thanks, 
Yup I have the muzzy oil pump plate too.
I have taken every precaution I have ever heard of to keep it alive, and would hate some silly oil flow / restriction error to take out all my hard work, time invested, and hard earned $$$ LOL
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted June 21, 2009 06:05 AM
Dub.....The best time to call is after 7...
The problem is that he still does most of the work himself...Its like calling the doctor, and talking to his secretary that can never answer the questions needed...
Just make sure the pickup is not touching the bottom of the pan, so it doesnt get stuck sucking on the pan as there will be no oil goin up the return!!!
____________
Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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dubious
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posted June 21, 2009 06:17 AM
Thanks buddy!
Who is best to call after 7:00?
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Compton
Zone Head
Posts: 969
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posted June 21, 2009 08:57 AM
My garrett GT30/76r turbo has a restrictor in the center section from garrett.
return, just a -10 AN.
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b.w.
zx14, little longer, little louder, little lower.
08 Busa, just a little longer and louder and lower than the 14
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Compton
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posted June 21, 2009 09:01 AM
and i'd call adams, they have plenty of turbo bikes they have done. they should be able to help, Garron or Coby has been plenty helpful to me.
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b.w.
zx14, little longer, little louder, little lower.
08 Busa, just a little longer and louder and lower than the 14
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JDC
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posted June 21, 2009 10:31 AM
Edited By: JDC on 21 Jun 2009 18:33
Dubvious,
I don't have any expertise on engines, etc,. I've wondered since putting in an digital oil gauge.. since when the bike starts up the PSI is great, but after the bike is warmdd well/hot, that the gauge shows 0 at idle. A little more RPM and it bumps up to a few lbs of PSI.
Sitting at stop lights - 0. I am hoping I am getting some type of oil pressure at idle... cripes. The PSI doesn't change from 0 until the bike gets up to about 2K. I do know that Harry said that he adjusted the RPM's on his turbo installs to 1500, so there was better 'pickup' with the oil return line.
I put in a scavange pump because I could not get the oil to return well following the ATP muffler and lowering of the oil return like to accomodate that new lowered oil return line position. I had a ton of blue smoke coming out of the exhaust. I raised the oil line 1/2 inch with 2K insulation between the oil line and exhaust pipe, and that helped lessen the oil fog/smoke a lot on level ground. Still coming to fast stops at lights, down hill grades would be enough to 'backup' the oil into the turbo and the smoke would be on again.
I tried to make sure the oil return line was in 'position' as Harry said, and I could feel some vacume pull from the line when I put my finger on the end of the oil return line tube. Is it or was it enough. I don't know.
The scavange pump solved my issue of the bike being a blue oil smoke machine. It was like in the movies. It was just terrible.
Not any more 
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1badzx12r
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posted June 21, 2009 11:08 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 21 Jun 2009 19:15
only draw back to a scavenger pump is if you street ride you better carry a spare .. the failure rate has been awful for me .. from 500 to 5000 miles you never know what you gonna get
http://www.cycle-logicmotorsports.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=27&zenid=e4d3a7d8001c99210d8b0c3f72faaacd
i've gone thru 5 of these in 10,000 miles
____________
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BMCFilters
Parking Attendant
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posted June 21, 2009 02:28 PM
quote:
only draw back to a scavenger pump is if you street ride you better carry a spare .. the failure rate has been awful for me .. from 500 to 5000 miles you never know what you gonna get
http://www.cycle-logicmotorsports.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=27&zenid=e4d3a7d8001c99210d8b0c3f72faaacd
i've gone thru 5 of these in 10,000 miles
That's not good.
Here is what I have, about 1/3 way down page:
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/oilsystems.htm
RB Racing Electric Spur Gear Oil Feed and Scavenge Pumps
I asked about life and seller said few years. I'll see. The connectors are made by BP, I believe. I don't know the manuf, but I think it is Euro., BP as well?
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JDC
Zone Head
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posted June 21, 2009 02:32 PM
Edited By: JDC on 21 Jun 2009 22:32
I have one of those.
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/oilsystems.htm
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dubious
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posted June 21, 2009 04:05 PM
quote:
and i'd call adams, they have plenty of turbo bikes they have done. they should be able to help, Garron or Coby has been plenty helpful to me.
Thats the plan for Monday.
Wish I would have known it Friday when I was told I would get the email.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
dubious
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posted June 21, 2009 04:08 PM
quote:
Dubvious,
I don't have any expertise on engines, etc,. I've wondered since putting in an digital oil gauge.. since when the bike starts up the PSI is great, but after the bike is warmdd well/hot, that the gauge shows 0 at idle. A little more RPM and it bumps up to a few lbs of PSI.
Sitting at stop lights - 0. I am hoping I am getting some type of oil pressure at idle... cripes. The PSI doesn't change from 0 until the bike gets up to about 2K. I do know that Harry said that he adjusted the RPM's on his turbo installs to 1500, so there was better 'pickup' with the oil return line.
JDC, where are you getting the oil pressure signal from.
That could be very bad news...obviously the crank is getting oil as it would have taken out bearings already, but I would still be concerned!
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
1badzx12r
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Posts: 8321
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posted June 21, 2009 04:41 PM
quote:
That's not good.
Here is what I have, about 1/3 way down page:
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/oilsystems.htm
RB Racing Electric Spur Gear Oil Feed and Scavenge Pumps
I asked about life and seller said few years. I'll see. The connectors are made by BP, I believe. I don't know the manuf, but I think it is Euro., BP as well?
i've look into those but what i found was its pulling 3.5 amps and only rated for oil temps of 175 degrees ..
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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JDC
Zone Head
Posts: 570
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posted June 21, 2009 07:29 PM
Edited By: JDC on 22 Jun 2009 03:53
quote:
quote:
Dubvious,
I don't have any expertise on engines, etc,. I've wondered since putting in an digital oil gauge.. since when the bike starts up the PSI is great, but after the bike is warmdd well/hot, that the gauge shows 0 at idle. A little more RPM and it bumps up to a few lbs of PSI.
Sitting at stop lights - 0. I am hoping I am getting some type of oil pressure at idle... cripes. The PSI doesn't change from 0 until the bike gets up to about 2K. I do know that Harry said that he adjusted the RPM's on his turbo installs to 1500, so there was better 'pickup' with the oil return line.
JDC, where are you getting the oil pressure signal from.
That could be very bad news...obviously the crank is getting oil as it would have taken out bearings already, but I would still be concerned!
Dubvious,
I now have a double Tee where the OEM sending unit was. Initially, to install the oil feed line to the turbo, on the ATP setup, you remove the OEM sending unit, put on a Tee, and the sending unit goes on the end of the Tee, turbo oil feed line on the branch off.
To put on the digital pressure sending unit for the digital oil PSI gauge, I installed another tee!
OEM Sending Unit: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Engine
...........................................::::.......................::::
...........................................::::.......................::::
...........................................::::.......................::::
...........................................::::.......................::::
.......................................Digital.................Turbo feed
...................................sending unit ................line
just did this drawing:
So first T off this whole double Tee is the feed line to the turbo.
Second T is the the digital sending unit.
At the end of the T is the OEM sending unit.
I figure it is reading artificially low due to placement. I had thought of putting the turbo feed line on the end, but could not get the sending units spacing needs installing that method.
I don't like that big "0" reading at idle, and figure I have to be getting a few lbs of PSI. The OEM sending unit has not given any warnings.
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dubious
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posted June 21, 2009 07:43 PM
Edited By: dubious on 22 Jun 2009 03:48
Yup, if it was upstream of the turbo, you would see better reading.
You could also put it in place of the plug at the end of the main oil gallery, thats the plug directly below the ignition rotor cover, in the block... that will show what the oil pressure after the turbo and the crank bearings.
If you used the one on the left side of the bike under the alternator, it would show oil pressure before the turbo, and crank, might be better locations for space.
Mr Turbo takes the oil feed for the turbo below the rotor, after the crank, which I am thinking is best,,, I would rather kill a turbo than the motor...
In either case it is imperative to ensure the turbo oil feed has a restrictor, or the crank bearings and cams will starve.
I spent a few hrs looking at the alternatives, and weighing them last night, I do not wish to do the R&D to figure out what size restrictor is needed to balance it all though. I don't have the R&D / motor budget or time...LOL
Im am hoping someone with a MR Turbo kit can tell me, or maybe Adams has an answer, after all, I did buy his fancy pan!
I am sure Chris will tell me what he is doing too.
Would have called either of them if I would have known.
JDC, since Harry isn't emailing me, can you send me the map for our kit?
If you don't mind my email is:
eldubois at telus dot net
Its pretty bad when customers have to ask other customers for stuff they alredy paid for.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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JDC
Zone Head
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posted June 21, 2009 07:52 PM
Edited By: JDC on 22 Jun 2009 03:58
Dubvious,
Sure. I'm using a Bazzaz, I can send you that map if you like? I haven't been on a PC for a while.
I am uncertain, who's kit are you using?
I had not considered the idea of amount of oil loss to the crank due to PSI/oil feed-n- bleed to the turbo. I talked to Harry about the oil feed lines to the turb o, and the general issue of it sharing oil PSI for the engine, He said it is more than sufficient, and would not be an issue. There is not a restrictor on the ATP kit.
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dubious
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posted June 21, 2009 09:53 PM
can i get your email since PM's aren't working and your IM's are disabled?
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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JDC
Zone Head
Posts: 570
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posted June 22, 2009 07:58 AM
Edited By: JDC on 22 Jun 2009 15:59
lovecostarica at gmail dot com !
I am leaving on a short trip tomorrow and returning this weekend. Can u guess where I am going? LOL
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iflyems
Expert Class
Posts: 233
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posted June 22, 2009 12:13 PM
You totally lost me there Lyle. Do you have a Mr. Turbo kit or an ATP kit??
And, Harry couldn't answer your questions why??
Not sure why you would want to switch kits, I thought we'd already been over this. Harry had mine hooked up just fine, don't see what the difference is in your kit.
Also, Coby Adams is difficult to get a hold of most of the time, but keep trying.
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