pazx14rider
Zone Head
Posts: 953
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posted May 31, 2009 03:59 PM
Clutch Gone
Went for a ride with the misses today. well needless to say barely made it home its slippin bad and I babied it. Wheres the best place to buy Kawi Clutches? Schnitz? Should I remove the clutches and inspect the plates and just get fibers if the plates are ok? Or should I just Get the fibers and the plates. and what about springs will they be ok to reuse? Side case gasket needed? And any pointers on changing them? Sorry for all the questions I dont like doing a job twice. This will be my first time. I rebuild Transmissions on Forklifts and used to do cars so I have a general Idea on how too... but this will be the first bike. Ohh and made it 8200 on stock ones is that good...about 250 passes
  
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
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posted May 31, 2009 04:08 PM
Call Schnitz and order steels and fibers ..... It's easy as cake to replace ... Pull the cover and remove the 5 bolts and springs ...Take the old steels and fibers out in order .... Soak the new fibers over night in oil ... Follow the order of the old places and reinstall .. You can reuse the gasket as long as you didn't tear it ...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted May 31, 2009 04:36 PM
Hope you change your oil and filter more often than normal. Seen material build up in bottom of oil pan from worn out clutch plates. Pull the pan and clean and inspect for
sludge from material from worn clutch plates. With 250 passes a really good idea.
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pissear
Expert Class
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Posts: 309
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posted May 31, 2009 04:37 PM
Remove the sump cover so you can clean the crap on the bottom. Remove the oil pump to clean and inspect for clutch ka-ka and blade integrity. Super-super clean out every little spec in the engine or you will have that shit fly under the piston skirts and score a wall = Lose compression, skid on a bearing either crank or trans bearings. It's a mess in there.
Plates are stamped out of sheet. So, there is a cut side to the plates. Find those [memory] sides and now assemble the plates with the cut edges of the plates facing you as you lay them in the clutch basket..
As far as lubing the fibers, you can throw them in dry or wet. Either way they will live in a bath of oil and be having all the oil squeezed out of the material on the press of the clutch springs or release of the clutch lever.
Remove all gasket material left from splitting the covers off the cases. Do not damage the machined cover or case surfaces, as they are machined smooth as glass so no leak can channel thru a groove damaged by or removing any gasket material is to take some aluminum with it too. Use all new gaskets and install them dry.
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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dcjens
Pro
Wet side of Washington
Posts: 1059
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posted May 31, 2009 05:24 PM
woa...I understood him?
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Black 06
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
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posted May 31, 2009 05:52 PM
quote:
woa...I understood him?
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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pazx14rider
Zone Head
Posts: 953
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posted June 01, 2009 07:38 AM
Thanks guys. I had installed a clems pan about 400 miles ago and it looked good. But I have a borescope im gonna look down into the pan just to check before i pull it. Is it ok to reuse the old springs??
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Old Guy
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted June 01, 2009 07:46 AM
 Edited By: Old Guy on 1 Jun 2009 15:54
Hmmmmm
I 'm going to replace my clutch soon.
On ALL bikes I've put and seen the cut side IN pissear.
I respect your opinion enuf to ask why do you say putting cut side out??
pazx14rider, Get aftermarket springs or at least new ones. measure them to see if they are in spec. (IMO Aftermarket are better Kawi springs, usually 20% stronger. Although the 14 springs are fine with spacer)
And always fresh gaskets on a bike.
Leaks end up on back tire...,bad thing.
Very easy job.
I'm going with stock fibers and steel, with Brocks shot peened springs, no spacers.
Stock stuff lasted 20k miles and still works solo but slips 2 up and sometimes at low rpm when cold.
I couldnt find enough information on other clutches to chance a change.
EBC race pack works well in a friends 650 track bike and looked much better than this stock stuff.
just couldnt get any info on 14 stuff.
____________
Living the good life...,
On a XZ !!!!!
Tsukigi stainless full system
pcIII w/custom map
NO freakin flies!!
GP suspension forks
Penske rear shock
Rich's custom seat
And a whole bunch of other stuff.
97 zx6r full race bike with all the
good stuff
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted June 01, 2009 07:47 AM
I just always replaced springs, plates and drive disc's. Inspect the basket for indentions in the "Drive Dog" slots inside the basket. I also used a dial caliper and measured the heights of all my New springs.just in case of one being shorter. It happens.
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted June 01, 2009 07:49 AM
the oem kaw clutch is the best i've heard
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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Shane661
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posted June 01, 2009 07:52 AM
quote:
I just always replaced springs, plates and drive disc's. Inspect the basket for indentions in the "Drive Dog" slots inside the basket. I also used a dial caliper and measured the heights of all my New springs.just in case of one being shorter. It happens.
I wouldn't worry about your clutch, Louis. Everyone knows that the M14 doesn't make enough power to cause any slippage...
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted June 01, 2009 07:58 AM
You can reuse the springs IF you have not over heated them ..I'm on my 6 clutch 1000+ passes and still use the stock springs the bike came with ...I do use 3 Brocks spacers with those springs ...
I have put the steels in both ways and can't find any difference in clutch feel or the time it lasts ..
I have never had the pan off my bike to clean it out and have had ZERO problems , but i do change my oil and filter about ever 30 or 40 runs so i'm sure it keeps most of the clutch dust from building up in the engine..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted June 01, 2009 08:17 AM
quote:
quote:
I just always replaced springs, plates and drive disc's. Inspect the basket for indentions in the "Drive Dog" slots inside the basket. I also used a dial caliper and measured the heights of all my New springs.just in case of one being shorter. It happens.
I wouldn't worry about your clutch, Louis. Everyone knows that the M14 doesn't make enough power to cause any slippage...
Sorry Shane you can't have the M14 back..... :-) I have been reading up on
the Bazza kit I got from Lyle. My turn to plung in the O2 bung. Did
you have one welded on the Brocks?? :-) Insert joke here. :-)
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pissear
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posted June 01, 2009 09:08 AM
Old Guy, When you touch fingers together with both hands they fight each other. If you fold one hand over the other, all your fingers move in one direction, correct?
So, the rule is to follow the pressure plate. If you had a CBX Honda, this clutch pack has the pressure plate going in first. So, you send the cuts toward the engine or toward the pressure plate.
On the collapse, the pressure plate is the last to be touched. Therefore, you have the cut side biting one plate after the other. That is full contact no matter how little you turn over the round side and the radius of the round is no longer on the bite side or facing the last plate to dig is once the pressure plate is engaged, you are in a full bite times all that radius not making first contact is to face the most surface on the contact side.
It is so subtle, you sneak up on, 'The Hand' with his reverse plates and bite the hand that feeds you is the best can be beaten by a smidgen of a radius. :-) insert - yuck-yuck-yuck here. :-))))
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted June 01, 2009 10:07 AM
I was always told smooth radius in , because you want the clutch springs to have no hang ups trying to apply full pressure to the plates in the event you have wear dings in your clutch hub.
If you stay on top of everything and keep it fresh , I doubt it would make any difference.
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Old Guy
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted June 01, 2009 09:03 PM
thanks for the comeback fellas.
just read (and I forgot where but it was? a reliable source of info) about it. (the 'cut side)
I'm also gonna assume that the inner most plate is thicker than the rest too?
Wont be taking it apart until I get back from my comm. fishing gig.
I think it was at pyschobike I read that a fresh stack comes within a 1/16th of the end the basket fingers. can look through the fill hole.
If so, mine is down 1/4 inch and I can see the outer most fiber is noticeably thinner than the second fiber plate in.
Dont anticipate much wear to the basket itself.
____________
Living the good life...,
On a XZ !!!!!
Tsukigi stainless full system
pcIII w/custom map
NO freakin flies!!
GP suspension forks
Penske rear shock
Rich's custom seat
And a whole bunch of other stuff.
97 zx6r full race bike with all the
good stuff
|
Old Guy
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted June 01, 2009 09:05 PM
Edited By: Old Guy on 2 Jun 2009 05:06
oops
____________
Living the good life...,
On a XZ !!!!!
Tsukigi stainless full system
pcIII w/custom map
NO freakin flies!!
GP suspension forks
Penske rear shock
Rich's custom seat
And a whole bunch of other stuff.
97 zx6r full race bike with all the
good stuff
|
pazx14rider
Zone Head
Posts: 953
|
posted June 02, 2009 07:29 AM
quote:
You can reuse the springs IF you have not over heated them ..I'm on my 6 clutch 1000+ passes and still use the stock springs the bike came with ...I do use 3 Brocks spacers with those springs ...
I have put the steels in both ways and can't find any difference in clutch feel or the time it lasts ..
I have never had the pan off my bike to clean it out and have had ZERO problems , but i do change my oil and filter about ever 30 or 40 runs so i'm sure it keeps most of the clutch dust from building up in the engine..
Smokin I ordered the oem steels and fibers, I also ordered the Brocks spacers. You say you use 3...were all 5 too stiff?
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted June 02, 2009 03:22 PM
quote:
quote:
You can reuse the springs IF you have not over heated them ..I'm on my 6 clutch 1000+ passes and still use the stock springs the bike came with ...I do use 3 Brocks spacers with those springs ...
I have put the steels in both ways and can't find any difference in clutch feel or the time it lasts ..
I have never had the pan off my bike to clean it out and have had ZERO problems , but i do change my oil and filter about ever 30 or 40 runs so i'm sure it keeps most of the clutch dust from building up in the engine..
Smokin I ordered the oem steels and fibers, I also ordered the Brocks spacers. You say you use 3...were all 5 too stiff?
Yes i found 5 to be to much for me .. I'm happy with 3 ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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pazx14rider
Zone Head
Posts: 953
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posted June 02, 2009 03:58 PM
Ok thanks Smokin...I just got the clutches out the plates have hot spots but thats really all i see wrong. Hardly any clutch material in the basket and oil looked ok. I dont want this to turn into an oil thread but what ru running and reccomend. Ive been running kawi 10/40 with kawi filter
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted June 02, 2009 04:38 PM
quote:
Ok thanks Smokin...I just got the clutches out the plates have hot spots but thats really all i see wrong. Hardly any clutch material in the basket and oil looked ok. I dont want this to turn into an oil thread but what ru running and reccomend. Ive been running kawi 10/40 with kawi filter
Hot spots are normal ... I had great luck with Mobil One Syn 10 w 30 car oil ...Kawi filter is fine but a little costly ...
Don't toss out you olds fibers or steels ...You can bead blast the old steels if they are not wrapped and reuse them down the road ...Check the old fibers and save the thicker ones for your next rebuild ...After you have two old sets laying around you can use the best of the two and make one good set ...Freebee ... 
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted June 02, 2009 04:42 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 3 Jun 2009 00:44
This is what my fibers look like after 200 passes on Mobil One Syn oil ...
As you can see the inner fibers seem to get the most wear ...The outside ones are thicker and reuseable in a another stack ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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pazx14rider
Zone Head
Posts: 953
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posted June 02, 2009 04:56 PM
hell i can probably get that for as much as im payin for kawi oil? still 10/40 smokin? Thats pretty much what my fibers look like. Now i looked at the plates im thinkin there are supposed to be different thickness plates on the end or inner? am i right? they all looked the same i thought
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted June 02, 2009 05:03 PM
quote:
hell i can probably get that for as much as im payin for kawi oil? still 10/40 smokin? Thats pretty much what my fibers look like. Now i looked at the plates im thinkin there are supposed to be different thickness plates on the end or inner? am i right? they all looked the same i thought
10w30 syn mobil one is what you want , about 23.00 bucks for 4 QTs at wally world ...... Yes the inside and outside fiber are different sizes ..The insides one are all the same ...
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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pazx14rider
Zone Head
Posts: 953
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posted June 03, 2009 06:11 AM
K thanks for all your help smokin and everyone else
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