Obba
Expert Class
Posts: 455
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posted June 09, 2009 11:01 PM
Dyno accuracy question. Do the big boys do it right?
Ok first off:
One of my hobbies is electronics and PC’s etc. Most, if not all ‘things’ we buy today are rated around 25°C. My uncle bought me an Angel Cake mix from the US and it had different cooking times depending on the altitude! So there are ‘global’ standards for most things we buy.
We all know and have heard “This Dyno read this and that Dyno read that”.
People quoting crazy numbers, etc etc.
Then there is Rear Wheel HP and Crank HP.
And as most Guys & Gals know from this forum, air temp, air pressure, air humidity all makes a difference. Sometimes a big difference.
So when the major motorcycle manufactures quote HP – as in their OFFICIAL sales brochures – how accurate is that?
As Smokin said once ‘all bikes should just be sold on the qtr mile,,, etc’. But air temp and other variables come into play.
So why don’t (or isn’t there), a global Dyno official HP number?
All you need (and it isn’t hard to do, surely), is a clean room. Air temp 25°C, 1000bar, and air moisture/humidity at 60% - and then go for it?
Just measure the rear wheel on dead stock (as sold in the crate), tires andbike with a set 2lts of fuel and a 100KG weight on the seat.
Have a certification body set up to monitor the setup on a yearly or 6 month basis.
I’m talking of the actual big boy Motorbike manufactures's, not the local tuning guys.
But from a sales point of view and a buyers point of view, it would be nice to have a ‘standard’. Everything else seems to be…
  
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Compton
Zone Head
Posts: 969
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posted June 09, 2009 11:10 PM
If there testing is anything like i do at work, there is a "Standard" you have to follow to present to the EPA to pass any fed. testing.
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b.w.
zx14, little longer, little louder, little lower.
08 Busa, just a little longer and louder and lower than the 14
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted June 10, 2009 02:52 AM
The Big Boys are chasing sales. I wouldn't imagine their figures under-estimate power. A good engine on a cool, high pressure day would probably make it into the brochures as the quoted power figure, at the crank.
For the rest of us, disregarding those who just want numbers to brag about in the pub, all we really need to know is the gain in RWHP. The before and after numbers.
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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87gtNOS
Zone Head
Posts: 620
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posted June 10, 2009 03:22 AM
and this is why I would like BobC to share his map with me!
Basically there is no magic. You simply add or subtract fuel and get results. Depending on the dyno you are on, take the gains you achieve. It's all relative.
BobC's local dyno says 193 hp!! Mine, 175 hp!! Same exhaust on both bikes!
And to the original poster, I firmly believe the Aftermarket is cheating the #'s out of the dyno's.
Same day, same dyno, a NEW busa, with SMEG and tuned to the tits made 6 more hp than me....a far cry from the 190+ Brock claims. It made 176 SAE.
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01 ZX12R
07 ZX14 - YEAH BABY!
03 ZX9R-traded in for the 14!!! June 07!
05 636-traded in for the 9 Sept 05
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Flyboy
Pro
Posts: 1536
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posted June 10, 2009 07:02 AM
 Edited By: Flyboy on 10 Jun 2009 15:05
Manufactures dyno numbers and horsepower statements are probably as accurate as gas mileages on General Motors window stickers. I understand the American car companies were running their cars at a flat 60 mph in a no wind, no acceleration situation. Some of you car guys can probably verify that. That's why you never got their advertised mileage in a real life senario. I also understand Congress said no more and cars manufactures are now required to give realistic numbers. Aftermarket motorcycle companies want to stay in business so sometimes the numbers might be modestly inflated.
The 14 does make more hp then stated on the dyno when you take it on the track. The forced air into the airbox can add as much as 10 hp which is hard to measure on any chart. Brock would probably be the man to ask about that with all the testing he's done.
And lastly- When I set my first speed records in 2006 on the 14 I spoke to the American Kawasaki Marketing head honcho in LA about getting some publicity. He told me he would call me back. A week later he returned my call and told me the Kawasaki attorneys told him there was no way that they could have anything to do with me. The attorneys told him that mentioning anything about "horsepower numbers" or "mph numbers" could bring big lawsuits to them the next time a 19 year old ran his 14 into the back of a truck or off the side of the road. I'm sure that's the same with the other motorcycle manufacturers and their advertising. If you notice the guys writing the bike reviews in the magazines are the only ones that mention anything dealing with "numbers".
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'There's more living in five minutes flat-out on a bike than some men have in an entire life'.
"The World's Fastest Indian"
One fast red ZX-14,
Three World and four National Land Speed Records,
One faster red and white Cessna Turbo 210
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Obba
Expert Class
Posts: 455
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posted June 10, 2009 01:59 PM
You are all agreeing with me, in the sense that 'different days', 'cool days' and so on will make a difference and that there is no standard.
Compton: If you took your 'tested' dyno from one climate to another it would read different.
BobC: That's my point.
87Nos: Yep i agree.
FlyBoy: Congress wants to do cars better. The Air box figures could be left for the variable/unknown figures.
My OP was wondering why the Big Boys aren't forced to have a climate controlled clean room with the bike dead stock, 2ltrs fuel, 100Kg weight and then measure RWHP and take an average of 3 runs - all on a International Standard Dyno made by 'whomever', tested and calibrated on a 6 monthly basis by an official body.
Then the figures quoted would allow consumers a more informed descision and stll leave room for the salesman to talk about air box, areodynamics, after market mods and so on.
My point is that there has been a lot of talk on this and other forums about which bike makes more power.
The only way to do it would be to have two bikes tested one after the other on the same dyno - and then no one really knows how accurate that Dyno is.
Not wanting to cause any hassle here folks. It's not as though the BigBoys can't do it - and why should they, when everyone will buy the more powerfull bike - but you'd think that the law makers would insist that the power levels stated are correct.
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted June 10, 2009 05:10 PM
Don't forget, it would also have to have a ram air effect, too. Thats the only way the 14 is going to match or edge out the new busa's. Not that it matters: it's all about the rider and mods, most classes of bikes are so damn close. If someones check book decision is based on which bike makes 2.5 more hp than the other one: then they are a poser. They can then go buy a Busa and stand around with the rest of them admiring it in the parking lot. And scramble around trying there keys in all the ignitions until they find which one is theres at the end of the night.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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