My14
Novice Class
Rocket lover
Posts: 49
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posted April 16, 2009 09:28 AM
ZX-14 Exhaust
Has anyone used or know if the numbers that Two Brothers claim on their full system are real? They claim their Juice Box has a fail safe that the PCIII doesn't. I just bought a new '08 14 and I can get Two Brothers full system with carbon fiber can and juice box for about $1100 claiming 15hp gain. I have the slipons on my '08 Busa and I love the sound but the full system on Busa only gets about 8-9 hp so I may just leave it with the slipons. Appreciate any help on this subject and I would not be against going a whole different route if the power and money numbers were much better!!! Thanks!!!
TommyC
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gilberjj
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posted April 16, 2009 11:20 AM
2 brothers are garbage in my opinion. They are my least favorite exhaust, and ANY slip-on, no matter the brand will not make the same power as a full system (besides maybe the boz bros moira). I wrote a review on zx14.net of all the exhausts I've had, here it is.....
I'm getting my 4th full system this week. I've had (all are full systems, not slip-ons).......
Tsukigi stainless oval (plus an extra shorty muffler)
Pros: The Tsukigi has a great sound that is much like a sport bike. That being said, it has a unique sound that I can't really explain, excellent quality with better then perfect welds. Robust, and heavy duty.
Cons: Doesn't make the peak power of the larger header systems (although it looks like the cannon makes a little more up top). It also sticks down below the drain plug and can get damaged/flattened if you ride your bike lowered. Sometimes sounds a little zingy. Heavy.
Muzzy m10 (old style, not m14 header)
Pros: Free map from Muzzys.com. Awesome sound! Best sounding system that I've ever heard on a 14. Real deep sound but gets throaty as rpms increase.
Cons: Similar power to Tsukigi but lacking when compared to ti-force, cannon, m14, and brocks. Mapping from muzzys.com is mediocre. My Tsukigi HPC map was better. Header sticks down below drain plug guard, and can get damaged/flattened like Tsukigi. Header is mig welded, not tig welded. Small primaries on header.
note: I believe this system makes a touch more power then the Tsukigi stainless oval up top, but it's pretty close.
Muzzy m14 sidewinder
Pros: Very well built system (nice tig welds)! Large stepped primaries. Great fitment. Great power (from ninjaboys experience, not mine).
Cons: Kinda heavy. Need to buy a oil filter relocator to be used. Can't be used in conjunction with some aftermarket clutch covers.
Brocks alien head (getting it this week)
To be continued......
I would suggest getting the Muzzy m14 over the Tsukigi (if you want a regular can style exhaust system) because it makes a touch more power, but mostly because the m14 system tucks VERY nicely under the bike and doesn't stick out below the oil pan! Both systems are built well, but the Tsukigi gets the nod in quality.
For race systems, I have always liked the look of the Brocks Alien Head and I'm getting mine SOON (in transit). Few will debate that any other system makes more power then the Brocks, and the customer service is outstanding (both from my experience and from what I've heard). It is also the lightest (8lbs for the full system), but has thin header material because of this. It doesn't tuck quite as tight as the m14 systems, but is still tucked nicely, and doesn't protrude out further then the oil drain guard.
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My14
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Posts: 49
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posted April 16, 2009 02:10 PM
Thanks for your expertise! How did you arrive at your conclusion of the two brothers and what do you think about Brocks new double can full system for the 14 and Busa?
TommyC
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gilberjj
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posted April 16, 2009 02:26 PM
quote:
Thanks for your expertise! How did you arrive at your conclusion of the two brothers and what do you think about Brocks new double can full system for the 14 and Busa?
TommyC
I don't know much about the two brothers juice box, but what I do know is the zx14 comes stock with what our community has called "flies." They are secondary throttle plates that limit the low end torque by almost 50%!!!!! This is ABSOLUTELY a mistake and I believe that every zx14 owner should yank those flies out. However, in order to do this, you need to properly retune the motorcycle because the motorcycle is capable of another 25 lb ft of torque at around 3000 rpms. With a lot more air able to enter the combustion chamber at your discretion (using the throttle), the motorcycle will require a lot more fuel. I doubt the juice box has a tune for a motorcycle with pulled flies. I would guess that 90% of the zx14 riders on this forum have pulled the flies with no ill effects. Get a good pipe and a power commander (they are relatively inexpensive) and if you have a problem or question we can all help you. If you need tuning help with the juice box, good luck.....
Now about 2 brothers..... Their systems are made for sound and aesthetics. They don't do vast testing like all the major exhaust manufacturers (yosh, brocks, muzzys, ti-force, akropovic, leo vince, etc...). Plus I think they are REALLY ugly.... To me they scream "look at me, look at me" because they offer little for performance compared to how much sound they exert! My Muzzy m10 was loud, as well as my alien head, but they also backed it up with performance! You could expect MAYBE 10 whp gain with the 2 bothers in conjunction with the juice box, but could on more like 5-7 whp. A brocks or muzzy system is a PROVEN 15-20 whp.
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pazx14rider
Zone Head
Posts: 953
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posted April 16, 2009 02:43 PM
I have two buddies with two brothers pipes and juice boxes. They both hate the juice box...say its the biggest piece of shit and should have gotten a pc3. They both drag raced there bikes stock and both ran better numbers stock than they do with the exhaust and juice box...so in other words dont waste your money.
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gilberjj
Needs a job
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posted April 16, 2009 02:53 PM
quote:
I have two buddies with two brothers pipes and juice boxes. They both hate the juice box...say its the biggest piece of shit and should have gotten a pc3. They both drag raced there bikes stock and both ran better numbers stock than they do with the exhaust and juice box...so in other words dont waste your money.
I agree! The juice boxes were UNDOUBTEDLY tuned for highest number on the dyno. However, when you're out on the road the bike will run lean due to the fact that our bikes have pretty good ram air systems! Get a system that is tuned for the road, not the dyno.
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My14
Novice Class
Rocket lover
Posts: 49
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posted April 16, 2009 03:18 PM
Thanks again! Your knowledge far exceeds mine. The T.B. people claim 12+hp with pipe and an additional 2-3 with j box (about 4-5 hp less on my Busa) plus they claim that their box has a failsafe built-in that prevents you from turning your motor to toast that the PCIII doesn't. Of course I know that every momma thinks they have the best looking baby and there is no question with regard to all out competitive racing that probably Brocks and PCIII would be the ultimate but in my particular case I would not mind giving up 2-3 hp to save thousands of dollars. Steve, at Brocks, quoted me $1953 for their system alone not counting the PCIII cost...add that in and I can outfit both my 14 and Busa with the best Two Brothers carbon fiber systems plus Juice boxes for less than the price of one Brocks and PCIII. I also noticed Two Brothers has documented there hp claims in print and I have seen no other manufacturer do that as yet. I don't mind the looks of TB and I love the sound my Busa has with the slip-ons but bottomline, if Two Brothers are pure schit then I will throw the ones I have in the dumpster. Total objectivity is what I seek to make the smartest decision. Any can would be better looking with my name on it instead of manufacturer's in my opinion. Not to be insulting to anyone but the main reason why I did not jump on Muzzy is the butt ugly giant Muzzy lettering. All the friggin' systems are over priced as I see it and at almost 60 yrs. old, I ain't going to worry about a tenth or two as I don't intend to track perform, just some street stuff for a buzz and to replace the Viagra!!! Capiche??? Thanks again for all your help. I hope maybe I have provided enough info to give ya'll an idea of where I am coming from.
TommyC
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TommyC
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My14
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posted April 16, 2009 03:35 PM
quote:
I have two buddies with two brothers pipes and juice boxes. They both hate the juice box...say its the biggest piece of shit and should have gotten a pc3. They both drag raced there bikes stock and both ran better numbers stock than they do with the exhaust and juice box...so in other words dont waste your money.
Wow! Thanks...if that is 100% accurate about worse times after the mods then that little tidbit will cinch it for me! How do they explain there outcome specifically...the pipe or the juice box?? Weather, hangover?? How close were the times? Did they demand their money back? The franchise that offered me the system gives a 100% money back guarantee in writing!!! So if the products resulted is lost power for my bikes, the store (Cycle Gear, Fort Worth, Tx.) will eat it!!!
TommyC
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TommyC
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gilberjj
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posted April 16, 2009 03:42 PM
You're looking at the most expensive system they have!!!! Their other systems are 1065 from brocks, but you can get I beleive 10% off of that price. YOu should shop around more......
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Bawls
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re-learning to ride
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posted April 16, 2009 04:40 PM
the shorty gen3 was 9 and some change after my 10% military discount. it has very good street manners but still puts out the same numbers that brock is known for. the muzzy is great bang for the buck, but doesn't have the same tech/ map support as brocks. tsukigi is a great quality but doesn't quite put out the numbers. the yosh r77 is a a good quality pipe that sounds like shit and is down on power. if you're interested in slip ons at all, your best bet is area p. they are great people with some of the nicest products you'll find. i made the transition from my shorty gen3 can to my smeg and haven't gone back. the street meg is amazing. good luck with your purchase. in your search, you should try giving the owners of all of the companies a shout. customer service goes a long way in getting your moneys worth out of a product.
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Best 60ft: 1.42
Best 1/8th: 5.97
Best 1/8th MPH: 119
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Willbkari2
Parking Attendant
Posts: 17
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posted April 16, 2009 06:06 PM
2 Brothers are garbage as said.
I run the Yoshimura R-77 and PC-3. Very happy.
Simply said,
Good Luck Bro,
Will
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My14
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Rocket lover
Posts: 49
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posted April 17, 2009 06:29 AM
quote:
the shorty gen3 was 9 and some change after my 10% military discount. it has very good street manners but still puts out the same numbers that brock is known for. the muzzy is great bang for the buck, but doesn't have the same tech/ map support as brocks. tsukigi is a great quality but doesn't quite put out the numbers. the yosh r77 is a a good quality pipe that sounds like shit and is down on power. if you're interested in slip ons at all, your best bet is area p. they are great people with some of the nicest products you'll find. i made the transition from my shorty gen3 can to my smeg and haven't gone back. the street meg is amazing. good luck with your purchase. in your search, you should try giving the owners of all of the companies a shout. customer service goes a long way in getting your moneys worth out of a product.
Mille grazie Bawls!!! I dig your "sound" approach!!! Thus far Brocks have been the most impressive over the phone and the ironic part is I worked in Dayton, Ohio in the 60's and the guy at Brocks said his grannie lived in Fairborn where I graduated from High School 41 yrs ago! Small world. With the way the economy is, I got a feeling that there may be some deals on Brocks and others comin' down the pike if I just stay patient! Capiche? Thanks again to you and the rest of the contributors on my exhaust question!!!
TommyC
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TommyC
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My14
Novice Class
Rocket lover
Posts: 49
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posted April 17, 2009 06:51 AM
quote:
the shorty gen3 was 9 and some change after my 10% military discount. it has very good street manners but still puts out the same numbers that brock is known for. the muzzy is great bang for the buck, but doesn't have the same tech/ map support as brocks. tsukigi is a great quality but doesn't quite put out the numbers. the yosh r77 is a a good quality pipe that sounds like shit and is down on power. if you're interested in slip ons at all, your best bet is area p. they are great people with some of the nicest products you'll find. i made the transition from my shorty gen3 can to my smeg and haven't gone back. the street meg is amazing. good luck with your purchase. in your search, you should try giving the owners of all of the companies a shout. customer service goes a long way in getting your moneys worth out of a product.
Hey Bawls! Small world again! Just checked your profile and both my boys are in San Diego. My youngest, Monte, ex-Seals Buds class, just completed San Diego marathon. Josh, the oldest, and Monte both are Night Club security out there somewhere. Their last name is Farst , maybe you have run into them along the way.
TommyC
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TommyC
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted April 17, 2009 07:27 AM
quote:
quote:
I have two buddies with two brothers pipes and juice boxes. They both hate the juice box...say its the biggest piece of shit and should have gotten a pc3. They both drag raced there bikes stock and both ran better numbers stock than they do with the exhaust and juice box...so in other words dont waste your money.
Wow! Thanks...if that is 100% accurate about worse times after the mods then that little tidbit will cinch it for me! How do they explain there outcome specifically...the pipe or the juice box?? Weather, hangover?? How close were the times? Did they demand their money back? The franchise that offered me the system gives a 100% money back guarantee in writing!!! So if the products resulted is lost power for my bikes, the store (Cycle Gear, Fort Worth, Tx.) will eat it!!!
TommyC
I noticed you are from Ft. Worth. Me too and so is Wee. No PM
email labartay@charter.net
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Sticks_n_Stones
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Posts: 3930
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posted April 17, 2009 09:00 AM
 Edited By: Sticks_n_Stones on 17 Apr 2009 17:15
I've been to both Fort Worth and San Diego. Hmm, when was your birthday?  
I owned a set of Two Brothers slip-ons, and I can attest to there making a noticeable, seat of the pants improvement. All stock, I could only throttle up the front tire in first gear reliably, after the Two Brothers I could throttle up second gear whenever I wanted. VERY noticeable to me. After I went to the Muzzy M14/M10 setup I got another perceptible increase in power (though not as noticeable as the stock-to-Two Brothers increase).
I loved the sound of the Two Brothers though! Lived in a small logging town at the time, with a notorious Harley bar in town. I could always count on turning there heads when I decelled down to the city speed limit. Just made a cool sounding deep burble. Loved the dual exhaust look, too, but gave it up for power and weight savings. Here is the pics:
 
 
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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My14
Novice Class
Rocket lover
Posts: 49
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posted April 17, 2009 10:55 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I have two buddies with two brothers pipes and juice boxes. They both hate the juice box...say its the biggest piece of shit and should have gotten a pc3. They both drag raced there bikes stock and both ran better numbers stock than they do with the exhaust and juice box...so in other words dont waste your money.
Wow! Thanks...if that is 100% accurate about worse times after the mods then that little tidbit will cinch it for me! How do they explain there outcome specifically...the pipe or the juice box?? Weather, hangover?? How close were the times? Did they demand their money back? The franchise that offered me the system gives a 100% money back guarantee in writing!!! So if the products resulted is lost power for my bikes, the store (Cycle Gear, Fort Worth, Tx.) will eat it!!!
TommyC
I noticed you are from Ft. Worth. Me too and so is Wee. No PM
email labartay@charter.net
Just sent an email to the charter address Labs3 and got a no delivery possible notice! I tried brother!!! Figured, will be good riding tomorrow in the Lone Star state!! Yeehaa!!!!
TommyC
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TommyC
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My14
Novice Class
Rocket lover
Posts: 49
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posted April 17, 2009 11:19 AM
quote:
I've been to both Fort Worth and San Diego. Hmm, when was your birthday?
I owned a set of Two Brothers slip-ons, and I can attest to there making a noticeable, seat of the pants improvement. All stock, I could only throttle up the front tire in first gear reliably, after the Two Brothers I could throttle up second gear whenever I wanted. VERY noticeable to me. After I went to the Muzzy M14/M10 setup I got another perceptible increase in power (though not as noticeable as the stock-to-Two Brothers increase).
I loved the sound of the Two Brothers though! Lived in a small logging town at the time, with a notorious Harley bar in town. I could always count on turning there heads when I decelled down to the city speed limit. Just made a cool sounding deep burble. Loved the dual exhaust look, too, but gave it up for power and weight savings. Here is the pics:
Thanks a bunch Sticks and Stones. Your explanation sounds a tad more reasonable and objective! The Two Brothers I own were on the Busa when I bought it a couple weeks ago. The bike had 350mi on it with about $4-5 grand in mods already installed and I loved the sound of it. I have got absolute goose egg loyalty to any pipe co. just looking for most bang for the buck and avoiding butt ugly!!! Capiche? I am leaning towards smeg for the 14 but not sure yet. I do know the 14 is way more comfortable than the Busa but the Busa has a hair trigger throttle and a sound that'll smooth out the rough ride!!! Yeehaa!!! Just smoked a ZX-10 and a modified R1 the other day and the two youngsters about stroked when we pulled our helmets and they discovered I was 35 yrs their senior!!! Born 1950 when a good man named Ike ran this great country. Nowadays you best include ammo purchase alongside your bike mods and store up some vittles. If we can't whip 'em we can outrun their arses!!! Yeehaa!!!
TommyC Texas
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TommyC
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My14
Novice Class
Rocket lover
Posts: 49
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posted April 18, 2009 05:49 PM
quote:
I've been to both Fort Worth and San Diego. Hmm, when was your birthday?
I owned a set of Two Brothers slip-ons, and I can attest to there making a noticeable, seat of the pants improvement. All stock, I could only throttle up the front tire in first gear reliably, after the Two Brothers I could throttle up second gear whenever I wanted. VERY noticeable to me. After I went to the Muzzy M14/M10 setup I got another perceptible increase in power (though not as noticeable as the stock-to-Two Brothers increase).
I loved the sound of the Two Brothers though! Lived in a small logging town at the time, with a notorious Harley bar in town. I could always count on turning there heads when I decelled down to the city speed limit. Just made a cool sounding deep burble. Loved the dual exhaust look, too, but gave it up for power and weight savings. Here is the pics:
Is that a Muzzy full system with two cans and if so, it gives you more power and substantially less weight than the TB slipons? What are the approx. or precise numbers if you would be so kind! Thanks TommyC
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TommyC
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Bawls
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re-learning to ride
Posts: 2701
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posted April 18, 2009 07:13 PM
the muzzyz there is an m14 with a large diameter stepped 4-2-1 headder. great system, and at a great price to boot. i personally don't care for muzzys, but the pipe is great. if you're looking for a brocks pipe used, check the classifieds a couple of times a day or when one shows up you'll miss it.
i'm leaving in 3 weeks for deployment, but if your boys ride i might have to look them up when i get back. also, i'll be bringing my bike back to texas next spring to do some racing with my 47 year old dad who also rides a 14...
btw, i'm from 100 miles ne of dallas (paris tx)
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Best 60ft: 1.42
Best 1/8th: 5.97
Best 1/8th MPH: 119
Brockland Police Badge # 001
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My14
Novice Class
Rocket lover
Posts: 49
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posted April 18, 2009 09:04 PM
quote:
the muzzyz there is an m14 with a large diameter stepped 4-2-1 headder. great system, and at a great price to boot. i personally don't care for muzzys, but the pipe is great. if you're looking for a brocks pipe used, check the classifieds a couple of times a day or when one shows up you'll miss it.
i'm leaving in 3 weeks for deployment, but if your boys ride i might have to look them up when i get back. also, i'll be bringing my bike back to texas next spring to do some racing with my 47 year old dad who also rides a 14...
btw, i'm from 100 miles ne of dallas (paris tx)
May the creator of all watch over you brother, be careful! Hope to see you in East Texas real soon. Maybe me, you, and your dad can go for a putt, make that a scorch!!! Yeehaa!!!
TommyC
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TommyC
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted April 18, 2009 09:11 PM
Edited By: LAB3 on 19 Apr 2009 05:13
Hey Tommy
Good talking to you. Hope you can come over Sunday on the 08 Busa we will do some 2nd gear roll on's.... :-) Get that new 14 broken in.
I read that the TB juice box will not let you lean the fuel only rich adj. I will look more into it.
Louis
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted April 18, 2009 09:16 PM
quote:
Hey Tommy
Good talking to you. Hope you can come over Sunday on the 08 Busa we will do some 2nd gear roll on's.... :-) Get that new 14 broken in.
I read that the TB juice box will not let you lean the fuel only rich adj. I will look more into it.
Louis
Kennedale Sunday LAB?
wee
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted April 18, 2009 09:36 PM
No, I have my C14 seat on I am going for 1200 mile trip to Arkansas next week and I am trying the Connie seat tomorrow morning and test my new hub that connects my GPS, radar dector, and my Cobra GMRS radio. Sorting out all the wires in the tank bag. Come go with us in the morning and lets do a roll on at 60 in 2nd gear. I have to take the wife to Ennis (near the TMP Drag Strip) so she can play with her camera... Bluebonnets...sigh.
I am still setting high as a 4X4 :-) I still need a second longer chain for my other swing arm
I have Shane's Spencer Cycle extension bolted on and I have having them welded after I get them on and adjusted. Soon I will have it low and longer, need some seat time. it;s been a Long time on the tree.
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