JDC
Zone Head
Posts: 570
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posted March 10, 2010 09:08 AM
quote:
Nope, not mine.
I know of another 14 Cyclelogic kit that just burned the pistons this weekend, making 9 psi with no timing pulled.....on pump fuel
I am thinking Bob was right on the money with 5 degree's pulled after 7psi
Just a heads up for anyone else out there
JDC, are you pulling timing on your bike....?
Lyle,
Yes, about 6. Though I've been tempted to throw it towards 0, as Harry said 0 is ok... I'm glad I'm behind my brains power curve by about 1/2 year! LOL
I wasssss thinking of it.....until now!
Tks
Last night I went up the grade from Ontario to the HIgh Desert and back. 37 deg on the return. Bike on the lean (cruise AFR) at 14.2 did great, though my pecker froze and tried to crawl up my arse to get warm.
  
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JDC
Zone Head
Posts: 570
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posted March 10, 2010 09:12 AM
quote:
Finally people are starting to share turbo tuning infomation.
I'm always willing to share.. what little I have or know.
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JDC
Zone Head
Posts: 570
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posted March 10, 2010 09:17 AM
quote:
Most of the lower boost 14 turbo's I've heard of having motor probs seem to have mostly been blown up on a dyno, or had mechanical probs (bad injectors/fuel pumps/fmu's). It seems like dyno tuning your turbo at an iffy shop is the biggest danger of all 
Exactly
Like 1Bad has said, get an afr gauge/data logger along with fuel pressure/boost gauges. And be damn sure you have a dyno tuner who actually knows how to tune a turbo bike .............not some yahoo who "thinks" he can 
Exactly x 2
I'm gonna take the safe base map that came with my kit, and gradually fine tune it myself....with no hard running till its set up/working/running an afr I'm comfy with. There's no local shops I'd trust to to tune a turbo....
and I aint havin' some yahoo blow my bike up, then tell me it was a problem with my bike, and I gotta eat thousands in damages. I've heard that happen to quite a few turbo bikes of all diff makes  
Exactly x3
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johnbull
Expert Class
Posts: 314
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posted March 10, 2010 10:25 AM
Coincidentally I have just come back from the airstrip where we went this afternoon to try the car after 3 days of pulling all the wireing out and checking every single sensor, ECU etc.
The engine did exactly the same as before when you floor the throttle, then I decided to try feeding the throttle slowly and suddenly (basically not loading it).....and no hesitation or misfire at all.......to cut a long story short, the map was Crap!!
So much for paying good money to get the engine mapped properly (or so we thought).
This really pissed me off!!!
____________
John Bul Racing. Malta.
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davej
Expert Class
Posts: 451
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posted March 10, 2010 09:41 PM
Soon to hit 37K miles on the Muzzy Stage 1. Installed at 9.5K miles. Tuner moved to Idaho and looking for a tuner that knows his stuff. Running 7# boost on a pure stock motor with no issues now. Had a surge problem which was traced to the fuel in Utah for winter conditions. If a turbo isn't tuned proper it will eat your motor in a heart beat. So will NOS, maybe that's why Smoking14 hates pressure induced motors.
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Triumph guy
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted March 11, 2010 04:52 AM
there seems to be a lot of negative about the cycle logic kit.
What exactly seems to be the problem with the kit?
Is the turbo too small, reg not working correctly, or something not designed right?
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted March 11, 2010 04:53 AM
there seems to be a lot of negative about the cycle logic kit.
What exactly seems to be the problem with the kit?
Is the turbo too small, reg not working correctly, or something not designed right?
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SteddyTeddy
Pro
Posts: 1664
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posted March 11, 2010 05:36 AM
quote:
Coincidentally I have just come back from the airstrip where we went this afternoon to try the car after 3 days of pulling all the wireing out and checking every single sensor, ECU etc.
The engine did exactly the same as before when you floor the throttle, then I decided to try feeding the throttle slowly and suddenly (basically not loading it).....and no hesitation or misfire at all.......to cut a long story short, the map was Crap!!
So much for paying good money to get the engine mapped properly (or so we thought).
This really pissed me off!!!
I forget are you using the PCIII or the PCV? If the latter you may want to try the new AutoTune.
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted March 11, 2010 08:44 AM
 Edited By: dubious on 11 Mar 2010 18:56
quote:
there seems to be a lot of negative about the cycle logic kit.
What exactly seems to be the problem with the kit?
Is the turbo too small, reg not working correctly, or something not designed right?
cycle logic is too small for much more than 10 psi safely
The regulator has been questionable
Turbo size creates too much heat beyond 10 psi.
It is good for what it was intended for. I would upgrade injectors, 1:1 regulator and go to external wastegate though, so you have more control of AFR, and keep it under 10 psi, pull some timing beyond 7 psi on pump and stock compression
and always... ALWAYS tune with race fuel.
do not trust the map that comes with it as more than a baseline map,
There is no way to turbo cheap imo, ultimatley you pay one way or another.
know the limits of your parts combined, ie turbo curve, and fuel system,
do it right or keep doing it.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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sj1400
Novice Class
Posts: 96
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posted March 11, 2010 11:09 AM
Dubious,
How much timing would you pull with lowered compression using 110 leaded turbo blue ?
I chased gremlins all last year. Although 110 racing gas was used piston #3 still got hosed. The transition to boost is a nightmare - tuner couldn't get it out fully but a proper map helped . Just plain scary in 1st and 2nd at 5500rpm when boost kicks in. Hiccups stumbles then bam.. 3rd gear is more manageable.
Had issues with throttle bodies lifting, oil leaks, etc.. I suspect the regulator..
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dubious
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Posts: 8442
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posted March 11, 2010 01:19 PM
Edited By: dubious on 11 Mar 2010 21:20
I am only going off what information I have absorbed.
Mine should be running by end of April, which is good with me as tracks will be opening here then, and roads should have alot less sand on them.
I have been told a good map 11.5 AFR , stock compression and 112 octane race fuel will handle 10 psi without issue.
on lowered compression probably a about 2-3 psi more.
as for drivability that may have to do with a few factors, like fuel mapping, ignition timing, turbo design.
The smaller the turbo the more peaky the power I have been told.
Mine will be getting a big fat ass GT35, that makes a really smooth broad power band, comes on quick but controlled.
Most guys running GT30 and GT35 are finding they make boost just as early but more progressively, than the peaky smaller ones.
Chris Jones continues to be instrumental to my learning curve, and reaffirming the decisions I have made prior to our conversations too.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Stu64
Zone Head
Posts: 548
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posted March 11, 2010 05:28 PM
Lyle are you saying that 7psi and under on pump gas you don't need to pull timing? Is this stock compression ratio?
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dubious
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posted March 11, 2010 08:56 PM
pm zxbob and ask him what he did with timing stu.
I think it was 5 degree's at 7 psi or more.
The afr and fuel is going to be critical.
Long LSR type runs build allot of heat, so keeping it to 1/4 mile events is allot easier to get away with.
There are really so many variables.
engine temp, egt , ign timing, afr, octane, inlet temp, boost, load on motor, load vs time... etc etc.
each one effects the other and reliability.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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01smokes
Needs a job
Posts: 2243
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posted March 11, 2010 11:56 PM
Edited By: 01smokes on 12 Mar 2010 08:10
Well im on 8psi right now stock timing and on E85 the tune is real fat at 10.8-11.0 under WOT and boost, the set up is 725cc injectors 1:1 regulator and -6 feed and return lines walbro 255 in tank pump
The ridiabillaty is awesome but the transition going in to boost is rough need more tuning on that area it bucks and stumbles but once it breaks thru all hell breaks loose
____________
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dubious
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posted March 12, 2010 06:41 AM
E85 is almost same octane as race fuel, much safer than pump. your tune is very safe as well from sounds of it.
Someone running 12:1 AFR on pump and stock compression no timing pulled and 8 psi would be playing with fire.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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JDC
Zone Head
Posts: 570
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posted March 12, 2010 08:10 AM
I'm at 6 deg pulled, 12.5 AFR when @ max 1/2 atmos, pump premium. Wicks up from 14.2 AFR at 0 PSI (up to 4K), transitions to 13.2 at 4K to 4.5K, and 12.5 at 4.5K (about 2-3) PSI and above. Seems to be working ok so far.
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1badzx12r
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posted March 12, 2010 08:56 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 12 Mar 2010 17:00
playing with fire by just installing a turbo and trying to race it IMHO .. you can add all the precautions and it still goes boom .. and for every precaution you lose hp ..so you find yourself uping the boost or running with stockers .. streetriding and a little on boost here and there i think is easy .. but making 3 back to back passes is not what a turbo can handle .. or being entered into 2 or 3 classes and racing .. so until i SEE SOMEBODY HOT LAPPING A TURBO BIKE and it holds up ..i say fukk a turbo
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dubious
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posted March 12, 2010 09:06 AM
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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01smokes
Needs a job
Posts: 2243
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posted March 12, 2010 04:40 PM
?? for you turbo guys, now that i have a turbo bike and have about 130 miles on it i noticed the lack of heat the bikes makes now, the bike gets to 1 bar and that's it!! I let it sit idling for about 10 min and it finally went to 2 bars but as soon as i started to ride it went back down, does your turbo bikes run way cooler as well??
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Compton
Zone Head
Posts: 969
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posted March 12, 2010 05:13 PM
could be the E85 that is the extra cooling that you are seeing. turbos just add heat
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b.w.
zx14, little longer, little louder, little lower.
08 Busa, just a little longer and louder and lower than the 14
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
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posted March 12, 2010 05:14 PM
quote:
turbos just add heat
x2
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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01smokes
Needs a job
Posts: 2243
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posted March 12, 2010 06:27 PM
quote:
could be the E85 that is the extra cooling that you are seeing. turbos just add heat
Ya i was thinking that but was not sure if the turbo will have it run cooler, i didnt think so but i just wanted to make sure before i said it was the E85
____________
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01smokes
Needs a job
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posted March 12, 2010 06:29 PM
oh and another thing the bike is thirsty on E85 im getting about 10MPG right now but these have all been tuning pulls and mostly WOT and what not im hoping crusing speeds no boost or anything ill be in the high 20s ill report back in the next few weeks
____________
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dubious
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posted March 12, 2010 09:04 PM
well, you need to add about 30% more fuel for E85, so from 30 to 20 MPG for natural aspirated,
turbo...+. fuel mileage? lol
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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johnbull
Expert Class
Posts: 314
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posted March 13, 2010 01:36 AM
quote:
quote:
Coincidentally I have just come back from the airstrip where we went this afternoon to try the car after 3 days of pulling all the wireing out and checking every single sensor, ECU etc.
The engine did exactly the same as before when you floor the throttle, then I decided to try feeding the throttle slowly and suddenly (basically not loading it).....and no hesitation or misfire at all.......to cut a long story short, the map was Crap!!
So much for paying good money to get the engine mapped properly (or so we thought).
This really pissed me off!!!
I forget are you using the PCIII or the PCV? If the latter you may want to try the new AutoTune.
I'm using the PCV and I had the autotune on when I was running the engine normally aspirated and I found the autotune to be very good and easy to use. Now that we are running boost we are using the 0-5V input on the PCV taking an input from the auxhilary map sensor in order to use the boost compensation pressure tables on the PCV software.
Seems to be working fine now that we have removed all the excess fuel that the map was throwing in at lowish revs on WOT. Had the car on a go kart track yesterday and did a good ten laps of hard running without any problems. At low revs under load & WOT it still feels a bit slugish probably because it is still to rich on that part of the map. Hope to be going up again today now that I have hooked up an AFR data logger so that I can see whats happening. Just hope it stops raining!!
____________
John Bul Racing. Malta.
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