mike1024
Expert Class
Posts: 172
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posted June 19, 2009 04:25 PM
spark plugs fouled was my gremlin. same thing happened to me.
plugs were like $14 A PIECE
   
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted June 19, 2009 04:50 PM
 Edited By: 1badzx12r on 20 Jun 2009 00:53
The zx12 tensioner is a coneventional tensioner, not hydraulic.
It will adjust automaticaly.
Need to machine .120" off the face of the mount, so it goes in further, and drop it in there!
i understand that .. but what does having to loose oil pressure have to do with loosing the cam tensioner adjustment after start-up .. i know its hydraulic on start up but it does have a manual lock also and the oil only adjust as needed .. it locks itself until it get loose again and falls into next click ..
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted June 19, 2009 05:42 PM
why do they rattle until the oil gets there on cold starts then?
Bob Carpenter, Bill easson and a handful of others have gone this route long before me..
I would think they know better than either of us?
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted June 19, 2009 05:55 PM
quote:
quote:
sounds like the cam chain is out of adjustment and or let loose. i have had buddy loose a cam chain riding next to me and that's what it was like..... clatter, loss of power.....
bigdtd, what did your buddy have to do once this happened to his bike. Give me some idea in as much detail as possible as to what l may be facing. Thanks!
he replaced some valves, valve guides, cam chain, pistons. depends on your luck what you will need. hope its not much.
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted June 19, 2009 06:27 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 20 Jun 2009 02:30
quote:
why do they rattle until the oil gets there on cold starts then?
Bob Carpenter, Bill easson and a handful of others have gone this route long before me..
I would think they know better than either of us?
Well they don't unlock once lock in .. if you think thats the case then just let it slide all the way out to last click and install it and see what gives ... lock on tensioner or cam chain or guide or tensioner bolts ..
i think they rattle because they are in-between locking notches .. not because hydraulics keeps them tight
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Ninja ZX-14
Expert Class
Posts: 111
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posted June 19, 2009 06:27 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
sounds like the cam chain is out of adjustment and or let loose. i have had buddy loose a cam chain riding next to me and that's what it was like..... clatter, loss of power.....
he replaced some valves, valve guides, cam chain, pistons. depends on your luck what you will need. hope its not much.
Ouch! Expensive! So how can he avoid that same issue in the future because this mite be exactly what lm lookin at.?
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Ninja 14
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Ninja ZX-14
Expert Class
Posts: 111
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posted June 19, 2009 06:36 PM
OK, So guys tel me, do we go with the stock 14 hydraulic tensioner, a manual one or a modified ZX-12 tensioner and why?
1badzx12r, doesnt the stock 14 hydraulic tensioner adjust automatically as well?
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Ninja 14
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted June 19, 2009 06:42 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 20 Jun 2009 02:46
yes the stocker adjusts automatically until it locks itself into the next click then i think it has to wait for stretch to lock into the following click ..and i think the spacing from click to click is a little far apart on the zx14 thus rattling at start-up .. i've got old cam chain tensioners from 1979 kz's to 2006 zx14 laying around .. and the older bikes had a finer locking spots with stronger locks and pressure springs pushing on chain
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted June 19, 2009 06:44 PM
myself i'm running a 300hp turbo zx14 bike with 10,000 miles and 400 dragstrip passes and all i've ever used is the stock tensioner ...its worked flawless
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MJ
Zone Head
Posts: 560
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posted June 19, 2009 10:52 PM
I've had no problems with my stocker either 
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dattaway2
Novice Class
Ninja's rule
Posts: 51
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posted June 19, 2009 11:23 PM
Funny, those are the same symptoms of running out of fuel. Lost fuel pressure is always dramatic.
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Ninja ZX-14
Expert Class
Posts: 111
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posted June 20, 2009 12:10 PM
quote:
Funny, those are the same symptoms of running out of fuel. Lost fuel pressure is always dramatic.
Naw, plenty of fuel. It ran like a foul plug unti l started to hear the clacking (broken chain) sound on the upper end of the engine. I wish out of fuel was all it was. Now l gotta go into the motor right here in the middle of riding season. That Sucks! Dropped bike off at mechanic shop. Waiting to hear the verdict and how much l gotta pay.
Removing and replacing an engine in a Kaw is a lot more labor intense than a Zuki. Thats a good part of the cost right there.
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Ninja 14
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bundy
Novice Class
Posts: 39
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posted June 21, 2009 06:07 AM
well mine wouldnt start then the fi light came on just turned over took it to shop say it was not firing code 23 came up havent heard from him oh it has a1450 kit ran dam good until last week.
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bundy
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted June 21, 2009 06:15 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 21 Jun 2009 14:17
quote:
quote:
Removing and replacing an engine in a Kaw is a lot more labor intense than a Zuki. Thats a good part of the cost right there.
don't let them blow that smoke up your azz .. i've pulled motors from both zx14's and busa's .. the zx14 is easier to pull motor from ... if you remove all the plastic on the bike and the exhaust and rad your self ... it only takes about an hour to remove the motor then ..
and an hour to hour and a 1/2 to reinstall ..if the mechanic knows what he's doing ..
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted June 21, 2009 06:17 AM
quote:
and an hour to hour and a 1/2 to reinstall ..if the mechanic knows what he's doing
And if the mechanic doesn't know what they are doing...well, you might need a new frame...
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted June 21, 2009 06:38 AM
quote:
quote:
and an hour to hour and a 1/2 to reinstall ..if the mechanic knows what he's doing
And if the mechanic doesn't know what they are doing...well, you might need a new frame...
that happens more on the un-install part
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted June 21, 2009 06:44 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
and an hour to hour and a 1/2 to reinstall ..if the mechanic knows what he's doing
And if the mechanic doesn't know what they are doing...well, you might need a new frame...
that happens more on the un-install part
True, it is perhaps more likely...but who wants to risk it, either way? If the preload is set too high on the collars, you are asking for trouble.
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Ninja ZX-14
Expert Class
Posts: 111
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posted June 21, 2009 10:11 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Removing and replacing an engine in a Kaw is a lot more labor intense than a Zuki. Thats a good part of the cost right there.
don't let them blow that smoke up your azz .. i've pulled motors from both zx14's and busa's .. the zx14 is easier to pull motor from ... if you remove all the plastic on the bike and the exhaust and rad your self ... it only takes about an hour to remove the motor then ..
and an hour to hour and a 1/2 to reinstall ..if the mechanic knows what he's doing ..
1badzx12r, this wasn't told to me from jus my mechanic working on my bike, I have spoken to Carpenter, Lee Shierts, RC Performance, Jim at CNC and a copule other top engine builders. They all say the same thing and they are all well qualified to make this statement. Suzuki jus makes dealing with a bike, after market wise a lot more simpler. It jus is and lm a Kaw man. For example: the (One piece top case) that the 14s have. For the most part, u can remove and reinstall almost 2 Busa motors to just one 14 motor because of the way things are installed, mounts, wiring harness, lines, etc.
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Ninja 14
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted June 21, 2009 12:33 PM
Busa guys saying the zx14 is hard to work on ...Hummm go figure..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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billeason
Zone Head
Posts: 711
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posted June 21, 2009 06:10 PM
If your running high lift cams with better springs you may want to keep an eye on the chain. I have seen two motors destroyed due to chain failure. I have one apart now with three hundred miles since head and cams and the chain is just starting to kink. The stk tensioner uses a spring metal type lock that is inferior to the locking pawl on a modified 12's . The 14's ten, will back off on a fast shift and it only gets worse as they get older. I had first thought it was the tensioner only'' causing some problems but now know the chain is not very stout with cams/springs. Now i know this is going to start a fire storm and i have not mentioned this before because of it but i dont like the manual adusters because they don't hit the guide on center and the more you adjust them the more it cocks the guide and prematurely wears them. Try marking the tension rod and install in the hole then remove and look at the back of the guide[ oh shit] and you will see what i mean. I am in talks with Eddy K. at V/H to make a better chain for 14's i just need to get the sizes wright. Its not as easy as just modding a busa chain[shortening it] because you can't use a spacer on the 14's for obvious reasons,but he says it's doable, but what isn't with Ed and V/H's.I should be close by next week.........................Bill
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bill eason
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted June 21, 2009 06:33 PM
quote:
If your running high lift cams with better springs you may want to keep an eye on the chain. I have seen two motors destroyed due to chain failure. I have one apart now with three hundred miles since head and cams and the chain is just starting to kink. The stk tensioner uses a spring metal type lock that is inferior to the locking pawl on a modified 12's . The 14's ten, will back off on a fast shift and it only gets worse as they get older. I had first thought it was the tensioner only'' causing some problems but now know the chain is not very stout with cams/springs. Now i know this is going to start a fire storm and i have not mentioned this before because of it but i dont like the manual adusters because they don't hit the guide on center and the more you adjust them the more it cocks the guide and prematurely wears them. Try marking the tension rod and install in the hole then remove and look at the back of the guide[ oh shit] and you will see what i mean. I am in talks with Eddy K. at V/H to make a better chain for 14's i just need to get the sizes wright. Its not as easy as just modding a busa chain[shortening it] because you can't use a spacer on the 14's for obvious reasons,but he says it's doable, but what isn't with Ed and V/H's.I should be close by next week.........................Bill
A few questios Bill if you don't mind ..Do you know if they changed the adjustor from 06 07 to 08 09 ? or they the same ? The reason i ask is my 09 has never had the start up rattle ...This new chain your are talking about , will it need a different guides because of it larger size ? Lastly i dislike the adjustable one offered by APE so i would rather go with your modded zx12 unit .. What is my cost for your zx12 modded adjustor? Thanks ...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted June 21, 2009 06:35 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Removing and replacing an engine in a Kaw is a lot more labor intense than a Zuki. Thats a good part of the cost right there.
1badzx12r, this wasn't told to me from jus my mechanic working on my bike, I have spoken to Carpenter, Lee Shierts, RC Performance, Jim at CNC and a copule other top engine builders. reinstall almost 2 Busa motors to just one 14 motor because of the way things are installed, mounts, wiring harness, lines, etc.
and i don't care what top notch engine builders have to say .. i'd like to see them remove 2 busa motors to me removing 1 zx14 motor ... i know i'm gonna get flamed for this commit .. but i haven't seen anything those guys build stay together long ..there's 2 big motors on this thread alone that was built by them and is busted up right now ..
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billeason
Zone Head
Posts: 711
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posted June 21, 2009 09:10 PM
quote:
quote:
If your running high lift cams with better springs you may want to keep an eye on the chain. I have seen two motors destroyed due to chain failure. I have one apart now with three hundred miles since head and cams and the chain is just starting to kink. The stk tensioner uses a spring metal type lock that is inferior to the locking pawl on a modified 12's . The 14's ten, will back off on a fast shift and it only gets worse as they get older. I had first thought it was the tensioner only'' causing some problems but now know the chain is not very stout with cams/springs. Now i know this is going to start a fire storm and i have not mentioned this before because of it but i dont like the manual adusters because they don't hit the guide on center and the more you adjust them the more it cocks the guide and prematurely wears them. Try marking the tension rod and install in the hole then remove and look at the back of the guide[ oh shit] and you will see what i mean. I am in talks with Eddy K. at V/H to make a better chain for 14's i just need to get the sizes wright. Its not as easy as just modding a busa chain[shortening it] because you can't use a spacer on the 14's for obvious reasons,but he says it's doable, but what isn't with Ed and V/H's.I should be close by next week.........................Bill
A few questios Bill if you don't mind ..Do you know if they changed the adjustor from 06 07 to 08 09 ? or they the same ? The reason i ask is my 09 has never had the start up rattle ...This new chain your are talking about , will it need a different guides because of it larger size ? Lastly i dislike the adjustable one offered by APE so i would rather go with your modded zx12 unit .. What is my cost for your zx12 modded adjustor? Thanks ...
Lee thats what im working on now hitting the guides in the center.There isn't any clearance problems in the tunnel or sprockets. It looks like the guides will be fine also,but when i take my spec's to Ed they need to be wright because i need to make up quite a few chains to make it feasible to even make them. The 14 uses a short chain 130 links is five to six links shorter then most of the popular hd ones on the market now. As for the 12 tensioner i can make them up for the machine costs plus the ten, itself,but here;s what i am running into. The 12 ten, are getting scarice used because of the dirt car guys using them up''so i have had to buy the last couple new,and even at my cost of 56,00 bucks with the machine work your looking at 90 dollars. I would think you could get a decent machinist to mod one for you, i don't mind selling you one but its a real simple mod. Just take .120ths of the mating surface of it where the gasket sits and your done. The 12 tensioner is just a hair to short,so you need to turn it down. The 09 14 has a heavier locking pawl,its still wire steel that looks like a spring[very weak] compared to the 6mil, pawl on the 12 thats billet, but still holds the arm tighter against the guide when cold then the 06-08's. You have my number lee if you don,t want to mod the ten, yourself then i will be happy to sell one. I have just been installing them in my motor kits, but i can make a few up for retail at cost for sure. Another idea is if anyone needs one and in their area can find a used one you can send it to me and i will mod it for you.LMK....................Bill
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bill eason
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Ninja ZX-14
Expert Class
Posts: 111
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posted June 29, 2009 03:20 PM
Just found out what my fate is with my bike: HD valve spring broke, which caused a valve to drop, bent 2 other valves, did some damage to that particular piston (JE Piston), did some damage to the head to where it now has to be welded in a particulare area, around or near the seat, so lm looking to spend a whole lot more money, that l don't have, than l first thought. I called around and it's hard to find anyone that sells 1 piston. You usually have to buy the whole set. What a bummer! Might as well replace all the Springs too, which are affordable, without the titanium retainers, which l already have from the old set.
What do you guy's recommend, another set of JE or CP pistons, which l have been hearing a lot about lately?
Come on guys, give me some tips, some valid ideas of what you would do.
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Ninja 14
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06redzx14
Pro
Posts: 1022
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posted June 29, 2009 03:30 PM
whose valve springs? email me at ni2k6klub@hotmail.com I know where some used pistons are if interested
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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