LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted May 11, 2009 10:25 AM
So your Brocks was up 4 HP peak over sticks but on a different dyno, different days and location. Wish sticks would have dynoed his 14 when you just did. What did the Brocks do at 3500 to 6500 RPM??? 4 peak HP on the street is not worth the expense of selling my
$400.00 used M14 for a new Brocks. But I am glad you are happy as That is all that matters.
  
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Sticks_n_Stones
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Posts: 3930
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posted May 11, 2009 10:30 AM
Steve you're a dork. Sorry to break it too you, but sometimes a mans gotta hear it up front. 
Sounds good, this upcoming weekend should be fine for me. I took the advance off, bike was running 'funny' and knocking so I pulled it off. Didn't help, must be a bad tank of gas and just gotta add some 92 octane and run it out this week. Also, I didnt have the advance at last years dyno shootout, just the 0W-20 oil. Something else to think about: I was the only guy at the shootout that warmed his bike up before running. Remember I sat there idling it until I saw 2 bars showing, then shut it off? Figured maybe the computer would run it rich thinking it was cold (like a car computer staying open loop until it warms up, then going closed loop and using the 02 sensor). There could be something to that, or not... it took the guy a solid 3-4 minutes of running the bike and calibrating the dyno before final dyno pulls and that 'should have' been enough to warm each up.
And in case you are wondering if it was a erroneous dyno pull, he actually did 2 full dyno pulls on mine, first one in fifth gear and second in sixth to test my theory that the bike was hitting the speed limiter and cutting off the last thousand rpms. I was right, but the cutoff happened after the hp peak so he said it didnt matter.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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gilberjj
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posted May 11, 2009 10:39 AM
I left before you dynoed last year. What time do you want to go to Ducati Seattle this Saturday?
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Sticks_n_Stones
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Posts: 3930
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posted May 11, 2009 10:43 AM
when are they open? Is it a BBQ from a certain time to a certain time or is it normal operations? I think meeting you there 9-10am. Maybe earlier, but I like my saturday morning sleepins. You coming around or on the ferry?
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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gilberjj
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posted May 11, 2009 10:57 AM
I'M NOT A FAIRY!!!!!!! Oh...... ferry.... got it. I'll be riding up from Tacoma. Let's meet there at 11:00. That will give us plenty of time to get in, and I believe the bbq starts at noon. Make sure to bring your ass, so you can hand it to me once I beat you. haha, j/k, I really don't know which bike will pull the bigger number.
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Sticks_n_Stones
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Posts: 3930
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posted May 11, 2009 12:28 PM
haha fuckin fairy... you want my ass, you're gonna have to earn it by staying within shouting distance of me on one of my favorite backroads! As far as the dyno goes, two questions:
1. You running the Brocks dyno map, maxton map, or street map? Since I dont have that kind of map support with Muzzy guess its legitimate to use whatever Brocks provides, but others would dissagree with you using the dyno only map.
2. You have the 0W or 0W-20 oil in yet? If not, dont do it and we can change it right there in the parking lot, you ride it around the block to circulate it and we will run your bike again. I would really like to see the numbers that Brocks USED TO CLAIM before he edited it off his diaries. I don't remember the exact number he claimed, but I believe it was 5-7hp.
Will need to know about the oil, if you cannot bring the drain pan, oil, and wrench I will do it for you. Just bring a filter if you want to change that with the oil.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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Sticks_n_Stones
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Posts: 3930
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posted May 11, 2009 12:30 PM
Just had to turn down a $900 overtime weekend opportunity to make this dyno shootout. It had better not rain...
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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LAB3
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Posts: 2977
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posted May 11, 2009 01:46 PM
 Edited By: LAB3 on 11 May 2009 21:56
I.m hoping you suprise everyone. But I really want to look at HP and Torque from 3500 to 7000 where on the open road in 6th gear is where I use it with soft bags and loaded down.
Sticks That is a of coin to turn down. $900.00 for 2 days... I am working. :-) Sticks
I have a custom map for a M14 and 4 degree advancer and K&N air filter that was made
at 700 feet above sea level. And I have a copy of Shanes custom data logged map
he made for LSR and Drag Racing. Shane will have to tell us what altitude his map was done at. I also have a Muzzy M14 fly out 4 adv. map. And all three maps were for Fly's Out ona 07 ZX-14.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted May 11, 2009 01:48 PM
quote:
you want my ass, you're gonna have to earn it.
Man, that must be music to everyone's ears...
Where do we sign up?
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gilberjj
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posted May 11, 2009 06:18 PM
So you have the oil for me sticks? I have Rotella T in my bike right now, and it's very fresh oil, that's why I'm hesitant..... Oh well, anything for science right. I'll run my street map btw. I'll post my dyno sheet tonight. I'm very busy, next week is finals, and I'm supposed to be graduating on the 24 (not to mention all my job interviews as well)!
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Sticks_n_Stones
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Posts: 3930
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posted May 12, 2009 05:29 AM
Shane I'm not talking about straight line! Sorry, but no amount of skill in the world can get someone my size and weight down to the speeds guys your size can pull. Unless... how about you race with your girlfriend on the back? Wonder if the track would even allow that?
Gilberjj: Yeah, I got the oil for you. I'll bring a cleaner then new oil pan and you can reuse your old oil afterwards if you want.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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KawaBonzai
Zone Head
Leader of the Back.
Posts: 537
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posted May 12, 2009 12:52 PM
10 pages of .....YAWN !!!!!
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PC-III w/USB, Muzzys M14 + Carbon Oval + M10, BMC Race Filter, Flies Out, Buell Pegs, Heli Risers
www.TucsonSportRiders.com - Tucson's Premier SportRider Community
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masszx14
Pro
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posted May 12, 2009 04:24 PM
quote:
10 pages of .....YAWN !!!!!
And going strong! 
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universal@mind
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gilberjj
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posted May 12, 2009 04:35 PM
Edited By: gilberjj on 13 May 2009 00:35
I promise I'll get my dyno sheet up tonight. There is also a zx14 with a muzzy's exhaust that just dynoed on zx14.net, and I'll pull up that map too for comparison.
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SteveWFL
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted May 12, 2009 05:29 PM
quote:
There is NO MUZZY hat on the premises at OHLINS USA!
reminder.
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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LAB3
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Posts: 2977
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posted May 12, 2009 06:40 PM
quote:
I promise I'll get my dyno sheet up tonight. There is also a zx14 with a muzzy's exhaust that just dynoed on zx14.net, and I'll pull up that map too for comparison.
Different dyno different locations and days tested different bikes. Post what your 14
did with the Muzzy when you beat ninjaofdoom too.
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gilberjj
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posted May 12, 2009 10:51 PM
Kinda cool, Ducati Seattle posted my sheet up on another forum because I was the days winner (by about 14 hp). I have the dynojet run and I made 175 whp. Take in mind, this is with NO air directed at the intake. I mean NONE. Their fans couldn't reach my intake, so they were pointed under the fairing at my radiator.
Notice the a/f line. This is Brock's street map. 13:1 all the way across. The tuners were VERY impressed with how good the map is.
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted May 13, 2009 05:21 AM
with no ram air and no airflow at the intake, running 13 to 1 A/F I smell something funny here. Thats the kinda numbers put up by a dyno only map, the street map should be showing 11.5 to 1 or so A/F ratio with no ramair in effect. Little dyno help here fellas that have a dyno sheet'd run to refer to. Or I guess I can just wait until this saturday.
F*** that, Gilberjj give me a call
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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Shane661
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posted May 13, 2009 05:29 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 13 May 2009 13:32
First off, the ram air on the 14 doesn't do too much. Secondly, no way is it going to run 11.5:1 without ram air (properly mapped)...that is way too fat. It's not a turbo, it's just fresh air intake.
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Some Guy
Expert Class
Posts: 144
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posted May 13, 2009 06:13 AM
Hey Sticks, gilberjj, I'll meet with you guys on Saturday. I plan to leave Spokane Friday afternoon and spend the night at my son's place. I plan on getting to Ducati Seattle super early because I don't want to make the trip and miss out. I'll leave for home that afternoon too.
I'm not doing anything special to the bike. This will be the first time it's been dynoed and I want to set a benchmark for it, though it would have been nice to install a K&N before and after.
BTW, last Saturday I finally had an opportunity to roll it on a few times with a ZX-10 w/Brothers can and a Honda 1000 something, (don't remember the model but it wasn't a CBR). My 14 absolutely toasted them. Felt realllllllllll good!
Hope to see you there!
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'08 SE ZX-14
'14 1000r Ninja (wife's)
1985 900 Ninja
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted May 13, 2009 06:18 AM
Cool, see you there at 11am Some Guy.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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smokinZX14
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posted May 13, 2009 08:24 AM
Street map is set at 13.1 .... Race map is 12.9 .. And yes the ram air works and works well , if you don't think it does pull your ram air tubes off at the frame and make a few passes .. Like Shane said 11.5 is for turbos or a but load of dry N20 ...No way would the ram air make up for a bad A/F ratio of 11.5 ..
The ram air is one reason a zx14 dynos less than a 08 Busa but run the same numbers down the strip ... The Busa ram air doesn't work well at all , one look at the placement of the ducts on a busa well tell you that ...Now look at the zx14 intake , fighter jet intake ,same type as F1 cars ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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slates
Expert Class
Posts: 377
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posted May 13, 2009 08:49 AM
quote:
Street map is set at 13.1 .... Race map is 12.9 .. And yes the ram air works and works well , if you don't think it does pull your ram air tubes off at the frame and make a few passes .. Like Shane said 11.5 is for turbos or a but load of dry N20 ...No way would the ram air make up for a bad A/F ratio of 11.5 ..
The ram air is one reason a zx14 dynos less than a 08 Busa but run the same numbers down the strip ... The Busa ram air doesn't work well at all , one look at the placement of the ducts on a busa well tell you that ...Now look at the zx14 intake , fighter jet intake ,same type as F1 cars ..
Smokin...always adding some knowledge, sanity and common sense to the mix.
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black zx14 - Brock's Gen3 Carbon, PCIII, no secondaries, Carrozzeria wheels, Sato rearsets, Pazzo levers, GPR V4 steering damper, Puig windscreen, Tiger Racing chain guard
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Sticks_n_Stones
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posted May 13, 2009 09:01 AM
Thanks Smokin, I never doubted that the ramair worked just didnt know if or how much extra fuel the computer added. Apparently not much needed. So if I get a custom map done I should make sure they dont go below 12.9 to 1?
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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Shane661
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Posts: 11494
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posted May 13, 2009 09:23 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 13 May 2009 17:36
The ram air doesn't work very well at high speeds. Yes, It will keep the intake near atmospheric...but it will not build much pressure at high speeds. Looking at the inlet location, and the runner design will tell you that. The inlet on the 14 is a NACA type duct. These ducts are designed to minimize airflow disturbance, not to build maximum pressure:
http://www.search.com/reference/NACA_duct
There is your common sense, Sticks. 
It is obvious that the design does not build much pressure over atmospheric when you look at data logged from the pressure sensor in the box. It will build to it's maximum pressure quickly, but not improve much as the speeds increase. While the Busa design may suck, that doesn't make the 14's setup great.
For the purpose of the Dragstrip it will work pretty good. For those of us looking to get the most top speed out of the bike, it leaves a whole lot to be desired.
Shane
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