blkrx7
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted May 11, 2009 03:37 PM
Broken Frame, anyone seen one like this?
So, while getting tires installed at a shop, my 14 slipped off it's side stand and took a soft landing. The shop's been very accommodating about the incident, and agreed to replace the plastics.
There was no real damage, a scuff on the mirror, side plastics, and my slider. But nothing smashed, no cracks, almost all the faring tabs remained in tact.
However after taking the bike home, peeling back plastics, I find the frame's split, in two spots, right above the engine mounts.
The shop doesn't believe this was caused by the fall, and I've only just noticed as a result of careful inspection. We've contacted Kawasaki, and they've decided this isn't recall material, and requests the entire frame to be shipped out to them for them to examine. If they feel it's defective, they'll consider a replacement.
So, this is going to Kill my entire riding season on the off chance they determine this to be an actual fault. And, if they decide this isn't a common issue, my 15k machine just turned into a box of parts on the floor.
I'm too old for wheelies, and managed nearly 20,000km's out of my last set of tires (if that's any guage of my riding style). It's never been to the track. This is a purely sport touring machine for me.
I'd really like to know if anyone's seen a break in this location on another 14? I'd really like to convince Kawi that this is a defect, and not a result of abuse. I've sanded down the left side, and dyed the area for clarity. The right side is untouched.
Attached are photos,
Right Side
Left Side
Failing finding anyone who's seen it prior, any guesses as to what would cause a gusset to split into two halves, like pancakes? It's a bizzare failure.
Paul
  
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted May 11, 2009 03:44 PM
1st time for me to see it cracked there ..good luck with KHI ..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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starchild
Expert Class
Posts: 366
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posted May 11, 2009 04:55 PM
sorry for the problem. it may seem like a lot of work but you might just be better off welding it up yourself. after dealing with kawi and a dealer i chose to weld it up myself.my frame cracked at the recall point.after having motor work done by jem motorsports in ma. they reused connecting rod bolts and nuts they covered their a##es with no shame.and kawi was no help at all. consider shipping and stripping the bike down and kawi dragging their a##es and they could tell you to screw .it might be something to think about.my frame broke right in the middle of the bead. never seen anything like that either.
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jay
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted May 11, 2009 05:03 PM
How damaged was the slider, and where does it attach? Most of the 14 sliders are long, with a lot of leverage, and have broken frames in small accidents.
Shane
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted May 11, 2009 05:05 PM
Yup i have seen one like that after a slam down 12:00 wheely and ending up in a concret ditch ..Damn near killed the rider ... Cracks like that just don't happen without some trama ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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blkrx7
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted May 11, 2009 05:35 PM
Slider was best described as 'scuffed'. The mechanic tried to catch it and wound up pinched under the machine. It was a very soft lay-down.
I can't prove the frame was damaged when it tipped, but I was hoping if someone else had suffered a crack in the same spot from a tip-over i'd be in buisness to at least prove this isn't a defect. Or, the exact opposite and find someone who's found this crack with no tip-over at all. At which point i'd have some ammo to use with KHI.
Everyone who might hold liability is swinging a finger elsewhere. And i'm left without a ride. I'd just like a firm answer as to why it's cracked, and follow up in the right direction.
Apart from those two identical splits on either side of the machine, it's straight and has certainly never been in an accident. It has all origional plastics on, and are 99% un-marked.
I could swear i'm getting a vibration through the pegs and bars that was never there prior, but when anything's amiss, i'm hyper sensitive to everything. Who knows.
I'd weld it myself, except, having to tear a machine down into bits sucks, and, it's un-sellable as-is as KHI's branded the VIN by now, and my insurance company has been notified. And i'd rather not be cutting apart gussets on a nearly brand new motorcycle and welding in my own. I'd expect it, and ride accordingly on a classic restored machine. This was supposed to be a reliable way to pack on a few miles.
Paul
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted May 11, 2009 07:28 PM
quote:
Slider was best described as 'scuffed'. The mechanic tried to catch it and wound up pinched under the machine. It was a very soft lay-down.
I can't prove the frame was damaged when it tipped, but I was hoping if someone else had suffered a crack in the same spot from a tip-over i'd be in buisness to at least prove this isn't a defect. Or, the exact opposite and find someone who's found this crack with no tip-over at all. At which point i'd have some ammo to use with KHI.
Everyone who might hold liability is swinging a finger elsewhere. And i'm left without a ride. I'd just like a firm answer as to why it's cracked, and follow up in the right direction.
Apart from those two identical splits on either side of the machine, it's straight and has certainly never been in an accident. It has all origional plastics on, and are 99% un-marked.
I could swear i'm getting a vibration through the pegs and bars that was never there prior, but when anything's amiss, i'm hyper sensitive to everything. Who knows.
I'd weld it myself, except, having to tear a machine down into bits sucks, and, it's un-sellable as-is as KHI's branded the VIN by now, and my insurance company has been notified. And i'd rather not be cutting apart gussets on a nearly brand new motorcycle and welding in my own. I'd expect it, and ride accordingly on a classic restored machine. This was supposed to be a reliable way to pack on a few miles.
Paul
Well paul you never know ... I have seen dealers crash a bike and fix it , put it back on the show room floor and sell it for brand new... Paul you have to understand that you have one post and we don't know you ..We have had more than a few people come on here and claim damage and never rode the bike hard , only to find out later that wasn't even close to what really happened ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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kawasakijockey
Pro
Posts: 1876
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posted May 11, 2009 08:30 PM
If the frame is cracked your insurance company will more than likely total your bike if you went that route.
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Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted May 11, 2009 09:07 PM
quote:
Yup i have seen one like that after a slam down 12:00 wheely and ending up in a concret ditch ..Damn near killed the rider ... Cracks like that just don't happen without some trama ..
and drama 
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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blkrx7
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted May 12, 2009 04:52 AM
quote:
Well paul you never know ... I have seen dealers crash a bike and fix it , put it back on the how room floor and sell it for brand new... Paul you have to understand that you have one post and we don't know you ..We have had more than a few people come on here and claim damage and never rode the bike hard , only to find out later that wasn't even close to what really happened ..
Oh, I didn't mean to sound combative, or argumentitive. Your absolutely right, this could be the result of absolutely anything. I didn't expect any 'credit' by signing up, I was genuinely just trolling for hopeful replies from a bunch of people sufering the same issue and interested to hear how it developed on their machines.
Either it was user-related damage, or a defect. I just wanted to know where I need to start poking 
I could be the next jason britton for all anyone knows. In fact, perhaps if 10 guys who 12 oclock their 14's all day developed the same issue, i'd in fact earn a little undeserved respect heh...
It's getting trucked into a dealer this morning for some advice, i'm going to see what it's worth as scrap, and/or if they'll take it on trade. I swore i'd never buy the same bike twice in a row (too many to try) but I don't feel i've even gotten to know this one yet. Perhaps i'll see what the 09's are worth.
Thanks
Paul
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extrapilot
Expert Class
2008 ZX14
Posts: 155
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posted May 12, 2009 10:19 AM
What year is this bike?
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'pilot
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blkrx7
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted May 12, 2009 05:41 PM
06.
Dealer's putting in some time with this, and we're trying for some good-will warranty. I'll keep the thread updated.
Paul
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ZREXER
Expert Class
Posts: 492
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posted May 13, 2009 06:35 PM
 Edited By: ZREXER on 14 May 2009 02:39
Have not seen anyone post pictures with cracks in that part of the frame before. The cracking looks exactly what I saw on my '06 on the lower shock mount cross member. Just a white line running either through the weld or beside it.
I bet there are a a lot of '14 riders with similar cracks who will not be aware of the problem until they have an out right frame failure. Many riders probably have not given their bike a really critical going over or are in denial when they see the signs of a crack. Even those with '06"s and '07's that had there frames inspected and passed last year. All that means is your frame passed on that day..how about 6 months or a couple of years down the road?
I really miss the '14 performance wise, but enjoy the peace of mind of not worrying about frame failure while hauling ass through a high speed sweeper now.
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted May 14, 2009 04:53 AM
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say those don't really look like cracks. The one on kickstand side looks like where they butted the frame together and welded it...then ground some material off. It looks like it has paint coating in it so I wouldn't call it a crack. The right side almost the same. The only way to really tell is, sand down the area and take a look. I think you would be better off repairing it yourself than stripping down the whole bike for nothing. This is just my IMO...but whatever you decide, goodluck.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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blkrx7
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted May 14, 2009 05:19 AM
Flatout, the kickstand side has been 'blued' for clairity. It looked precisely like the right side, a single white 'hairline' directly down the center of the gusset still painted black. I thought it was a scratch in the paint. So I sanded it down.
The 'scratch' continued through. At which point I pulled the right side farings off to inspect the opposite side to find the exact same "mark". I did not sand down the right side, as I didn't want to destroy any clues as to what caused the issue or worse, make it look like I was trying to hide some form of damage. Even that being said, the dealer and mechanics can't even come up with a wild guess as to how it would be possible, accident or not, to repeat that kind of a bizzare failure.
It was difficult to take a photo of it after being sanded, as the crack tends to blend in when it's a shiny aluminum surface that's been sanded down smooth. A little blue dye and it seeps into the crack increasing contrast and makes a photo a little easier to see.
Again, I would repair it myself, except i'd really like to know what caused the issue first. And of course, in order to be repaired properly it needs to be totally stripped, media blasted, cut out the old gussets and weld in new ones. I'm not a qualified motorcycle mechanic, and while i'm not in any way shy about doing my own work, tearing every nut and bolt off of a nearly new machine is outside the scope of a shade-tree mechanic. And IMO, frames should not be a 'maintenence item' that needs this level of work every 12,000 miles with no explaination as to why.
Secondly, both kawi and insurance are aware of the situation which makes the bike not streetable, or resaleable as anything except parts now. Neither situation, makes me happy as i'm sure anyone could imagine.
FWIW, this frame is porous enough to look like the moon on the neck. I've got what look like paint fisheye's around the airbox that are the better part of completely through holes. Inspecting the inside of the airbox/chassis area shows spots where it looks like black paint has penetrated through the porous areas and wound up inside the air-box probably during manufacturing.
If the dealer does get anywhere with KHI, and strips that frame, i'll try and snap a few photos before they ship it out. Hopefully, it's a designed for manufacturing tolerance in the casting proccess, and not unusual. Sure gives me the willies looking at it though.
Paul
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pissear
Expert Class
Professional Cockis Slap Peer
Posts: 309
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posted May 14, 2009 05:26 AM
Year Killing Me, Larry!
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted May 14, 2009 05:41 AM
I seen the blue on there it just still didn't look like a crack too me. I'll go home tonight and take a look at my bike. I agree frames should not need maintance. I rather see you be safe than sorry...
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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blkrx7
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted May 14, 2009 05:51 AM
No, I agree, it looks like a black mark in the photo. But I can catch a fingernail on both sides. Here's another shot of the right and left, you can see the gussets really split in two, and in fact moved probably 10 thou on the right. Enough to catch the flash on the bottom edge.
The left side was taken just as I started to sand but before finishing or dyeing it.
If this is a pre-existing issue, I guarantee there are others with it as well. If it was from the tip over, or defect, then pretty unlikely i'll see another one again.
But convincing guys to tear of plastics and look is a tough case to make
Paul
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extrapilot
Expert Class
2008 ZX14
Posts: 155
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posted May 14, 2009 05:59 AM
This kind of issue begs the question why did Kawi revise the way the make the frame in the gen 2. Did they know that the first process was not the best they could do?
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'pilot
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted May 14, 2009 06:21 AM
Take it to a certified, experienced welder and have it welded. Something about that crack looks like it is a manufacturing defect, not an in-service defect. Let a professional who has spent his life inspecting and repairing welds, forgings, and cracks look it over. Then go with what he says. A aluminum certified welder could have that ground out and welded with minimal access, for 2 hours charges ($150 +/-), then have it powdercoated again (I wouldnt pay more than $50 to have those spots powder coated).
Skip the advice of any welder with less than 10 years experience (min 5 working with aluminum or ANY welder that is experienced at welding Titanium), because welders 'lose' knowledge progressively for the first 10 years. Once they realize how much they dont know, they finally start 'learning'. 16 years of inspecting welds and dealing with welders has taught me that!
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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extrapilot
Expert Class
2008 ZX14
Posts: 155
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posted May 14, 2009 06:26 AM
Very good advice sticks.
Seems to me that weld got to hot and made the surrounding area brittle, more susceptible to cracking.
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'pilot
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pdonnell
Expert Class
Posts: 130
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posted May 14, 2009 06:30 AM
Go down to your local small claims court. Some allow it over the internet. And pay $30 to sue the dealer for the cost of frame replacement. (get a bid from another authorized shop) And plead your case. N one can deny that there is a probability, no matter how slight, you tip over caused this. If you lose then go up KHI ass and if that doesn't work weld. Or ebay you plastics. BTW I need some plastics, let me know when there for sale.
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted May 14, 2009 12:24 PM
I wonder if the head stays were loose , might cause that...?
I have seen aluminum headstays crack on motocross bikes from the vibration, the bolts were loctited, so they did not fall or back out, they just were not torqued to spec, there was enough vibration allowed to form cracks
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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LLcooljebb
Expert Class
Upgrade I Must
Posts: 146
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posted May 14, 2009 11:36 PM
quote:
Take it to a certified, experienced welder and have it welded. Something about that crack looks like it is a manufacturing defect, not an in-service defect. Let a professional who has spent his life inspecting and repairing welds, forgings, and cracks look it over. Then go with what he says. A aluminum certified welder could have that ground out and welded with minimal access, for 2 hours charges ($150 +/-), then have it powdercoated again (I wouldnt pay more than $50 to have those spots powder coated).
Skip the advice of any welder with less than 10 years experience (min 5 working with aluminum or ANY welder that is experienced at welding Titanium), because welders 'lose' knowledge progressively for the first 10 years. Once they realize how much they dont know, they finally start 'learning'. 16 years of inspecting welds and dealing with welders has taught me that!
I agree, get it welded by a pro and ride it. When it comes to selling it just be straight-up and explain/show the issue. I would buy that bike if it was welded properly, except I've got my own used 06 with its fair share of abuse...gives it personality.
____________
"no time to be void or save up on life
you got to spend it all.."
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117 in a 30
Novice Class
Posts: 43
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posted May 14, 2009 11:50 PM
blkrx7, mine has same cracks, found them when removing flies 2000 miles, have 13000 now & havent seem to change any. Mines never seen 12:00 wheelies,it happened shortly after i bought it, or they were their when i bought it, was the first time i had it apart that far.
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