NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted March 13, 2010 06:31 AM
John
Sounds like you are pretty happy with the PCV and autotune?
Are you having any problems tuning the turbo and 3 bar sensor?
Would you recommend this setup?
I'm waiting on the ECU programmer but riding season is almost here and
no news .
  
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JDC
Zone Head
Posts: 570
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posted March 13, 2010 08:12 AM
quote:
could be the E85 that is the extra cooling that you are seeing. turbos just add heat
X3
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JDC
Zone Head
Posts: 570
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posted March 13, 2010 08:17 AM
 Edited By: JDC on 13 Mar 2010 16:25
quote:
oh and another thing the bike is thirsty on E85 im getting about 10MPG right now but these have all been tuning pulls and mostly WOT and what not im hoping crusing speeds no boost or anything ill be in the high 20s ill report back in the next few weeks
Smokes,
After tuning the map to 12.5 across the board for turbo my mileage from non-turbo MPG high 30's very low 40's, to turbo'd mid-high 20's, and the low fuel warning would usually flash by 85 miles. It was a drag.
Changed the cruise range 3-4K to 14.2, and mileage is back up to high 30's- sometimes just touching 40.
It takes a lot of will-power to leave the throttle alone and cruise with this bike, and even more with a blower. It is a real big itch.
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JDC
Zone Head
Posts: 570
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posted March 13, 2010 08:19 AM
quote:
quote:
Pistons were melted on the dyno during the initial tune. Stock compression, 91 octane. There were fueling issues compounding things from what I'm told. PCIII running 80+ duty cycle at 60 psi, fuel regulator was dialed up and negligible increase in fuel pressure.
Most of the lower boost 14 turbo's I've heard of having motor probs seem to have mostly been blown up on a dyno,
Yup. What I hear is that some of those bikse blow on the first pull or two... my guess is that they maps were not really over richened first, for safety, before the pulls.
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JDC
Zone Head
Posts: 570
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posted March 13, 2010 08:22 AM
Edited By: JDC on 13 Mar 2010 16:26
quote:
with my set-up on the street
hey, 1badzx12r, what is your setup?
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01smokes
Needs a job
Posts: 2243
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posted March 13, 2010 09:55 AM
How the hell are people so dumb to have there bikes pop on the dyno in the 1st pull or 2 right now i have right at 160 VERY HARD miles on the turbo 14 with out putting it on a dyno i have the lc1 wideband on it and i watch air fuels like a hawk, i have never tuned a bike before on motor or nitrous or anything but i have been tuning my turbo bike and its not hard at all just keep it rich and work your way to your target air fuels
The one thing i would do if i were you guys is say FUCK FMUs everyone i have ever talked to says they are junk, spend the extra money get some injectors with a 1:1 regulator.
A fuel system the fuel is the heart of a turbo bike, right now i have about 1200 bucks in to my fuel system, so i say the most important thing on a turbo bike is a wideband and a fuel system thats big enough to handle big power
____________
PayPal, vigilart22@yahoo.com
Email, artvgl@yahoo.com
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted March 13, 2010 12:59 PM
quote:
How the hell are people so dumb to have there bikes pop on the dyno in the 1st pull or 2 right now i have right at 160 VERY HARD miles on the turbo 14 with out putting it on a dyno i have the lc1 wideband on it and i watch air fuels like a hawk, i have never tuned a bike before on motor or nitrous or anything but i have been tuning my turbo bike and its not hard at all just keep it rich and work your way to your target air fuels
The one thing i would do if i were you guys is say FUCK FMUs everyone i have ever talked to says they are junk, spend the extra money get some injectors with a 1:1 regulator.
A fuel system the fuel is the heart of a turbo bike, right now i have about 1200 bucks in to my fuel system, so i say the most important thing on a turbo bike is a wideband and a fuel system thats big enough to handle big power
I agree completely. The mechanics are doing it on the dyno though, not the owner.
A turbo is not a pipe. Not in the same league.
If your not able or prepared to tune- alot of tuning , tinker and repair, then stick to a stock bike.
Its not a bolt on, forget about it and ride affair.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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johnbull
Expert Class
Posts: 314
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posted March 16, 2010 01:20 AM
quote:
John
Sounds like you are pretty happy with the PCV and autotune?
Are you having any problems tuning the turbo and 3 bar sensor?
Would you recommend this setup?
I'm waiting on the ECU programmer but riding season is almost here and
no news .
At the moment I am happy with the PCV and MSD SB6 which adjusts ignition though to be honest if I had known the ins and outs and pro's & con's of these piggy backs before I bought them, I would have definately gone for a standalone ECU straight away because by the time you buy the PCV, autotune, SB6, innovate data logger to monitor AFR etc. with the same money you can buy a fully programmable standalone ECU which datalogs, autotunes etc.
In my case I can see that sooner or later that is the route I am going to have to take but then again mine is strictly for race applications only.
Re. map sensor, I have left the standard map sensor in place connected normally but I am using an external 2bar map sensor to send a 0-5V signal to the PCV in order to make adjustments to the map according to boost pressure. It is also sending a 0-5V signal to the MSD SB6 in order to retard ignition according to boost.
You have to choose which setup you want to use with the PCV, whether it is autotune or 0-5V signal according to boost. You CANNOT use them together! It is either one or the other.
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John Bul Racing. Malta.
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted March 16, 2010 07:29 AM
what does the SB6 do that the pc ignition module not do?
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johnbull
Expert Class
Posts: 314
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posted March 16, 2010 08:56 AM
Dynojet have not yet released an ignition module for the PCV thats why we had to go for the SB6. The good thing we found with the SB6 is that you can control the ignition curve from the 0-5V signal coming from the map sensor i.e. you can retard according to boost pressure. The SB6 also has a rev-launch limiter which you can plot however you want.
What it doesnt have that I think the PC ignition module has is that you cant map the ignition with TPS vs RPM.
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John Bul Racing. Malta.
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted March 16, 2010 04:03 PM
SB6 -Yes , you can map ignition wioth TPS vs RPM, but not with boost too...
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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wndsrfr
Novice Class
Posts: 54
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posted April 10, 2010 04:21 PM
question how much are you retarding per pound of boost?
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted September 30, 2010 02:31 PM
So what did we learn? From all of this, I may never worry about trying to boost to 10psi... I'm thinking
Stock motor
Stock injectors
fmu tuned to 80ish psi at full boost
6 psi
pump gas (but tuned first on race gas)
external 38mm tial wastegate
pull 5 psi via ignition module
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted September 30, 2010 02:52 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 30 Sep 2010 22:58
quote:
So what did we learn? From all of this, I may never worry about trying to boost to 10psi... I'm thinking
Stock motor
Stock injectors
fmu tuned to 80ish psi at full boost
6 psi
pump gas (but tuned first on race gas)
external 38mm tial wastegate
pull 5 psi via ignition module
IMHO you have a pig with all that safety .. but better safe than sorry and back into it ..
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 30, 2010 03:17 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 1 Oct 2010 00:36
Secret tuning advice...18 psi, 87 pump, +5 degrees....
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted September 30, 2010 03:24 PM
quote:
Secret tuning advice...8 psi, 87 pump, +5 degrees....
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted September 30, 2010 04:09 PM
-87 pump . C16 at the track@ 10lbs +
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 30, 2010 04:36 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 1 Oct 2010 00:37
All kidding aside, that is a safe setup you are talking about Gilberr...but will kill a lot of power....and you don't have that much on 6 psi to begin with.
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johnbull
Expert Class
Posts: 314
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posted October 01, 2010 12:00 AM
The last time we had the supercharged car out on the circuit it ran excellently all weekend without any engine problems at all. This was a 20 minute practice session sat morning, a 30 min qualifying session sat afternoon then 8 min race sun morning and a 12 min race sun afternoon. Will post a video up here soon.
This was running 8 psi of boost on stock ignition map and YES 1BAD with MTC tall deck pistons and Falicon shorter rods and after all that constant beating the pistons are still perfectly round!!! So something tells me you must have had something wrong with your setup. We recently fitted an intercooler to the setup and it seems to be going really well now.
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John Bul Racing. Malta.
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted October 01, 2010 04:08 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 1 Oct 2010 12:22
quote:
This was running 8 psi of boost on stock ignition map and YES 1BAD with MTC tall deck pistons and Falicon shorter rods and after all that constant beating the pistons are still perfectly round!!! So something tells me you must have had something wrong with your setup. We recently fitted an intercooler to the setup and it seems to be going really well now.
good for you . but i still say they are junk or maybe they redesign their fuck-up BECAUSE you didn't need shorter rods with the pistons i purchased from them . . but i'll never purchase nothing MTC .
MY STOCK PISTONS HAVE MADE 500 PASSES SINCE THE MTC FUKK=UP WITH UP TO 14LBS OF BOOST . on stock timing and stock rods with C16 and its still running strong . i'm set at 10lbs ,
when i need to rebuild i'm going with the Connie C14 pistons . HARD to beat them stock parts .
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted November 17, 2010 06:58 PM
quote:
quote:
This was running 8 psi of boost on stock ignition map and YES 1BAD with MTC tall deck pistons and Falicon shorter rods and after all that constant beating the pistons are still perfectly round!!! So something tells me you must have had something wrong with your setup. We recently fitted an intercooler to the setup and it seems to be going really well now.
good for you . but i still say they are junk or maybe they redesign their fuck-up BECAUSE you didn't need shorter rods with the pistons i purchased from them . . but i'll never purchase nothing MTC .
MY STOCK PISTONS HAVE MADE 500 PASSES SINCE THE MTC FUKK=UP WITH UP TO 14LBS OF BOOST . on stock timing and stock rods with C16 and its still running strong . i'm set at 10lbs ,
when i need to rebuild i'm going with the Connie C14 pistons . HARD to beat them stock parts .
1bad, what are you using for a fuel system?
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted November 17, 2010 09:43 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 18 Nov 2010 05:44
stock injectors with a fmu and a high output intank pump .
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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johnbull
Expert Class
Posts: 314
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posted November 18, 2010 09:00 AM
You want reliability???? Use a 1:1 rising rate regulator and change your injectors to bigger ones.
Trying to fool the problem of stock injectors being to small by shoving more fuel pressure at them is a fake solution!!
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John Bul Racing. Malta.
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Black Dragon
Parking Attendant
Posts: 1
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posted May 14, 2012 08:15 PM
quote:
To what lb of boost are the stock injectors good for? Dubious on the busa as long as you keep the duty cycle below 90-95% no lockup will occure.
Stock injectors are probably good for about as much as you can throw at them the problem is using an open loop system. The only right way to do it is to use a second set with a stand alone ECU that fires with boost and rpm or a good closed loop system that adjust the mapping to keep required AF ratios in check.. Theres no way to map in what you need for boost with just a pc3 because boost occurs with lots of variables outside full throttle dyno pulls. Many try to protect the engine by throwing lots of fuel at it but this kills power and washes the cylinder walls.
Does anybody else here run water injection or an intercooler on there setups?
I run
I run a water meth injection set up from AEM that is very effective. 60% Window washer and 40% Denatured Alcohol. Works better than an intercooler.
Also power wise as well as reliability (I know it's expensive) lower the compression. You can apply more boost safely.
2008 ZX14 making over 400 hp and over 200 ft lbs of torque.
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted May 14, 2012 10:38 PM
quote:
quote:
To what lb of boost are the stock injectors good for? Dubious on the busa as long as you keep the duty cycle below 90-95% no lockup will occure.
Stock injectors are probably good for about as much as you can throw at them the problem is using an open loop system. The only right way to do it is to use a second set with a stand alone ECU that fires with boost and rpm or a good closed loop system that adjust the mapping to keep required AF ratios in check.. Theres no way to map in what you need for boost with just a pc3 because boost occurs with lots of variables outside full throttle dyno pulls. Many try to protect the engine by throwing lots of fuel at it but this kills power and washes the cylinder walls.
Does anybody else here run water injection or an intercooler on there setups?
I run
I run a water meth injection set up from AEM that is very effective. 60% Window washer and 40% Denatured Alcohol. Works better than an intercooler.
Also power wise as well as reliability (I know it's expensive) lower the compression. You can apply more boost safely.
2008 ZX14 making over 400 hp and over 200 ft lbs of torque.
550 rwhp and 300ftlbs stock pistons
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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