posted May 16, 2009 05:25 PM
gilberjj , sticks I hate to pee in your Oatmeal but it still proves nothing .. I'm glad you guys had a great time , i'm sure it was a fun Day ...There is only one way to test whos pipe makes the most power in the real world ..That would to be to get Brock and Muzzy at the track with one Bike and one Pro rider ... Have brock build his best map and run his pipe till he said i'm done and can get no more out of the bike ... Have Muzzy do the same after Brock gets done ... Fastest ET wins ... My guess the numbers will be so close that there will be no clear winner ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
posted May 16, 2009 05:31 PM
Almost sea level. Seattle might be 100ft above sea level in parts, but I doubt it. Numbers were SAE. Dynojet was 182 for sticks, I didn't catch my dynojet numbers
quote:gilberjj , sticks I hate to pee in your Oatmeal but it still proves nothing .. I'm glad you guys had a great time , i'm sure it was a fun Day ...There is only one way to test whos pipe makes the most power in the real world ..That would to be to get Brock and Muzzy at the track with one Bike and one Pro rider ... Have brock build his best map and run his pipe till he said i'm done and can get no more out of the bike ... Have Muzzy do the same after Brock gets done ... Fastest ET wins ... My guess the numbers will be so close that there will be no clear winner ..
Which will never happen, because neither brock nor muzzy want to risk their pipes success on the ability of another. This is a valid test, NO NOT THE END ALL TEST, but valid none-the-less.
posted May 16, 2009 08:02 PM
Edited By: Some Guy on 17 May 2009 04:28
Okay, I was the third guy at the Dyno shootout. Hey Sticks and gilberjj, nice to finally meet you guys. Sorry I wasn't too bubbly today, I had a lot on my mind and it was a bad hair day...
About the results: My best was 160.7 HP and 98.5 torque. BUT, all results should be considered as misconstrued. I'm sure Sticks would have mentioned this when he hitt the forum. As mentioned previously, I wasn't there to win or prove anything, this was the bike's first Dyno ever and I just wanted a benchmark. So I'm not popping out any attitudes here.
The big problem with the Dyno today was that their Dyno tester did NOT provide any RAM Air at all. (I'll post some pics later).
Now I'm probably the least bit mechanically inclined on motorcycles in this forum, but it's obvious to me that the bike, (and the maps), are designed to expect a certain amount of air from the RAM Air. Therefore, if you push zero air into the duct, you're not making the power you could.
I don't remember exactly, and certainly do not intend to offend either gilberjj or Sticks, but when their best numbers were acheived when they tried to "manually deflect" the air into the duct. When Sticks left the air to the side as in my run, (I was first), his best was 162 or 163, and gilberjj was at best 160.
Sticks, thanks again for letting me take your bike for a quick spin. It verified that I truly do have an issue with the balancers in the engine. After the dyno I went back to the dealer and had them look at the bike again. Turns out, they remembered an uncertainty when re-installing the balancers. They could not verify from Kawasaki the correct tooth, so they had to "make a decision". Though I understand that it was not obvious to them, they should have at least acknowledged it to be wrong at the time they fixed it. All this time I thought the Brocks were making my bike buzzy... Still, to their credit, they worked on it right away and allowed me to pick a date to fix it, rather than put me on the 3-week waiting list. So I'll be out again next week to have it done.
posted May 17, 2009 10:02 PM
Edited By: Sticks_n_Stones on 18 May 2009 06:03
The dyno they used had a setup for ramair to similate the ramair effect, BUT the zx14 is too long and there tubes didnt fit in front of the bike, hence we pointed them together and directed some flow into the intake. Just using our hands to deflect a little bit of air into the intake made 2rwhp. Guy running the dyno said that he has seen 10hp from the ramair on a zx14, but they didnt have the tube adapters. Both mine and Gilberjj did backup runs, with air directing and air nozzles pointed away to get fair numbers for Some Guy.
Scanner is down right now, will be up tomorrow (hate all-in-one printers, ink runs out and they will not even scan). Here is two pics I took of the print out:
Top run was my bike DATA1 (blue), muzzy m14 with SS oval canister, base muzzy map, flies out, K&N filter with 4500 miles since last cleaning, and running Mobil 1 0W-20. Gilberjj's DATA3 (orange) run was using 5W-40 Rotella synthetic, and his DATA1 (black) run was using the same oil I did, the 0W-20. By the time we changed oil, and went out to "mix it up" with 2nd and 3rd and 6th gear pulls on the freeway, then back into line to run the temp had gone from 57deg @11am to 67deg @3pm. The temp inside the dyno room (which is located inside a huge near empty warehouse) had probably risen 5 deg. All runs were run using the supposedly appropriate correction factors. Each run they also listed "Dynojet HP" equivelants, and my 165hp run came out to a 182hp dynojet run, for what thats worth.
Here is the video:
Not pertaining to this post, but I just downloaded it to youtube from last weekend when we and my brother were bored.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
posted May 17, 2009 10:25 PM
Got a kick out of the Desmocedici RR, badass bike! Was worried when ALL the Duc mechanics told me that he was gonna take the dyno shootout easily, because "We did all his mods and tuning and he puts out 185 SAEhp". heh heh nope, all the 14's out pulled him. At least on the dyno... I sat on it, and the damn thing felt like I was sitting on a dirt bike it was so light! wow
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
posted May 18, 2009 05:59 AM
Some Guy I hate to beat a dead horse, but you really need to hammer those guys at that Renton Kawasaki over that engine rebuild. I mean come the hell on, your bike vibrated more than any Harley I've ever seen! The tank vibration was so bad I'm suprised it didnt aerate your fuel and run you lean - and it probably did damage to your bearings. I'm making a thread up to hear from the engine builders on this site about just that issue.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
posted May 18, 2009 02:55 PM
Edited By: Sticks_n_Stones on 18 May 2009 22:57
~bump~ where is all the drama now??
Look guys, I'll be the first to admit that my bike is a "wednesday built" bike. All bikes vary in hp from the factory dependent upon so many variables that I couldnt even list them, hence every bike varies in output. Very obviously mine is a lucky build - and I aint selling it either! Taking that into consideration the dyno runs were still usefull. Here is what we learned:
1. The SMEG of Some Guy made 1/2 more hp than the Alien head, with the gain being above made above 10,000rpms. There dyno curves were close, but odd in that the Alien was down until 7k, then above by a few hp and held that until 9k when the smeg started its climb, passing around 10k. I wish I had that camcorder of the map comparisons but I f*ed up and didnt press the record button hard enough. Hopefully Some Guy or Gilberjj got a pic of it. (I'm referring to the Gilberjj run without air deflection compared to Some Guys run that I had him put up after your first run Gilberjj). I thought the Alien Head was supposed to be the shit???? Is it just a different name and shape made in order to sell more units to those who want the latest and greatest? I would PM Brock to get his input here but PM's are down - can one of you guys contact him? Also Some Guys bike was vibrating horribly and I cant imagine it not losing hp from that balance shaft being out of alignment like it is.
2. The lightweight oil reacted very oddly, but did make more hp. If the dyno run was accurate and the tire wasnt spinning like I think it was, the oil caused a noticeable linear loss of power until the very end and then leap frogged ahead? I just dont buy it, and think it was because the guy put Gilberjj's bike a inch farther back that he had done ours. That inch could have been the difference between slip and no slip, and it was my fault because I was bugging him to locate the bike farther back so that we could deflect more air into Gilberjj's ramair opening. I didnt think it would cause any problems but... what do you guys who have had tires slip on the dyno before think??
Another tidbit: my tire is at about 80% worn out, Gilberjj's is still fairly fresh.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
Look guys, I'll be the first to admit that my bike is a "wednesday built" bike. All bikes vary in hp from the factory dependent upon so many variables that I couldnt even list them, hence every bike varies in output. Very obviously mine is a lucky build - and I aint selling it either! Taking that into consideration the dyno runs were still usefull. Here is what we learned:
1. The SMEG of Some Guy made 1/2 more hp than the Alien head, with the gain being above made above 10,000rpms. There dyno curves were close, but odd in that the Alien was down until 7k, then above by a few hp and held that until 9k when the smeg started its climb, passing around 10k. I wish I had that camcorder of the map comparisons but I f*ed up and didnt press the record button hard enough. Hopefully Some Guy or Gilberjj got a pic of it. (I'm referring to the Gilberjj run without air deflection compared to Some Guys run that I had him put up after your first run Gilberjj). I thought the Alien Head was supposed to be the shit???? Is it just a different name and shape made in order to sell more units to those who want the latest and greatest? I would PM Brock to get his input here but PM's are down - can one of you guys contact him? Also Some Guys bike was vibrating horribly and I cant imagine it not losing hp from that balance shaft being out of alignment like it is.
2. The lightweight oil reacted very oddly, but did make more hp. If the dyno run was accurate and the tire wasnt spinning like I think it was, the oil caused a noticeable linear loss of power until the very end and then leap frogged ahead? I just dont buy it, and think it was because the guy put Gilberjj's bike a inch farther back that he had done ours. That inch could have been the difference between slip and no slip, and it was my fault because I was bugging him to locate the bike farther back so that we could deflect more air into Gilberjj's ramair opening. I didnt think it would cause any problems but... what do you guys who have had tires slip on the dyno before think??
Another tidbit: my tire is at about 80% worn out, Gilberjj's is still fairly fresh.
LOL, I dont think those are the results we wanted to see! it was rigged, smoke and mirrors, operator was paid!!! hehehe
posted May 18, 2009 04:00 PM
I think the dyno was worth the trip. Now we know what the 14 will do with no RAM Air, or very little at best. I also will always enjoy remembering the huge smile on the tester's face after first running mine. I figure if he does this all the time he probably doesn't get impressed that often. He certainly was impressed at my first run. I'm sure the smile was even bigger after he ran Sticks'...
We also saw the 3 'handicapped' zx-14's smoke a Ducati 1098 with no RAM air. The Ducati got all the air needed.
Hey Sticks, I didn't stick around to see what that gixxer put out with those Yoroshima pipes. I take it he was less than the three of us...
BTW, I am going to have RMC dyno mine when it's fixed. So if you're free on Saturday WA riders, we can do it again at a Kawi dealer that I would hope has the proper equipment.
The way you ask I'm scared to reply... but yes. Is that bad? I never dynoed it before the rebuild. It was never 100 % for more than a day or two at a time.
It was rebuilt last year in October. I had it for a week or two before mothballing it for the winter. I'd say I've put 2000 miles on it since having it back. Of those, 600 or so is the round trip from Seattle.
I still ride my old 900 hundred around. Once this 14 becomes a stable ride, I will likely sell the 900.
posted May 18, 2009 08:46 PM
Edited By: LLcooljebb on 19 May 2009 04:52
quote:
Not pertaining to this post, but I just downloaded it to youtube from last weekend when we and my brother were bored.
Sweet! Was that the voice of reason in the background...party pooper! lol
Btw Sticks, does the 3deg advance help your bike's #'s? Don't recall seeing info on it...mabey missed it. I have a muzzy's, contemplating installing it.
____________
"no time to be void or save up on life
you got to spend it all.."
quote:
1. The SMEG of Some Guy made 1/2 more hp than the Alien head, with the gain being above made above 10,000rpms. There dyno curves were close, but odd in that the Alien was down until 7k, then above by a few hp and held that until 9k when the smeg started its climb, passing around 10k. I wish I had that camcorder of the map comparisons but I f*ed up and didnt press the record button hard enough. Hopefully Some Guy or Gilberjj got a pic of it. (I'm referring to the Gilberjj run without air deflection compared to Some Guys run that I had him put up after your first run Gilberjj). I thought the Alien Head was supposed to be the shit???? Is it just a different name and shape made in order to sell more units to those who want the latest and greatest? I would PM Brock to get his input here but PM's are down - can one of you guys contact him? Also Some Guys bike was vibrating horribly and I cant imagine it not losing hp from that balance shaft being out of alignment like it is.
I'm guessing that the 08s make a touch more hp then the 06s, and that is the reason for the 1 hp difference, not the pipes.
Look guys, I'll be the first to admit that my bike is a "wednesday built" bike. All bikes vary in hp from the factory dependent upon so many variables that I couldnt even list them, hence every bike varies in output. Very obviously mine is a lucky build - and I aint selling it either! Taking that into consideration the dyno runs were still usefull. Here is what we learned:
1. The SMEG of Some Guy made 1/2 more hp than the Alien head, with the gain being above made above 10,000rpms. There dyno curves were close, but odd in that the Alien was down until 7k, then above by a few hp and held that until 9k when the smeg started its climb, passing around 10k. I wish I had that camcorder of the map comparisons but I f*ed up and didnt press the record button hard enough. Hopefully Some Guy or Gilberjj got a pic of it. (I'm referring to the Gilberjj run without air deflection compared to Some Guys run that I had him put up after your first run Gilberjj). I thought the Alien Head was supposed to be the shit???? Is it just a different name and shape made in order to sell more units to those who want the latest and greatest? I would PM Brock to get his input here but PM's are down - can one of you guys contact him? Also Some Guys bike was vibrating horribly and I cant imagine it not losing hp from that balance shaft being out of alignment like it is.
2. The lightweight oil reacted very oddly, but did make more hp. If the dyno run was accurate and the tire wasnt spinning like I think it was, the oil caused a noticeable linear loss of power until the very end and then leap frogged ahead? I just dont buy it, and think it was because the guy put Gilberjj's bike a inch farther back that he had done ours. That inch could have been the difference between slip and no slip, and it was my fault because I was bugging him to locate the bike farther back so that we could deflect more air into Gilberjj's ramair opening. I didnt think it would cause any problems but... what do you guys who have had tires slip on the dyno before think??
Another tidbit: my tire is at about 80% worn out, Gilberjj's is still fairly fresh.
LOL, I dont think those are the results we wanted to see! it was rigged, smoke and mirrors, operator was paid!!! hehehe
wee
My used M14 is looking more like a Good deal than I realized. Thanks Shane,
Wee........... where are you going to Drag race now? Motor Plex in Ennis? Several ZX-14
owners are going back to the Ozark Mountains. Leaving Fort Worth Thurs morning
return home on Monday. You are welcome to ride with us. We are taking a truck with a bike trailer....I may trailer back home. Sorry for thread jack.
quote:Hey Sticks, I didn't stick around to see what that gixxer put out with those Yoroshima pipes. I take it he was less than the three of us...
BTW, I am going to have RMC dyno mine when it's fixed. So if you're free on Saturday WA riders, we can do it again at a Kawi dealer that I would hope has the proper equipment.
Gixxer was 151hp, the Desmocedici RR was the highest non-zx14 there with a 154? 155? have to watch the end of the video again... its on there. RMC is going to call me as soon as they get the elbows needed to make the ramair work properly, so I'll put the info out on here as a official post.
quote:I'm guessing that the 08s make a touch more hp then the 06s, and that is the reason for the 1 hp difference, not the pipes.
Oh shit, I forgot about that. The 08 does have a round of small improvements that would/could account for the variance. But then how do you explain my numbers? lol just f*in with yaa.
Once again: My ignition advancer was out of the bike, and I even brought it with to show everyone. Not that it matters, everyone who has tested it says it doesnt give any topend power, just better throttle response and low/mid rpm torque.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
Look guys, I'll be the first to admit that my bike is a "wednesday built" bike. All bikes vary in hp from the factory dependent upon so many variables that I couldnt even list them, hence every bike varies in output. Very obviously mine is a lucky build - and I aint selling it either! Taking that into consideration the dyno runs were still usefull. Here is what we learned:
1. The SMEG of Some Guy made 1/2 more hp than the Alien head, with the gain being above made above 10,000rpms. There dyno curves were close, but odd in that the Alien was down until 7k, then above by a few hp and held that until 9k when the smeg started its climb, passing around 10k. I wish I had that camcorder of the map comparisons but I f*ed up and didnt press the record button hard enough. Hopefully Some Guy or Gilberjj got a pic of it. (I'm referring to the Gilberjj run without air deflection compared to Some Guys run that I had him put up after your first run Gilberjj). I thought the Alien Head was supposed to be the shit???? Is it just a different name and shape made in order to sell more units to those who want the latest and greatest? I would PM Brock to get his input here but PM's are down - can one of you guys contact him? Also Some Guys bike was vibrating horribly and I cant imagine it not losing hp from that balance shaft being out of alignment like it is.
2. The lightweight oil reacted very oddly, but did make more hp. If the dyno run was accurate and the tire wasnt spinning like I think it was, the oil caused a noticeable linear loss of power until the very end and then leap frogged ahead? I just dont buy it, and think it was because the guy put Gilberjj's bike a inch farther back that he had done ours. That inch could have been the difference between slip and no slip, and it was my fault because I was bugging him to locate the bike farther back so that we could deflect more air into Gilberjj's ramair opening. I didnt think it would cause any problems but... what do you guys who have had tires slip on the dyno before think??
Another tidbit: my tire is at about 80% worn out, Gilberjj's is still fairly fresh.
LOL, I dont think those are the results we wanted to see! it was rigged, smoke and mirrors, operator was paid!!! hehehe
wee
My used M14 is looking more like a Good deal than I realized. Thanks Shane,
Wee........... where are you going to Drag race now? Motor Plex in Ennis? Several ZX-14
owners are going back to the Ozark Mountains. Leaving Fort Worth Thurs morning
return home on Monday. You are welcome to ride with us. We are taking a truck with a bike trailer....I may trailer back home. Sorry for thread jack.
Dallas Raceway, bikes have their own lane, im pretty much done with Kennedale, they dont want bikes, they took away lane one which was the bike lane, im not sitting in a pack of cars all day to make a solo pass
The way you ask I'm scared to reply... but yes. Is that bad? I never dynoed it before the rebuild. It was never 100 % for more than a day or two at a time.
It was rebuilt last year in October. I had it for a week or two before mothballing it for the winter. I'd say I've put 2000 miles on it since having it back. Of those, 600 or so is the round trip from Seattle.
I still ride my old 900 hundred around. Once this 14 becomes a stable ride, I will likely sell the 900.
I was just wondering if that might be the reason for making less hp on the dyno.
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posted May 16, 2009 05:23 PM
Edited By: 
