Shane661
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posted April 26, 2009 09:15 AM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 26 Apr 2009 17:16
Air Shifter Setup Tips?
I've been having some shifting issues. It seems to be only when I am lapping the bike at the track. It shifts fine right off of the trailer. Sometimes it won't go in, 2-3. The other day it popped back to the lower gear, which was not nice.
I have increased the kill time, but I am looking for any other setup tips. I always check the solenoid after I change the bottle...I disconnect the line and test operation. So, from that aspect I know that the kill, bottle pressure and solenoid are all working. In fact, when it misses the gear I still feel the kill activate...just no shift.
So...
1) How much regulated pressure are you guys running? I don't have a gauge on there right now, and I'm wondering where it needs to be. I know 2-3 is problematic on the 14 (I checked with R&D on this)...so I want to make sure pressure is at the high end of spec.
2) How much kill time? My kill box just has a little dial potentiometer...no markings.
3) What is the best ignition kill out there? What is the most precise unit you can get?
My shift ram is about as vertical as I can get it, and the hose from the solenoid is about 12". I will be mounting the solenoid right to the ram before my next track outing.
Any other tips would be great. Thanks.
Shane
  
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06redzx14
Pro
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posted April 26, 2009 09:19 AM
I run mine at 140 psi kill time is at 65 ms i'm using a schnitz kill box, but I don't know if they are still made
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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smokinZX14
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posted April 26, 2009 09:30 AM
Shane check your ram ...Make sure it has some slop on the mounting points ( Upper and Lower points ) If it binds at all it will not shift right ... I ream the eyelets out before install and give them pleanty of slop .. 65 MS kill time seems to work well... I have run as low as 125 psi and as high as 150 and both worked fine ..
Also ( i see this alot ) You just cant thumb the shifter button ...You have to really poke it or push it hard or you it will miss shift ...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Compton
Zone Head
Posts: 969
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posted April 26, 2009 09:31 AM
if its popping out of gear, thats never a good sign.
i have the cycle tek setup on mine, with braided lines and the solenoid right on the shift ram. works great for me.
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b.w.
zx14, little longer, little louder, little lower.
08 Busa, just a little longer and louder and lower than the 14
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Shane661
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posted April 26, 2009 09:38 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 26 Apr 2009 17:38
quote:
Also ( i see this alot ) You just cant thumb the shifter button ...You have to really poke it or push it hard or you it will miss shift ...
Yeah, that was my first thought. The kill is a preset time...but the shifter solenoid only goes as long as you press it...so a quick tap might not do it. I made a change in that regard, but still had some issues. I actually focused on my button presses and it still wouldn't make the gear on a few occasions.
I was actually thinking about a small circuit to set the time that solenoid is activated, so that it always holds the solenoid open for X amount of time. But I don't want to overly complicate things.
I am going to check every little thing I can mechanically, and focus on my technique as well.
Thanks.
Shane
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Shane661
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posted April 26, 2009 09:41 AM
quote:
if its popping out of gear, thats never a good sign.
i have the cycle tek setup on mine, with braided lines and the solenoid right on the shift ram. works great for me.
It has only done that once...just like a weak upshift can cause. After that run I took it back to the pits and increased the kill time. Then I made 4 passes without issue.
I also have a Cycle Tek setup, but poly lines. What fittings did you get to do the braided? 1/8" threaded to AN?? What # size of braided line?
Shane
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Compton
Zone Head
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posted April 26, 2009 09:53 AM
http://www.schnitzracingstore.com/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=2566024&showprevnext=1
i use this as the regulator. the rest are just 1/8th to -4an fittings. and one 1/8th to 1/8th for the noid' to the shifter ram. mount a 3oz bottle under the stock seat.
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b.w.
zx14, little longer, little louder, little lower.
08 Busa, just a little longer and louder and lower than the 14
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Shane661
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posted April 26, 2009 09:57 AM
quote:
http://www.schnitzracingstore.com/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=2566024&showprevnext=1
i use this as the regulator. the rest are just 1/8th to -4an fittings. and one 1/8th to 1/8th for the noid' to the shifter ram. mount a 3oz bottle under the stock seat.
I have a regulator attached to the valve for now, but I can come off of that with the same setup. Thanks!
Shane
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Shane661
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posted April 26, 2009 10:03 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 26 Apr 2009 18:04
Also, on the 1/8" fittings...are they NPT fittings? They didn't look like tapered pipe fittings..
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Compton
Zone Head
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posted April 26, 2009 10:29 AM
can't use the regulator that comes with the cycle tek kit. i just needed up using that regulator and my own lines and fittings. the shift ram i'm almost positive its 1/8th npt, same with the noid.
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b.w.
zx14, little longer, little louder, little lower.
08 Busa, just a little longer and louder and lower than the 14
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Silver08
Expert Class
Posts: 461
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posted April 26, 2009 11:58 AM
when you say you dont have a gauge, is that on the low pressure side, or high pressure side? Too much pressure on the solenoid and it will not shift sometimes.
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08 ZX14
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Shane661
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posted April 26, 2009 12:00 PM
quote:
when you say you dont have a gauge, is that on the low pressure side, or high pressure side? Too much pressure on the solenoid and it will not shift sometimes.
I don't have one on the regulated (low) side. I am installing one this week...
I was just wondering where it should be set..and it sounds like 125-150 range...
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Silver08
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posted April 26, 2009 12:07 PM
you definately need one on the low side. Most switching valves (solenoids) are only rated to 120psi, even though we run more pressure than that sometimes. I have started trying lower pressure and 120PSI has worked without a hiccup for me the last 3 times at the track.
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08 ZX14
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Shane661
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posted April 26, 2009 12:09 PM
I should have two of these darn gauges lying around the house somewhere...but I can't find them!
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Silver08
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posted April 26, 2009 12:18 PM
if you need something to get by, go to the local auto store and look for a gauge that fits portable air tanks, they are usually 1/8th NPT,
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08 ZX14
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Silver08
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posted April 26, 2009 12:22 PM
put my low guage on the high pressure side by accident on the regulator, didnt like 1000psi too much on a 200psi gauge, LOL, air tank gauge worked great for the weekend
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08 ZX14
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Shane661
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posted April 26, 2009 04:24 PM
I found the gauge; I am showing 140-150 on the low pressure side.
Maybe the increased kill time will take care of it, but I am going to go over everything suggested here.
Thanks again...
Shane
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Bently
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posted April 26, 2009 04:29 PM
Shane I'm running the same set up as you and have no troulbe at all. It's all set just how I got it from Matt. Like smoking says make sure you have slop and make sure the ram is adjusted right so it goes all the way in the next gear.
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Shane661
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posted April 26, 2009 04:32 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 27 Apr 2009 00:33
It's odd how it only shows up when I'm hot lapping the bike....
No problems at Maxton, on the street, or in the morning at the track...
And 99% on the 2-3 shift....now, my bike has only 1500 miles on the trans, so it could also be an issue. Maybe I should switch to synthetic as well?
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14nooby
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posted April 26, 2009 04:40 PM
Shane, are you sure your not putting your foot up over the shifter? That will make it miss a shift to. It makes sense because the 2-3 shift is when I finally get my feet up on the pegs.
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Shane661
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posted April 26, 2009 04:43 PM
quote:
Shane, are you sure your not putting your foot up over the shifter? That will make it miss a shift to. It makes sense because the 2-3 shift is when I finally get my feet up on the pegs.
I've thought about that too. I'm making a change in the peg department that should help if that is the cause. Lot's of good ideas here....
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Bently
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posted April 26, 2009 04:46 PM
Shane I hot lapped 4 passes friday with no issues. would not think that would be an issue. I just have 10-40 suzuki oil in mine so I don't think oil is your problem either. Have you checked with matt he has some awsome customer service and I'm sure he could give you some pointers as well.
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Shane661
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posted April 26, 2009 04:52 PM
I've got a call in to Matt. Matt is a great guy, for sure...
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KZScott
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posted April 26, 2009 06:29 PM
2) How much kill time? My kill box just has a little dial potentiometer...no markings.
i used 65ms on the schnitz kill box(150psi). it has a bunch of dip switches so it goes in 5ms increments. i wouldnt use one with just a dial, i think the mps box is like that too?
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