tech73x
Expert Class
Posts: 106
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posted April 17, 2009 07:24 AM
Im not focused on convincing people one way or another. Its best to know the facts and then make your own decision. Which is why I bought both systems, weighed, measure and fit test. Not gonna run both because once you run it, you cant return it.
  
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted April 17, 2009 07:37 AM
quote:
Im not focused on convincing people one way or another. Its best to know the facts and then make your own decision. Which is why I bought both systems, weighed, measure and fit test. Not gonna run both because once you run it, you cant return it.
So you bought both of them to compare and you are sending the one you don't want back?
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted April 17, 2009 08:18 AM
Gotta admit tech73x, that sounds pretty odd. So you bought the Muzzy AND Brocks? Going to the nearest dealer, or bike watering hole on a friday night wasnt viable? Or simply looking around here for pics and quality reports from guys who've lived with all the various exhausts?
If I went off looks nweight n measures and such, I would have ended up with some Titanium European wunder:basket exhaust with a cool name instead of a basic pedestrian meat n potatoes exhaust like both Muzzy and Brocks makes.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted April 17, 2009 08:49 AM
quote:
Myself, I'll be happy with either pipe. I strongly considered he Muzzy, but I've wanted a Brocks since I first saw one.
I found one used making it cheaper than the full Muzzy system. I think I would be happy with either.
The one thing that did concern me is, reading through these forums, a few people have had issues with rough running using the Muzzy maps. I haven't seen any complaints with Brocks maps.
I have a map from Muzzy for the M14 and it runs smooth. I also have a Custom Map
that Shane sent me when I purchased his Muzzy M14 and it works Great for Drag racing.
Do you renenber what Muzzy system( M14, M10 or their standard system) had a rough running map?
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted April 17, 2009 09:19 AM
Rough running maps that I've seen (3 times) where caused by the throttle not being calibrated to the PCIII. Once properly calibrated the issue went away. Get your bike FULLY heated up and calibrate it: only takes a second, and a little bit off can mean a big difference!
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted April 17, 2009 09:43 AM
I never said ROUGH running map. The first system (my tsukigi) came with a map from Greg at HPC (zx14.net). It was a well tuned map and the bike ran great. When I changed my system to the original m10 with flies out I got a map from muzzy's. The map doesn't run "rough" but it isn't quite as nice as the HPC map for the Tsukigi that I was used to.
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted April 17, 2009 10:00 AM
I would love to try out some different maps for my bike, but with the exception of the ones on the Power Commander website, I dont have access to any.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted April 17, 2009 10:23 AM
One of my buddies has a wideband data logger. Making your own wot map would be better then ANY dyno testing. I want one of those for the track.....
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buck20
Parking Attendant
Posts: 19
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posted April 19, 2009 11:19 AM
You need a custom map for YOUR bike to get the perfect fuel air mix . Its all a shot in the dark until you have that done. when I first got my pipe and power comander( came pre mapped) what a joke! It was not even close to being right for my bike and the area I live in. Now its a freaking road monster.I used a dynojet dealer and service center. All the pipes out there are good it just depends on the sound you are looking for. I prefer Micron ultra light Titanium, every swinging peter has a muzzy system I just wanted to be a little different. Besides it aint about the pipe its about who's CRAZY!
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kawboy81
Expert Class
Busa Eater
Posts: 273
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posted April 19, 2009 11:53 AM
MUZZY FTW!
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07 LE bolt on bike
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Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted April 19, 2009 03:26 PM
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted April 19, 2009 03:40 PM
beat dat!
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted April 20, 2009 05:30 AM
What am I looking at? MR11 (fuel I assume) and _AH /versus _CT Single.
You guys should also notice that for the Blue run it was 6 deg.F cooler, and after 10k the Red graph starts running lean - yet still makes more power. Reminds me of the Muzzy maps where they compared the first gen exhaust to the second gen (M14 stepped header).
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted April 20, 2009 06:33 AM
quote:
I never said ROUGH running map. The first system (my tsukigi) came with a map from Greg at HPC (zx14.net). It was a well tuned map and the bike ran great. When I changed my system to the original m10 with flies out I got a map from muzzy's. The map doesn't run "rough" but it isn't quite as nice as the HPC map for the Tsukigi that I was used to.
I know YOU did not it and did not say YOU. It was lemosley01 on page 6 I just quoted his post on ROUGH running maps from Muzzy. Which I have Not had happen to me. I have two Muzzy maps, Shane's custom data logged map. None ran ROUGH.
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scificanada
Expert Class
Posts: 411
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posted April 20, 2009 09:30 AM
 Edited By: scificanada on 20 Apr 2009 17:32
I was a devout Muzzy fan for years on all my Kawasaki's... However... the BS I went through back in 06 when I got my 14 with Muzzy caused me to swear that I would never own another.
Brocks proved to be a far superior company when it came to customer support than Muzzy.
Its a shame, but Muzzy's customer support people have gotten too big for their boots.
Three years later, and my Brock is still perfroming flawlessly (as are his maps).
If you want to see the BS that went on back when this fabulous bike was released in 06, in regards to Muzzy vs. Brock pipes.... search the archives.
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Be a predator, not prey.
2006 Blue(the fastest colour) ZX14, Brock Ti Gen 3, Secondary Butterflies out, PCIII with Brock Map, Muzzy Frame Sliders.
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted April 22, 2009 07:21 PM
I am going to try to put this as UNBIASED as possible.
Visual impressions:
I just put on the alien head and first impressions visually were not as I quite suspected. From the pics I've seen, I thought the pipe would have nicer welds, and on the inside of the pipes, there are knobs from where the spring tabs melted through. It is a minimal obstruction, but every spring tab has a little knob from when it was welded on (two little metal dots on the inside of the pipe). I would suspect that the other welds are the same but I couldn't see or feel any of the other welds. I know the Brock's system is very light and with such thin metal, perhaps the welds burn through and there is nothing they can do about it...
It was a little more of a hassle to put together when compared to my Tsukigi and Muzzy simply because the headers have springs and don't directly connect to the exhaust ports (plus having to put permatex ultra copper sealant on the head pipes for sealing). Oh well, that part was a minimal bother, and because I've done so many zx14 exhausts now, I'm pretty fast at it now...
Riding the bike:
Now for the real news. I just took the bike for a test ride, and the Brock's ABSOLUTELY makes more horsepower then the Muzzy m10 (this is the first generation muzzy m10). I think I'm going to put my 16t front sprocket and speedo healer up for sale now.... I can't keep the bike down in 2nd gear now, it climbs up no matter WHAT I'm doing! The Muzzy m10 DID NOT do that and I had to pull on the bars when intentionally doing wheelies. My first impression on the bike says that the Brocks makes a little less torque down low then the Muzzy m10 but I'm not 100% sure on that. I was more interested in wringing my bike out. Time will tell, but I did a couple 6th gear rolls and like I said, my first impression was the bike felt a little soggy in comparison to the Muzzy m10.
Mapping:
It was pretty cool to get all the maps from Brock's once I could prove that I got the exhaust from a previous owner who bought the exhaust from a legitimate dealer. Interestingly enough, when I was comparing maps, the Brock's street map no secondaries and the Muzzy's m10 no secondaries map was almost IDENTICAL. There are only 13 different cells out of 405. My opinion is that one company stole the original map, and since the map runs a lot better on the Brock's system, I'm guessing that Muzzy "borrowed" Brock's map.
Conclusion:
Both pipes (Muzzy m10 and Brock's Alien Head) sound equally cool. I believe the Brock's is a touch louder, but that is like saying c4 is louder then dynomite!
They are both loud and sound GREAT! While this is just preference, I believe the alien head is a cooler looking exhaust.
The Brock's is built better then the m10, and it also fits much better. The m10 stuck down really far and even below the oil drain guard. The Brock's is flush and sits higher then the oil drain bolt. From what I've seen of the m14, both pipes are nice and flush, but the m14 has nicer tig welds. I guess you should go for the brock's if you want the absolutely lightest pipe, but I would rather have a little thicker header pipes and nicer tig welds of the m14.
The higher power of the Alien Head is immediately noticeable. I didn't think I'd be able to tell just riding the bike, but all it wants to do now is wheelie.
The maps from Brock's are much better then the maps from Muzzy's.
MORE TO COME.....
Now I have to schedule some dyno, street, and strip time with Sticks so we can see which is better between the Muzzy m14 and the Brock's Alien Head.
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Superman T
Pro
Posts: 1831
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posted April 22, 2009 10:01 PM
gilberjj- Great write up! I'm sure these view points are shared but most of us knew the base of your findings before your post but this gives future inquiries more info to review. I bet you had a blast testing though!!!! 
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted April 23, 2009 12:39 AM
quote:
I bet you had a blast testing though!!!!
literally!!!!!!!!!
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted April 23, 2009 05:55 AM
So you got a 16 tooth and speedo healer up for sale now? At my weight I'll take them off your hands! How much?
Havent had time to check the local board for dyno shootouts to run both bikes head to head (not quite the same as on the same bike, but for a quick check it'll work). Want to browse PNW for it Gilberjj?
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted April 24, 2009 12:19 AM
Can't find any dyno day stuff.... I think I'm selling my speedo healer to Darin. He said he wanted it and it would save me from shipping.
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted April 28, 2009 09:52 PM
FOUND A $10 DYNO DAY!!!!!! Ducati Seattle!!!!! I went there last year and they give printouts! We won't be able to switch exhausts, but it will still be interesting to see sticks bike vs mine on the same day. Sticks, we need to have the same oil in our bikes, and I JUST changed my oil. Do you feel like putting rotella t synthetic 5w40 in your bike?
http://pnwriders.com/general-discussion/102489-may-dyno-madness-ducati-seattle.html#post1663382
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted April 28, 2009 09:53 PM
might demo an 1198 while I'm there too!
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted April 30, 2009 05:15 AM
I'm in - but no way on the oil. Why would I want to backtrack? Will be nice to put the 1198 dyno numbers into there place though. Those Duc guys seem to think that thing is the be all end all of street power. Won't be on much today, but shoot me a email anyways: tlperman@comcast.net
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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kawboy81
Expert Class
Busa Eater
Posts: 273
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posted April 30, 2009 11:19 AM
i dont think no dyno test can prove anything, everyone knows every dyno is different,....i can agree the stock muzzy map is crap, i noticed a BIG difference, getting mine custom mapped vs. the muzzy map they sent. Im making power similiar to the dyno sheet above if i had a scanner id post the printout, i will say this it was WAAAAY hotter than 73, try 102 with humidity @ 80%, thats tennessee for ya..... NOthing wrong with brocks services pipes etc, im sure his mass following is proof of that........BUT theres nothing wrong with muzzy either, ive never had a customer service issue, never had a reason. buy it one time and your done.
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07 LE bolt on bike
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted April 30, 2009 11:49 AM
quote:
i dont think no dyno test can prove anything, everyone knows every dyno is different,....i can agree the stock muzzy map is crap, i noticed a BIG difference, getting mine custom mapped vs. the muzzy map they sent. Im making power similiar to the dyno sheet above if i had a scanner id post the printout, i will say this it was WAAAAY hotter than 73, try 102 with humidity @ 80%, thats tennessee for ya..... NOthing wrong with brocks services pipes etc, im sure his mass following is proof of that........BUT theres nothing wrong with muzzy either, ive never had a customer service issue, never had a reason. buy it one time and your done.
How could it not prove anything???? Same day dyno is about as good as your can get.
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