Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted April 08, 2009 12:55 PM
Smokin, get off your high horse will ya? Just because Mickey Thompson's are on all the Top Fuelers/Funny Cars doesnt mean they are the best tire for street/strip cars, does it???? Personally I think its got more to do with customer support and the fact that Brock's is way more involved in drag strip racing.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
  
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06redzx14
Pro
Posts: 1022
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posted April 08, 2009 01:16 PM
actually teasley rides the super sport 14 with a M14 oval can he lost to rickey in the semis on a hole shot
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted April 08, 2009 01:19 PM
quote:
I think we should keep in mind that the Alien Head
is roughly 5 lbs. lighter than the M14 
Even if the numbers are dead even that is still HUGE
advantage for Brock's IMHO
that is HUGE, why is the Muzzy heavier like that? You comparing ti to ti?
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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06redzx14
Pro
Posts: 1022
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posted April 08, 2009 01:20 PM
I'm switching from the M10 to an alien head because kawjockey and I weigh about the same when he doesn't have a good 60 1.54 he does 9.4xs @ 146+ I do a 1.56 with my M10 and it nets a 9.5x @ 141-142. short answer if you have the old style muzzy drop it
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted April 08, 2009 01:24 PM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 8 Apr 2009 21:26
From my build thread, why I made a switch:
quote:
Today I weighed some exhaust system components. I'm not sure that I will find a tremendously lighter exhaust than the Muzzy M14. Maybe TiForce?
Header 7 lbs. 8 oz.
Mid Pipe 1 lb. 8 oz.
Stainless Muffler 5lb. 2 oz.
Area P Muffler 3 lb. 13.4 oz.
With Area P Carbon Muffler, this whole system weighs about 13 lbs.
------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
My new Brock's Performance exhaust arrived today:
Everything was packaged very well. The exhaust system consists of several pipe sections, retention springs, and the muffler:
Also included with the exhaust was a spring puller to help with assembly, which is a nice touch. If you've ever tried installing springs without a tool, you know how tough it can be without one.
A few minutes and I had everything test-fitted:
As you can see, I went with the Shortmeg. It has a removable baffle, unlike the Alien Head:
I know this pipe will make excellent power. The big question for me was weight. I already knew what to expect after talking with Brock. When I told him how concerned with weight I was, he went so far as to pull a system and double check it for me. My measurements came out exactly the same as his. Just under 9 lbs, without the retention springs installed.
Here is how the weight breaks down, by my scale:
Assembled Header 5 lb. 15 oz.
Midpipe 5 oz.
Muffler with baffle 2 lb. 11 oz.
Springs 5 oz.
So, about 9 lbs. 4 oz complete with baffle. I plan to remove the baffle later, for even more weight savings (racing only). It will probably be easier to do that once the pipe is on the bike. In addition to the weight lost by going with the Brock's system, I am able to do away with the exhaust hanger/peg bracket. In my case, I have a TWW hanger which is about .5 lb. The stock hanger with peg is over one pound.
The Brock exhaust is approximately 5 lbs. lighter than the Muzzy system I was using. Add another .5 loss, due to the removal of the hanger.
Hope this clears up the weight issue.
Shane
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Bawls
Needs a job
re-learning to ride
Posts: 2701
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posted April 08, 2009 01:31 PM
quote:
quote:
I think we should keep in mind that the Alien Head
is roughly 5 lbs. lighter than the M14
Even if the numbers are dead even that is still HUGE
advantage for Brock's IMHO
that is HUGE, why is the Muzzy heavier like that? You comparing ti to ti?
The muzzy exhaust is a much thicker stainless than the BDE is. Shanes comparo was a full stainless brocks vs a stainless/ carbon fiber muzzys.
____________
Best 60ft: 1.42
Best 1/8th: 5.97
Best 1/8th MPH: 119
Brockland Police Badge # 001
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted April 08, 2009 01:38 PM
quote:
Smokin, get off your high horse will ya? Just because Mickey Thompson's are on all the Top Fuelers/Funny Cars doesnt mean they are the best tire for street/strip cars, does it???? Personally I think its got more to do with customer support and the fact that Brock's is way more involved in drag strip racing.
High horse !! High horse !! High horse !!! Oh damn i forgot what i was going to say ..I know it was important , i think ... 
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted April 08, 2009 01:46 PM
every horse i have ever seen smokin on is low lmfao. as for the guy who started this thread, if you read info about brock's pipes he tunes the maps for the best track performance not dyno numbers. he even will mail you a dyno map for good dyno numbers but your bike would not be optimized for the kick ass kawasaki ram air. who wants a dyno queen anyway? i want real world performance. as a side note i changed plugs at over ten thousand miles after running different brocks maps(mostly the track map) and the plugs looked perfect.
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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pazx14rider
Zone Head
Posts: 953
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posted April 08, 2009 05:20 PM
Shane when you put that on shim the muffler out with about 3 washers so you can get the allen head in between the pipe and swingarm to remove the bolt holding the baffle. I ran into this and shimmed it out then cut down an allenwrench to gain access. Thats with my rear links fully lowered if they are raised there are no problems.
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted April 08, 2009 08:01 PM
Well it's definetly a hot topic. Some of you are getting heated. Why not just find out which really makes more power on the dyno? I'll def run the piss out of mine at the track but I'm not a pro rider so it doesn't really matter.
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ninjaboy311
Zone Head
Posts: 940
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posted April 08, 2009 08:19 PM
I got an idea, yall rent my local track for a day, I'll put up my 14 for the test, which already has the Muzzy M14 sidewinder, and yall bring whatever exhausts yall want to test, and yall swap the exhausts as needed and I'll make the passes as needed.
Deal? Gonna have to collect a couple thousand to rent the track though.
Gotta be tested same day/same fuel/same rider to make it count.
____________
Naarden Speedlinks Sponsored Rider
Schnitz Racing Sponsored Rider
8.74 @ 152 on stock motor and MR9 (Muzzy Powered), 205 lbs suited
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zx-twitch
Expert Class
the dude abides
Posts: 247
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posted April 08, 2009 09:01 PM
even if the remotely close in power and weight and the muzzy's is cheaper I'd still go with Brock. for one reason customer support! call muzzys and count how many miniutes you spend on hold, or being put on hold. and they always treat you like you a idiot. then call Brocks, or better yet call Brocks after hours and ask for brock to call you back. I bet he does it. It has happened to me. He is always super busy but always makes the time to eaither call you personally or email you directly. Thats customer support and I'd bet its the best in the business. How many other company owners will do that for you?
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Bluebyyou
Expert Class
Gettin My Curve On
Posts: 276
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posted April 09, 2009 03:06 AM
Edited By: Bluebyyou on 9 Apr 2009 11:08
Muzzy M10 rulez
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2007 Bad to the Bone ZX-14 flies out, full Muzzy exhaust system, PC III, BMC race
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted April 09, 2009 05:18 AM
Twitch: I've called Muzzy customer support twice and never got put on hold. The second time, they put me in touch with Rob Muzzy's brother Curt, and still got his personal cell phone number in my speed dial.
FYI Muzzy WILL NOT give out a dyno map, PERIOD, because they dont make dyno queens and will not be equated with 'fixing' a dyno shootout by supplying a map that leans a bike out to 12.7 to 1 to make max power on a dyno - but could toast your engine if you ran it at speed with the lean map and ram air in effect. I went round and round with Curt about there practice of only giving out ONE map for the M10 setup on the 14 (flies out, race filter, M10 header and M10 megaphone or canister muffler). He stuck to his guns that there map is designed for streetability and overall power, that if you are running 1/4 mile at a time or piling on miles at speed on a circuit track you should get a custom map burned, preferably using a onboard wideband sensor.
The only thing hurting Muzzy's personalized customer service is Brock's simply amazing customer service! I don't know how that guy can dedicate so much of his life to his company... definitely building a legacy there.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted April 09, 2009 05:30 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 9 Apr 2009 13:31
With these two pipes you get what you pay for when it comes to build quality and customer service.
The Muzzy pipe is decently made, but not as well crafted as the Brock's. The Muzzy is also a heavy exhaust, which is the primary reason I sold mine.
Muzzy's map support is nothing like Brock's at all. Meaning, it is not as good as Brock's.
I'd still call the Muzzy a bargain for what it cost's, though. There are a lot of factors besides power to consider when choosing an exhaust.
Shane
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted April 09, 2009 05:59 AM
quote:
Shane when you put that on shim the muffler out with about 3 washers so you can get the allen head in between the pipe and swingarm to remove the bolt holding the baffle. I ran into this and shimmed it out then cut down an allenwrench to gain access. Thats with my rear links fully lowered if they are raised there are no problems.
Minor threadjack, but how do you get the baffle out easily? Mine is pretty solid! Email me:
Shane at warp12racing dot com...
Thanks!
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted April 09, 2009 06:21 AM
quote:
Twitch: I've called Muzzy customer support twice and never got put on hold. The second time, they put me in touch with Rob Muzzy's brother Curt, and still got his personal cell phone number in my speed dial.
FYI Muzzy WILL NOT give out a dyno map, PERIOD, because they dont make dyno queens and will not be equated with 'fixing' a dyno shootout by supplying a map that leans a bike out to 12.7 to 1 to make max power on a dyno - but could toast your engine if you ran it at speed with the lean map and ram air in effect. I went round and round with Curt about there practice of only giving out ONE map for the M10 setup on the 14 (flies out, race filter, M10 header and M10 megaphone or canister muffler). He stuck to his guns that there map is designed for streetability and overall power, that if you are running 1/4 mile at a time or piling on miles at speed on a circuit track you should get a custom map burned, preferably using a onboard wideband sensor.
The only thing hurting Muzzy's personalized customer service is Brock's simply amazing customer service! I don't know how that guy can dedicate so much of his life to his company... definitely building a legacy there.
12.7/1 is lean?
wee
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Bawls
Needs a job
re-learning to ride
Posts: 2701
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posted April 09, 2009 06:42 AM
quote:
Minor threadjack, but how do you get the baffle out easily? Mine is pretty solid! Email me:
Shane at warp12racing dot com...
Thanks!
pull the bolt out of the end cap, grab the ring around the opening with a pair of pliers, channel locks, vice grips etc... and give it a tug. It should come out fairly easy
____________
Best 60ft: 1.42
Best 1/8th: 5.97
Best 1/8th MPH: 119
Brockland Police Badge # 001
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Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted April 09, 2009 06:59 AM
First there was the Muzzy M10 and Brock's pipe, now there is the M14 which looks a lot like a copy of the tappered headered Brock pipe design, hummm, I could be wrong.
____________
2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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Bawls
Needs a job
re-learning to ride
Posts: 2701
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posted April 09, 2009 07:12 AM
Like I said before... Muzzys has the best technology that brock can supply lol.
____________
Best 60ft: 1.42
Best 1/8th: 5.97
Best 1/8th MPH: 119
Brockland Police Badge # 001
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted April 09, 2009 07:17 AM
quote:
quote:
... 'fixing' a dyno shootout by supplying a map that leans a bike out to 12.7 to 1 to make max power on a dyno - but could toast your engine if you ran it at speed with the lean map and ram air in effect.
12.7/1 is lean?
wee
On the dyno, the ram air is useless - unless you had ONE HELLUVA cooling fan that could similate that airflow at 100+mph. Therefore the real world maps add fuel at higher speeds to compensate. On a dyno, the 14 (and newer zx10's) are hurt because of that overenrichment. The same problem you would have with a Turbo bike if your fueling was set for 9psi and you were running it at 6psi boost.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted April 09, 2009 07:22 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
... 'fixing' a dyno shootout by supplying a map that leans a bike out to 12.7 to 1 to make max power on a dyno - but could toast your engine if you ran it at speed with the lean map and ram air in effect.
12.7/1 is lean?
wee
On the dyno, the ram air is useless - unless you had ONE HELLUVA cooling fan that could similate that airflow at 100+mph. Therefore the real world maps add fuel at higher speeds to compensate. On a dyno, the 14 (and newer zx10's) are hurt because of that overenrichment. The same problem you would have with a Turbo bike if your fueling was set for 9psi and you were running it at 6psi boost.
what is a Brock map, 12.7-1?
wee
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted April 09, 2009 07:36 AM
Edited By: Sticks_n_Stones on 9 Apr 2009 15:37
Brocks dyno-only map I would assume is 12.7 to 1 with standard atmospheric conditions at the air intake. A regular real world map being used on a rear wheel dyno seems to run more towards 11 to 1 A/F ratio in 6th gear. Since you run the bike in 6th gear on a dyno, it "thinks" you are hauling ass so it enriches the mixture. Come on Wheelie, why you screwing with me? This is all shit I know you know!
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted April 09, 2009 07:38 AM
If it runs 12.7:1 on the dyno, you aren't going to lean it out enough to hurt it. It's more like a fresh air intake...not a turbo. You won't even see 1 psi of pressurization at top speed. Muzzy just doesn't put the R&D and track time into their pipe/map combinations. It's pretty simple.
Shane
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Some Guy
Expert Class
Posts: 144
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posted April 09, 2009 08:07 AM
Edited By: Some Guy on 9 Apr 2009 16:08
Hey Sticks,
I'm still looking forward to meeting with you guys this year sometime. Maybe we can set a weekend date when we know it'll be dry.
There's a lot of technical talk about these pipes, way over my head, I'd be happy to just run 'em side by side and see. It may not be totally accurate, as I am on an '08, but we could compare sound, looks, and everything else. (even your engine oil theory).
All I know, since I got my bike back after the engine rebuild and added Brocks, it's %#@Q# FAST!!!
____________
'08 SE ZX-14
'14 1000r Ninja (wife's)
1985 900 Ninja
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